Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[boo]

Here we go again...... arguing about fillmodes, flee hacks, what's next? claim bots?

[Yugl]

Here we go again...... arguing about fillmodes, flee hacks, what's next? claim bots?

Nope, it's going to be an argument about other people arguing. How dare you have a contentious opinion!

[boo]

Nope, it's going to be an argument about other people arguing. How dare you have a contentious opinion!

People play the game to entertain themselves, not to impress you.
who the hell are you? lolz

[Fievel]

People play the game to entertain themselves, not to impress you.

That's where they get it wrong.

[Yugl]

who the hell are you? lolz

So you have complaints. Boo who.

[Sho]

Yugl, don't you use Spellcast? You really can't have an opinion about others using fillmode or clipper if you do.

People use things to make their time easier in this game. Windower, Spellcast, fillmode, Allseeingeye, Mappy, AltanaCubby/Lootbox, FFACE, fleebots, fishbots, POS hacks. FFXIAH & Guildwork are also 3rd party websites that give players an edge over others. Who gives a fuck? You do you, and let them do them.

You niggas will argue over the stupidest shit.

[Yugl]

Yugl, don't you use Spellcast? You really can't have an opinion about others using fillmode or clipper if you do.

People use things to make their time easier in this game. Windower, Spellcast, fillmode, FFACE, fleebots, fishbots, POS hacks. FFXIAH & Guildwork are also 3rd party websites that give players an edge over others. Who gives a fuck? You do you, and let them do them.

You niggas will argue over the stupidest shit.

I probably use more shit than most people here. The debate isn't about the ethics of cheats; the only ones that make such a claim are those that jump into the discussion and assume it's the old debate revisited. It's about the necessity of cheats to clear Neo-Nyzul. As it stands, no one has reached or surpassed floor 100 without cheats. Consequently, it makes the event analogous to AV in that the only close attempts have depended on breaking the system (Whether justified or not is unimportant). Jem's group has tried to break this claim by doing a few runs without cheats and that is what sparked the more recent debate on cheats. I submitted that floor 80 is achievable through their achievement, but I retain doubts about floor 100 aside from obscenely benign floor jumps and objectives. Notice that I'm not alone in pointing out the benefits of cheating; however, people feel comfortable picking me out of the crowd.

As a concluding remark, I agree that cheating is cheating. However, to infer from this that all cheating confers the same benefit is a truly remarkable display of ignorance.

[Septimus]

I probably use more shit than most people here. The debate isn't about the ethics of cheats; the only ones that make such a claim are those that jump into the discussion and assume it's the old debate revisited. It's about the necessity of cheats to clear Neo-Nyzul. As it stands, no one has reached or surpassed floor 100 without cheats. Consequently, it makes the event analogous to AV in that the only close attempts have depended on breaking the system (Whether justified or not is unimportant). Jem's group has tried to break this claim by doing a few runs without cheats and that is what sparked the more recent debate on cheats. I submitted that floor 80 is achievable through their achievement, but I retain doubts about floor 100 aside from obscenely benign floor jumps and objectives. Notice that I'm not alone in pointing out the benefits of cheating; however, people feel comfortable picking me out of the crowd.

As a concluding remark, I agree that cheating is cheating. However, to infer from this that all cheating confers the same benefit is a truly remarkable display of ignorance.

To reiterate, this isn't a question of ethics. It is about two things. First, "can people reach 100 legitimately on a regular basis?" Second "is this good game design?" Not sure about the former, pretty sure we all can answer the latter.

[arus2001]

You seem to be under the impression that SE has the resources to release content as fast as you want it, or that all of our combined bitching together would at all change the priorities of the company to give SE the means to meet your demands.

I can think of a few hundred thousand reasons suggesting SE has the resources. However, as long as there are apologists out there like you who settle for the least possible effort, then of course we'll get shitty content.

[Jem]

If they are not necessary then don't bother using them.

Pretty much what Sho said. Spellcast isn't necessary for anything in game. Nor are the multitude of windower plugins people use. So should everyone stop using them too?

Can people reach 100 legitimately? Yes. Can they do it on a regular basis? No. Which is exactly how SE said they wanted it to be whether people like it or not.

Is it good damge design? Well that's subjective. For me personally Nyzul is great fun. There's nothing else in game atm that I enjoy more and there's very few events from the past I have enjoyed as much.

[Deader2818]

Nyzul is prob fun because there isn't much else to do in the game atm. That's the sad part of it all.

[fantasticdan]

Fillmode turns the map to a wireframe, and allows you to target things through the wall in the process. Though you still run into the walls (and will spend a lot of time doing it if you use it non-stop in nyzul)

This is where noclip comes in.

Seriously, set movement speed to +100%, maintenance flag and ja0wait on, with fillmode, lamp dat swaps, and apradar, and you will be running through all walls at flee speed, with 0 slow down from using spectral jig/etc, be able to see/check lamps/mobs from max draw distance, see them on radar from even father, and be able to ignore lamp puzzles. The fact that (near) perfectly geared players using all of these tools are still only barely able to reach/pass 100 with a lot of luck, should tell you what chance legit players have.

[Jem]

Essentially you need to average 18 clears with average porter luck (5.5 jumps per port) to reach 100 after a stopper is added. Plus time to kill the boss.

