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  1. #2161
    Salvage Bans
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    How viable is thf in neo now that everyone is more used to it?

  2. #2162
    Absolute Messenger of Promathia
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    Roughly as valuable as any other second rate DD with no remarkable feature or uses beyond being a decent DD, that can easily be replaced with something that puts out more damage. if I'm not mistaken, Most of your floor 100 Armor will come from the Key Item. The drops are nice and all buuuutttt... Consistently hitting floor 100 more often > Effects of TH.

  3. #2163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurell View Post
    I'm confused. I haven't followed this thread since very early on, so maybe I'm missing something, but are you saying higher floor jumps are impossible over 90?


    We are doing about 16 floors a run, but again, it was our first serious attempt (2 SCHs) and my gear is pretty gimped atm. If we can get 1-2 100 clears a run, I would be very happy with that. You get at least 1 piece every single 100 clear with the new KI thing, no? I don't mind doing this for 2-3 months to get people 15 pieces of gear lol.
    Think it was shown post F90 if you go up random number of floors and that jump would have taken you over F100 pre patch, instead you go up a lower number of floors.

  4. #2164
    First invited, last in the zone.
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    Yeah, essentially if you're @ Floor 92 or higher, the range of jumps is 2-(100-floor you're on), rather than 2-9.

    So because the maximum jump is lower, the average jumps are lower too.

  5. #2165
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Yeah, Jem explained it pretty clearly, but to rehash -- if you're within 8 floors of your ultimate target, the ??? rolls 2-9 randomly and if it would overshoot the target it re-rolls repeatedly until it comes in on a floor at or below the target (overshooting does not place you on the boss floor automatically). If you were at 95 and it would have bumped you up 6-9 floors, it will reroll. So, for example, if you are on floor 97, the probability of you getting to F100 on a ??? jump is not 7/8, it's 1/2 because 99 and 100 are the only possible values and surpassing 100 forces a reroll. Similarly, 1/3 from F96, 1/4 from F95, etc.

  6. #2166
    A. Body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurell View Post
    I'm confused. I haven't followed this thread since very early on, so maybe I'm missing something, but are you saying higher floor jumps are impossible over 90?

    The game rerolls anytime the roll puts you over 100. So if you are on floor 96 the game will keep rolling until it hits a 2,3 or 4. So after clearing floor 96 you only have a 33% chance of hitting 100.

    22 clear 99 time out last night....couldn't have done any better and still didn't get the win. We were like 91 > 95 > 97 > 99.

  7. #2167
    Black Belt
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    Ah, thanks for explaining.

  8. #2168
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    Is that re-roll thing the case for just 100 or whatever level you put the stopper at? I assume the latter.

  9. #2169

    Quote Originally Posted by pancakesandsex View Post
    Is that re-roll thing the case for just 100 or whatever level you put the stopper at? I assume the latter.
    I would be truly shocked if it was not the case for whatever floor you put the stopper on.

  10. #2170

    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    If by content you mean content in the knowledge that you used some amount of third-party tools and dat modifications to subvert an intentionally nearly impossible system of luck-upon-luck to obtain the armor, then sure. I'm not on the attack here, I'm just saying that the event was obviously not designed with this in mind, which is why my general feelings toward it are more frustrated than contented. If I was able to score F100 armor on an even occasional basis (say, 1/10) without using third party tools, I'd be more than satisfied with the event. But as I've said repeatedly, and perhaps I'm the only person in this entire thread who is doing Nyzul with a group not using third party tools/dat mods, it just doesn't happen.
    Yes, that is exactly what I mean by content; I have absolutely zero qualms using tools such as .dats/fillmode that are completely or at least nearly completely undetectable to tip the odds in my favor in a game where one of the underlying premises is to suck up as much of my time as humanly possible without making me get frustrated enough to quit. You refuse to use some of the more tame versions of these tools(.dats) for one reason or another, and lo and behold--you are banging your head against the wall. I can completely understand not wanting to clipper due to the risk of being banned, and although if I had to foster a guess--I might say that you don't want to use any tools at all because you want to complete the content in its natural form without resorting to means beyond what the programmers intended. Again though, one of their intentions IS to waste as much of our time as possible. If you feel like things such as lamp order floors are "run killers" and are completely unbalanced/unfair, then choose to only use lamp dats; its really that simple. Make the corrections that SE refuses to make for you, because it really would be best for you to get some relaxing enjoyment out of the game as opposed to the frustrations you are clearly feeling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Actually if they wanted to make it COMPLETELY fair, they would never have added gear as good as Thaumas/Nares/Phorcys to a luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-(...)-based event such as Nyzul. Shoulda been in Legion or something.
    Imo at least, the luck factor isn't any more retarded than any other NM/event that has ever existed. The only difference is that now the luck factor is more "up in your face". Instead of gathering full groups of people to get VW clears, to gain access to mobs that actually drop shit, and then killing said mobs that drop shit dozens or hundreds of times while hoping to get lucky with a low, low drop rate, you are now encountering the luck component via the floor jumps in an attempt to reach a mob that you only have to kill once for a 100% key item that can be exchanged any item you want, on top of the fact that everyone in the party gets one . We also can't forget that if we add shit like this to a non-VW type event, you also have the pleasure of trying to outlot the 17 or 35 other people in your group, on top of hoping for the drop. The extra luck factor in nyzul that is beyond "how good you are at this game" is not much different than everything else we do, it is just in a different form that we can actually count via floor jumps, and actively calculate how much of a dicking we are taking from this game.

