FFXIII-2: Plot Discussion

[Spira]

Etro is the goddess of death, but she's also the most important goddess to human beings because according to the legend (which in RPGs is almost always actually fact), Etro basically killed herself because she was lonely and created without purpose, and from her blood humans were born.

in the unseen world, Etro was tasked by Mwynn to restore balance to the universe, after the acts of Bhunivelze caused a surge of chaos to envelop the unseen realm. to balance this, Etro placed a bit of chaos in each human being - that being their hearts. This is one reason why humans have the latent ability to surpass even fal'cie, and where they can draw strength from or something

[Gokulo]

There is a Plot Analyses on Gamefaq's for FFXIII that probably contains more information, about the Fabula Nova Crystalis Legend, that confuses things more. What's more frustrating is that the FNC Legend isn't "set in stone", any game made in that universe is supposed to draw from that legend for inspiration, or something along those lines. i.e: Bhunivelze is the name of the god that created the three original fal'Cie (Pulse, Etro, Lindzei). So, they could have chosen to ignore Bhunivelze being a god, and just used it as a name for the city... But at the same time, if I remember correctly, the stone tablet things in Gran Pulse in 13 also referred to Etro as a death goddess, kind of feared like the grim reaper (even refers to her as Etro the Grim Reaper or something very similar). But somehow, now she's suddenly a good goddess? Lots of things don't really add up >_>

I haven't gotten the paradox endings, or most anything like that, I will probably do a complete play through and get everything in the asia version instead.

She was always feared by "general populace" because they didn't exactly know the truth behind her story.

[Appie]

She was considered the "death goddess" because she resides in the unseen world, where people go when they die. She isn't suddenly a good goddess, she always could have been and seeing how she intervened in the Ragnarok before (500 years before AF) she pretty much made it clear she's good. Irl: people with a religion don't consider God up in heaven bad. Same principle applies here.

edit: woops didn't notice page 6, too slow

[Burningthought]

Etro's is supposed to keep balance in the universe, good or bad doesn't really apply.

[Cichy]

It's pretty much only Etro who cares about what happens to humans. Her and Muin who gave her mission to preserve the balance. Pretty much leaves Pulse, Linzdei, and Bhuinvelze as things that can be confronted in DLCs and 13-3.

[Burningthought]

Just beat the ending for the first time in English, and god the ending is so much more ballin' in English. I really can't wait to see where they take us next story wise. Whether it be DLC or a sequel. This ending definitely had that Epic ending feel that XIII's ending was missing. I felt like it had a lot more closure than XIII did.

I wonder why they decided to localize Buniberzei as Bhunivelze, seems kinda odd. I know that they like to take liberties sometimes when going from Japanese to English and that is definitely expect, but that change and Muin as mywnn or w/e just seems odd.

[Cichy]

So I was reading more into the world and mythology. There are even more reasons for Hope to build the Ark if you look into it. Grand Pulse has fal'Cie that constantly look for gate to Vallhala and they use human to help them by turning them into l'Cie. Therefore, even more reasons to ditch Grand Pulse.

[Spira]

Sounds better IMO.

Kinda like how I think barthandelus sounds more cool than baldanders

[Appie]

I thought this was interesting enough to post here too.

Originally Posted by Leaferian

Originally Posted by Chat Noir
Pretty much.

One thing though, Leaf said something really interesting to me the other day, about Etro's throne being actually Bhunibelze himself. He found out about it in one of the fragments. Do you guys know anything more than this?

- Mentioned in a fragment, Etro's temple was supposedly built to contain some kind of "forgotten enemy". There are other reasons it might've been built, but this is the last reason given so it has the feel of almost telling us something important.
- Another fragment mentions that inside of crystals, there are worlds of dreams. Out of all the crystal dreams, Bhunivelzes heart is the one that shines the brightest. It claims that the Crystal Dreams are all located within the Unseen World.
- We discover through a combination of Fragments (Such as Chaos Brand) and scenes that the Heart of Chaos inside Caius' chest is where the Goddess sleeps, not on/n the throne at her temple as previously believed.
- For some reason, it is still the Goddess' will that Lightning protect her temple. As chaos actually permeates the entirety of the Unseen World and we know Etro is keeping most of it tied up with her (therefore inside of Caius), we can be reasonably certain that Chaos is not in the temple. If Etro isn't there, Chaos isn't there, and the buildings are unimportant (See; Opening Scene) then what could possibly be worth guarding if not the sleeping soul of Bhunivelze, trapped in crystal?


