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Thread: FFXIII-2: Plot Discussion     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #21
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    Dumping this here from the other topic to keep that story free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzer View Post
    More on the ending:
    Spoiler: show
    I don't think I've ever witnessed an ending as twisted as this one. Serah dies, Mog dies, chaos unleashed, warrior goddess Lightning claims the throne, it's just complete disaster. I felt like the entire story was for nothing. Funny because I never thought of Caius as the true villain, if anyone was to blame it's Etro...and now apparently Lightning.
    Spoiler: show
    Lightning claims no throne, she's simply stoned, "dead" (nothing is really dead in Valhalla as you know) in the chair. Caius' master plan worked, he brought peace for Yeul (or so he thinks, Yeul didn't have problems with the reincarnation) because he killed the goddess by stabbing the heart of Etro in his chest, which was a gift from Etro. Etro's death had a chain reaction effect on Lightning (being the goddess' guardian) which is why she is now stoned.

    Why didn't he stab his own heart at the beginning of the game? Well we know he was looking for other options to stop the suffering for Yeul, could very well be the times we meet him before the last fight was him travelling in time looking for other solutions that didn't involve killing Etro. Or SE just wanted a game that lasted longer than 5 minutes.

    The ending is indeed a complete disaster, the defiance of fate from Vanille and Fang from XIII has been nulled with Caius' plan. The world is fucked, only took 500 years from when Cocoon was supposed to fall in the first place.

  2. #22
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    lol i know what you mean..

    Spoiler: show

    if Lightning is supposed to be a champion protecting Etro, then why does she even fight with Caius if Etro's heart beats in his chest? that part doesn't make sense at all. He has no need to fight her, and technically they should be on the same side otherwise.

    also, if Lightning defeats Caius in Valhalla, does that not mean she's fighting a part of Etro in some ways? there is a huge contradiction at work here.. but perhaps that is something the DLC can explain in more detail.

    i can understand if Caius doesnt decide to kill himself because the time isnt right.. which may probably be the case. its possible he needed someone to change the timeline so that he could bring Valhalla's timelessness to Pulse, which may be why he waited till after Bhunivelze was created through an altered timeline.

    edit: also why did Lightning ask Noel to bring Serah to her and what the hell did that achieve? in ep5 it seemed as if she coulda easily just popped over to visit anyway

  3. #23
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    Spoiler: show
    if Lightning is supposed to be a champion protecting Etro, then why does she even fight with Caius if Etro's heart beats in his chest? that part doesn't make sense at all. He has no need to fight her, and technically they should be on the same side otherwise.
    Yeah they are supposed to be on the same side, but Caius changed sides due to Yeul's so called suffering. I think Lightning was aware of that contradiction once she saw the red glow in his chest, perhaps that is what she needed Serah for by her side to figure out a way to stop this.

    As for Lightning and Serah chatting on Pulse, perhaps Lightning wanted Noel to bring Serah to Valhalla. To show her something?

    Why she doesn't have a chat while Serah is in Valhalla (or even when she sends Odin and holds their hands in the final battle)? No idea, maybe she had faith that Noel's voice of reason would stop Caius from going through with his plan. Which almost did work.

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    Spoiler: show
    Pretty sure Lightning knew she would turn to 'Stone' sooner or later, and the Bring Serah to me, is to see her another time before that.

    When Lightning leaves pulse Serah ask her will i see you again, she answer one thing a time then smiles

  5. #25

    I guess I think about it as Lightning is the manifestation of Etros will and Caius's Etro's heart is the actual Etro's essence.
    I'm probably wrong but here I go.
    So Etro was in Vallhala basically waiting to fade away into nothingness. Than altered the timeline creating Yuel and basically Caius because Guardian + Yuel couldn't exist without each other.
    Therefore, ideal scenario that Etro wanted was for Yuel to be reborn over and over again while Guardian watches and keeps Etro's heart preventing Etro from fading away into nothing.
    However, Caius was unaffected by what Etro wanted and just wanted end Yuels fate and if he stabbed the heart he did that but Etro now is done and gone which she did not wanted to be.
    I guess that's where Lightning comes in saving Noel and getting Sarah so they can save the timeline because that would be the best thing all around.
    Also, in the dying world Caius talks about Noel needing to defeat him and taking his place.
    I guess that would been the ideal situation because Noel could be the new guardian. However, Noel did not want to accept that. When you talk to the Seeres statue I believe they talk about how Heart of Etro can consume weak mind.
    So Noel basically fucks everyone over because he needed to kill Caius and contain the heart of Etro in himself becoming the new guardian since he understand that Yuel doesnt mind being reincarnated. This way the world would be saved.