    I guess the bottom line really is, if you can end up being okay with just swapping a few dats, I would really like to think that you could enjoy yourself quite a bit more--which at the end of the day is all that really matters.

  11. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardeniii View Post
    Imo at least, the luck factor isn't any more retarded than any other NM/event that has ever existed. The only difference is that now the luck factor is more "up in your face".
    I guess what I meant to say was that for this new Nyzul, the luck factor is the challenge. There is really no challenge beyond that (no difficult fights, no accumulated progress requirement, etc.). And when I said completely fair, I meant not just in context of the event itself, but in context of the event balanced with the rest of the game. I don't think many people would argue that the three sets from F100 are probably the best equipment in the game, bar-none, for what they do. To have people going in with a slew of third party tools and coming out with 3 or 4 pieces of that equipment after 2 hours renders the majority of the rest of the game almost idiotic to partake in by comparison. Likewise, to make the challenge to get those best-in-game pieces completely revolve around luck and killing EP/DC mobs was a really poor design choice.

  12. #2172

    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    To have people going in with a slew of third party tools and coming out with 3 or 4 pieces of that equipment after 2 hours renders the majority of the rest of the game almost idiotic to partake in by comparison. Likewise, to make the challenge to get those best-in-game pieces completely revolve around luck and killing EP/DC mobs was a really poor design choice.
    Very good points. I will also certainly agree with another of your previous statements about if "the floor 80 gear was actually the final reward" then the gear wouldn't be nearly as imbalanced between events. And yeah, the majority of the times that I have looked at the legion/new abjuration gear, I have compared those items to the nyzul gear and thought "wow, that shit is so absurdly underpowered and a complete waste of time."

    I am still quite curious though to see the first person augment his or her HQ hexed gear and find out just how much wind resist those pieces can go up to.

  13. #2173

    The only problem with the HQ gear is that we probably won't see any of them for a LONG time. Getting to 110 skill takes a lot of money. Even if you manage to snag yourself a -1 piece with the corresponding abjuration, now you have to farm Abdhaljs's Honor which is dropped somewhere in Legion. Not to mention all the crap augments you have to go through to get a good augment.

  14. #2174
    Cerberus
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    In summation, legion is fail and so is neo-nyzul

  15. #2175
    Ridill
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    You probably wont see HQs for alot of the the hexed until they add alot more recipes and probably still not much till they raise the cap. Alot of crafts not only is it tons of money (were talking hundreds of millions to billions) but there just isn't enough materials to even do more than a couple of synths let alone actually skillup to 110.

    Heres to hoping they don't take another great event and fuck it up *cough* limbus *cough*

  16. #2176
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    Quote Originally Posted by agerknux View Post
    The only problem with the HQ gear is that we probably won't see any of them for a LONG time. Getting to 110 skill takes a lot of money. Even if you manage to snag yourself a -1 piece with the corresponding abjuration, now you have to farm Abdhaljs's Honor which is dropped somewhere in Legion. Not to mention all the crap augments you have to go through to get a good augment.
    Its not even just that it costs a lot of gil to get a craft to 110, its that for many crafts materials are still very rare to skill up. This leads to the expense as well as the speed of skilling up, so again, don't expect the -1 cursed gear to show up much. We're back to the T0 days of Armadaberks, the only difference is that we're facing sidegrades or in many cases shiny town gear compared to neo nyzul gear once set bonuses are factored in.

    So HQ abjuration in the past=best gear in that slot available for most pieces
    HQ abjuration now= situational, and destroyed by their "luck based" event where they envisioned lv80 was rare, and getting lv100 gear was almost a mistake.

    edit: beaten by dasva.

  17. #2177
    Relic Horn
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    When I can understand people complaining about NEO NI for many reason I want to laugh when someone is writing that it was much better in old days.
    Lucky factor in NEO NI is bad? It was several times worse in Salvage. Ppl for some reason have problem with luck factor being placed at floor jumps instead of drop rate even that after all Neo NI have much much better access to gear than salvage.

    Abjurations were better? NI favors cheaters? What can I say about camping kings then? W/o claim bot you wasnt even able to claim 99% of the time and of top of that you was cheating against other ppl.

    Old NI was good? It was very very easy. IF they would leave it as it was and put super gear to it then you will end up with 1% drop rate from bosses.

    Random factor in NeoNI is at least much more exciting. You fight with running time and there is a lot adrenaline and emotions linked with it. May it be anger from bad jumps or happines from opposite it entertains you for whole 30 min. Random involved in low drop rate is exciting for a sec and whole event is fucking boring.

    Some ppl seriously have short memory or fucked up point of view.

  18. #2178

    Old problems don't justify new ones.

  19. #2179
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Old problems don't justify new ones.
    Thats why I wrote that first sentence in my post.

  20. #2180

    HNM didn't force people to bot to claim a monster, it forced them to bot because they wanted to be sure to claim. There is a huge difference.

    If you go to Dragon's Aery in 2006, you are able to target and claim a monster, the game mechanics don't block you from doing so. When you go in Nyzul right now and try to reach F100, you start with a huge handicap given by the game itself.

    That's the difference, there is no short memory or whatever, the design of this event is bad, as was HNM's one, but in a different way, where player competition has 0 impact on the fact that you have to cheat the shit out of it to manage to get a "decent" result.

    I rather have a low drop rate, meaning I am sure to get my drop one day than not being able to reach what drops what I want, meaning I might never get it, ever.
    First is Salvage, second is Nyzul. Give me Salvage back.

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