Remember also that Bhunivelze has no way to wake himself up. He tasked Lindzei to awaken him when the time came, and to defend his crystal form from attack. But Pulse and Lindzei left the two worlds a long time ago, possibly to other planets given that they aren't on Gran Pulse, Cocoon, or the in the Unseen World. There would have been nothing to stop Etro from retrieving Bhunivelze's body, and even if she left it where it was if the dream worlds of crystal ARE in the Unseen World she could basically be keeping his soul asleep forever.

taken from: http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/...&postcount=429

I don't have all the fragments yet that mention this, but could this be what Lightning is protecting with her crystal ass? Sealing away a bigger enemy? So the future still has a chance?

[Burningthought]

That's really interesting I'm going to have to take a closer look at the fragment descriptions.

[Cichy]

That would make alot of sense. Bhunivelze was pissed at Muin thinking that she cursed the seen world with mortality. If the seen world becomes like Valhalla there will be no longer life or death which may cause him to wake up. Like the poster said, he was asleep in a crystal and that maybe what Etro's throne is resting on.

[Spira]

It's plausible..
Tho one thing I would like to note is that chaos doesnt come from Etro, she simply managed it.

The crystal throne thing would explain a lot of things if it were truly Bhunivelze in crystal stasis. It's entirely possible that not even Lightning realizes this. I'd imagine if the crystal of Bhuni was that important to Etro she'd want to safeguard it - but whatever from is a question because it takes someone familiar with the mythos to know what everything is.

There is very little mention of Bhunivelze at all to begin with, but then again there was nearly no mention of Etro in XIII either. I think it's significance is pretty huge if they're naming the new ark that. I hope they elaborate more in a future DLC episode

[Burningthought]

I wonder what Bhuni will do now that the real world and valhalla have merged, is he trying to find or bring back the maker? He obviously doesn't like Etros so he will definitely be on the evil side.

Now that I think about it did new cocoon transform into the throne or was it something else?

[Spira]

Isn't Bhuni the maker himself?
He did create the 3 gods after all.
I do wonder tho, if Etro is still alive, then where is Pulse and Lindzei?
I used to think Barthandelus was Lindzei but the ultimania disproves this. At the very least he represents Lindzei's champion because he's the lord of cocoon fal'cie after all.

[Cichy]

Muin is the beginning technically but I believe when they refer to summoning the maker they refer to Bhuni. Pulse and Lindzei went beyond seen and unseen world wherever that is. And so did Muin I guess.

[Spira]

Well mwynn was bhuni's mom but she didn't really make anything and as far we know mwynn should already be dead because she was dying when she first met Etro and tasked her with taking care of chaos in the unseen world.

It doesn't make sense if Bhuni in crystal was in unseen world because before he slept he tasked pulse to find the door to this world no?

[Cichy]

Well mwynn was bhuni's mom but she didn't really make anything and as far we know mwynn should already be dead because she was dying when she first met Etro and tasked her with taking care of chaos in the unseen world.

It doesn't make sense if Bhuni in crystal was in unseen world because before he slept he tasked pulse to find the door to this world no?

Makes sense, nvm my statement

[Crab_Cake]

Edit NVM again >.>.

[Burningthought]

Makes sense, nvm my statement

No no, your statement still stands, I was thinking the same exact thing earlier, but at the end the unseen world starts to appear in the mortal world. Shortly after that we see Lightning in her crystal form. Another thing is we don't know the continuum for Valhalla events since the way time works there. Maybe Etro used the last bit of her power to keep Bhunivelze is his crystal sleep.

Maybe not too, maybe there is something bigger than those three Gods lurking in that Throne. It has to be something big otherwise Etro's and Lightning wouldn't be doing all this shit to protect it.

[Cichy]

It talks about the dream world in one of those fragments and so maybe those gods have found it. Maybe, knowing that Etro kept Bhun in there placing the crystal in fortress she built with her own hands.