    Make any sense or am I talking out of my bum?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    Spoiler: show
    Pretty sure Lightning knew she would turn to 'Stone' sooner or later, and the Bring Serah to me, is to see her another time before that.
    Yeah was thinking that as a reason too.

    Than altered the timeline creating Yuel and basically Caius because Guardian + Yuel couldn't exist without each other.
    Your story makes sense except the quote above. Afaik Yeul and Caius were already in existence before the actual timeline was altered (Etro messing around at the ending of XIII, which caused Lightning to get sucked into Valhalla in the first place). Yeul's pain (seeing the fuckload of potential futures) started when Cocoon didn't actually fall. That pain is what set Caius' plan in motion. Pretty much the first paradox, thanks to Etro, who felt sorry for the humans. So in short, Etro fucked herself? =D

    Noel taking Caius' place is actually one of the paradox endings, that paradox ending also explains how it doesn't solve anything.

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    kind of.

    in the Oracle drive vision at Yascha 1X and as mentioned by Lightning, Caius is the one who brings down the crystal pillar in 500AF, which means to say he intended to bring it down to cause catastrophy. it is evident that he does prefer the whole everything destroyed thing but i was under the impression he wouldn't have intervened in the natural course of history...

    now the thing that interests me is how his ideals seem to line up with the events of FFXIII. to what i remember. the Cocoon fal'cie created by Lindzei wanted to call back the maker (not sure if lindzei or bhunivelze) thru the destruction of Cocoon. assumedly, this is because the sheer number of people dying would leave the door of souls/etro's gate open for a long time, or something.

    according to noel, in the true timeline, cocoon collapses in 500af, and humanity pretty much collapses after that, so that effect could still have been there. my question would be how this ties in with Caius. another thing would be the significance of Bhunivelze rising again. FFs love to play on names.. it would seem Bhunivelze's "rise" is more than just symbolic.

    edit: lol i want to say something but now im so confused..

    FFXIII's ending is actually the first 'paradox', created by Etro herself.. but this is 'accepted' to be the true timeline because Etro is the one who set it this way?
    Also, the rule 'change the future, change the past' shd be applying to FFXIII events too.. but i guess there wasn't very much that would have changed.
    Only one we do know is Alyssa was supposed to die during the Purge.. so she's a paradox too..
    i think i'm having trouble sorting which paradox is actually relevant or not

  8. #28
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    Add in the fact Caius' sword is called Ragnarok and the similarities between XIII and XIII-2 become even more. Except now the Ragnarok actually happens.

    Not sure what to answer to this since I don't know what you mean:
    my question would be how this ties in with Caius.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    no.
    Noel already has someone in his heart
    Quote Originally Posted by Exoduso View Post
    No romance between the two at all.

    Awesome, thanks for the replies. :D

  10. #30

    I havent done all the paradox endings and fragments yet so is there an explanation how Snow got a le'Cie mark or how Sazh is in the future or is that just stuff they saving for later?

  11. #31
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    Sazh was brought to the future by Hope. As for Snow's mark, not certain, will probably be explained in some DLC. Might be the idiot needed power so he turned l'Cie again (not as smart as his girlfriend to learn magic on his own).

  12. #32
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    Doesn't Serah have a type of Lcie mark too? When you enter Academia 400 the first time they make a soon to Serah's arm before summoning all the Cieth and it seems like a brand

  13. #33
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    Been thinking about the ending all day and it's driving me nuts. I didn't realize the similarities between Caius/Ragnarok/Bhunivelze/Neo Cocoon until now. Caius is quickly becoming one of my all-time favorite FF villians although I view him more as a victim of circumstance.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    kind of.

    in the Oracle drive vision at Yascha 1X and as mentioned by Lightning, Caius is the one who brings down the crystal pillar in 500AF, which means to say he intended to bring it down to cause catastrophy. it is evident that he does prefer the whole everything destroyed thing but i was under the impression he wouldn't have intervened in the natural course of history...

    now the thing that interests me is how his ideals seem to line up with the events of FFXIII. to what i remember. the Cocoon fal'cie created by Lindzei wanted to call back the maker (not sure if lindzei or bhunivelze) thru the destruction of Cocoon. assumedly, this is because the sheer number of people dying would leave the door of souls/etro's gate open for a long time, or something.

    according to noel, in the true timeline, cocoon collapses in 500af, and humanity pretty much collapses after that, so that effect could still have been there. my question would be how this ties in with Caius. another thing would be the significance of Bhunivelze rising again. FFs love to play on names.. it would seem Bhunivelze's "rise" is more than just symbolic.

    edit: lol i want to say something but now im so confused..