[noodles355]

Since it's 4 am, and you think I'm not worth it, I'm just going to quote what byrth said quite well that applies pretty much to your entire post, and as you can see from some of the replies I'm not the only one who thinks your statements are ludicrous.

You realise the points you quoted from byth I already addressed:
Fillmode will save you about 30 seconds on a Spec. 1 floor if there's monsters within 45" and you find the ITG one. If it's a large floor with no monsters within 45" of rune, it wont save you any time. If the ITG mob is one of the few mobs in the first room reachable from lamp, it also wont save any time. You greatly over-estimate just how much time fillmode saves you. It is a convenience. It helps improve your performance a small amount. Guess what, so does spellcast. The means in which they improve your performance is different, but the end result of slightly increased performance is the same. I mean fuck, I bet spellcast auto-swapping in Fajin Boots after disengaging saves me more time per run on average than fillmode.

I don't disagree with Yugl, Septimus and all the others who say it is bad game design that cheats are needed at all to complete the content. I just disagree with people like you thinking that fillmode is some super magic tool and that it's somehow worse than any other form of cheating.

I can think of a few hundred thousand reasons suggesting SE has the resources.

Go on then. The company's stock price has pretty much halved over the last 4 years, they have had to resort to finding an outside company to manage player registration fees and their next big proposed cash cow (FF14) was a total flop. Hiring more workers to increase productivity on FFXI, a 10 year old game with a relatively small fanbase, is hardly a good financial decision. We could argue whether moving developers back from FF14 to FF11 would be wise because that is debatable, but I'm fairly sure they've stated they wont do that so it would be a waste of time.

So please, a few hundred thousand reasons why you think SE has the resources available and can justify using them on FFXI.

I'm not an apologist, I'm a realist.

[InsaniacTHF]

Looks like it's gonna be 25 clears of 80 to pick a F100 item. Kinda high but oh well.

[arus2001]

Advocating FFXI players suffer because other ventures in the company flop? Okay. What's realistic is those things being the parasites upon the resources that could be used toward XI to make it a better and more profitable game. Age alone is not reason enough for XI's subscriber-base to decline. It's doing things like they've been doing lately, or the the abyss that was 2007-2009, also a similar drought of poor and lacking content. SE's got a lot more competition now. Doesn't matter if you think the other competition's shit, it draws others away all the time and the money from the hardcores is no more golden than the casuals, save those who opt to hold multiple accounts. People won't come back, people won't stay the more they feel SE is just phoning it in and not trying. Nyzul, Voidwatch, and WoE have all had giant flaws players have been pointing out to SE since day one. And just because they're looking at something in particular now doesn't mean it'll be enough. Even Legion risks being retarded with specific drops from inside not being available via Legion currency. Why are people pissed? Needless restrictions and shitty randomization. Game. Not job. Game. Some scrub on another server getting some drop in a reasonable amount of time is not the FFXI apocalypse.

Looks like it's gonna be 25 clears of 80 to pick a F100 item. Kinda high but oh well.

Definitely too high. Here's to hoping the JPs bitch enough to get it lowered to at least 10.

[Jem]

25 is too high really if they intend on implementing that system. I think 15 would probably be an okay-ish figure. 2-3 weeks per 100 piece with +3's to tide you by in the mean time is reasonable.

[loyaltrekie]

Looks like it's gonna be 25 clears of 80 to pick a F100 item. Kinda high but oh well.

Isn't that well over 4 months of tags to get the full set? <.<

[arus2001]

25 x 5 = 125 runs. So yeah, little over 4 months with more if your group happens to not get 80 consistently or you don't do nyzul every day, or at least 3-4 days if non-captain.

[Slycer]

25 is too high really if they intend on implementing that system. I think 15 would probably be an okay-ish figure. 2-3 weeks per 100 piece with +3's to tide you by in the mean time is reasonable.

How is that high? You're choosing not to target 100 which means in the time that you're collecting those F100 key items you're probably going to get a ton of +3 gear (even average at 1/kill that's 25 pieces), which is mostly very good in its own right. Remember they also said they were going to add something to F100, if they went with this system, which would let you pick your armor with just one clear (plus the gamble could theoretically have even more if drops actually come from the boss as well). So basically you're taking a "sure thing" which will take 25 clears vs. a gamble which will take 1 clear. I think I like the risk vs. reward. The stopper makes all the difference.

Once you are saturated with F80 gear, I think the gamble for F100 will actually make far more sense than the 25 clears of F80. As you said above, 5.5 clears average would take 18 floors, but my group has seen our average floors per jump fluctuate between like 4 and 6.5+ depending on luck. On one of those lucky runs you only need 15 clears to get to F100, with a stopper in place, (approximately the same as the average clears to get to F80 on a normal run) and I'm fairly certain those lucky runs will happen more frequently than once per 25 runs. I'm not in their heads, but I doubt that, long term, they want people spamming F80 for F100 gear. Defeats the purpose of the existence of the higher floors. Assuming this is BARANCED correctly, I think it will also be more fun, long term, to take the gamble at F100 rather than just doing F80 over and over and over day in and day out. I'm guessing F100 has linen, too.

Edit: Anyway, where did that 25 F80 for one F100 piece info come from?