    FFXIII's ending is actually the first 'paradox', created by Etro herself.. but this is 'accepted' to be the true timeline because Etro is the one who set it this way?
    Also, the rule 'change the future, change the past' shd be applying to FFXIII events too.. but i guess there wasn't very much that would have changed.
    Only one we do know is Alyssa was supposed to die during the Purge.. so she's a paradox too..
    i think i'm having trouble sorting which paradox is actually relevant or not
    You just confused me even more haha... Damn this ending.

  15. #35
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    http://andriasang.com/comzvb/ffxiii2_tbc/


    Final Fantasy XIII-2's To Be Continued Explained
    Spoiler alert! Final Fantasy XIII-2 ends with the message "To Be Continued." Is this a hint at a Final Fantasy XIII-3?

    Director Motomu Toriyama was asked about the meaning of the statement during a group interview session following a FFXIII-2 stage event at the Taipei Game Show 2012 event yesterday. The game had just seen the release of its Chinese language version on January 31.

    According to Impress Watch, Toriyama explained that there are a number of reasons they displayed the message at the end of the game. One is that the game has a number of Paradox Endings hidden away, and they want players to first look for all these endings. Another reason is that FFXIII-2's world will be extended through download content, meaning players can expect a long play experience. They plan on continually releasing download content, said Toriyama.

    Toriyama also responded to a question about what's next following XIII-2. He repeated that for XIII-2, download content is continuing to be developed, so until the download content ends he hopes to continue working on the game. He noted that Lightning and Amodar are being added to the game's Coliseum Battle mode in upcoming DLC. Separate from this, they're also preparing a large Lightning Episode.

    This comment about a large Lightning Episode echoes statements Toriyama and producer Yoshinori Kitase have made in interviews with the Japanese media. In Famitsu and the recent XIII-2 Ultimania guide, they hinted that the game would also see episodes for Snow and Sazh, although they did not specifically say that these would be download content, and even mentioned the possibilites of novels and other media.

    Visit Impress Watch for a look at the stage event and interview session. Toriyama, 1st production department corporate executive (and Twitter updater) Shinji Hashimoto and art director Isamu Kamikokuryo also held a signing event.

    During the stage event, Hashimoto was asked by a female fan if Square Enix will release a Chinese language version of the PlayStation Vita version of Final Fantasy X. Hashimoto would only respond that if players support XIII-2, SCE Asia's staff will likely get the message.

  16. #36
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    cool more money

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    im hoping there'll be a host of new DLC episodes..
    the framework for DLC is definitely there in XIII-2 as compared to XIII, especially its timezone/episodic structure.

    it'd be nice if they used it to fill in the gaps for Snow/Sazh/Lightning and so on.
    that said, I like Serah a lot, so I hope we'll still get to play her in story episodes.

  18. #38
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    That is definitely interesting. I think everyone here will agree that XIII-2 had a pretty decent ending, as in, it doesn't feel like they left anything out just to make it DLC. I genuinely feel that XIII-2 was worth the $60 I dropped on it. I'm super excited about the future DLC, I hope they keep it coming. I wonder if they will do some sort of DLC pass like everyone else.

  19. #39

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningthought View Post
    That is definitely interesting. I think everyone here will agree that XIII-2 had a pretty decent ending, as in, it doesn't feel like they left anything out just to make it DLC. I genuinely feel that XIII-2 was worth the $60 I dropped on it. I'm super excited about the future DLC, I hope they keep it coming. I wonder if they will do some sort of DLC pass like everyone else.
    Honestly, I havent had this much fun playing FF since X which is my favorite one. Bring on 13-3 and DLCs, I agree I got my 60 worth.
    As for the ending. If it was not continued I guess I'd be mad but I'm still more than satisfied with what I got. I mean what else can you say about tbc ending..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
    Honestly, I havent had this much fun playing FF since X which is my favorite one. Bring on 13-3 and DLCs, I agree I got my 60 worth.
    As for the ending. If it was not continued I guess I'd be mad but I'm still more than satisfied with what I got. I mean what else can you say about tbc ending..
    Yeah I'm just saying that there was a lot of early pre-release criticism of a TBC ending with future DLC that expands the story. A lot of people were pissed but it wasn't like Square-Enix decided to just abruptly end the story just so they could provide DLC. I think a lot of those early negative reviews and negative feedback were a little unfounded. Especially that picture that listed a bunch of reasons why you shouldn't buy the game, after playing the game you can really see how much bullshit was packed into picture lol.

    On-topic: I kind of wish that Lightning had a bit more screen time, but considering the story is so short, she did play a big role. You might not have physically seen her for 10-15 hours after the intro, but at least she did a lot of narrating. I've been satisfied with all the character's screen time atm. I'm extremely excited to see how Snow got re-branded.

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