Mists of Pandaria Beta

[Meresgi]

Spoiler: show

Your previous post sounded like you were saying that you will be pissed at Blizzard when someone is going to waste a piece that you wanted. At least, that's what I got from it, and it's what I addressed.


I don't understand why you say it's "worse" if nobody can pass. Most players are complaining that people roll regardless of the item being useful or not to their classes. If 10 rolls on an item that only 5 "need", the chance of getting the gear you "need" is actually lowered. In the end, you will end up with the same amount of loot, but it will be shit that you didn't really want. It's particularly true if a premade group decide to gank your loot, if people loot on everything to exchange it..etc

If you're assuming that your chance is increased because more people get geared...this is right..partially, but keep in mind they will stop farming LFR once they get geared, and will be replaced by someone who need gears. In the end, the acquisition rate is probably pretty constant after the first couple of week.


If Blizzard decide that your chance of winning a specific slot is 1/25, then yes, it's probably slightly worse statistically, but it still is a lot less frustrating than to know that some fucker stole your loot to vendor it. However, they could make it slightly higher to represent the current rate of acquisition and call it a day.

Again, all speculation because it's early beta and everything can change...buuuuut. It IS worse. Yes most people roll on stuff right now in LFR to just vendor or trade at the end, but this system doesn't even allow the people who would actually pass to do just that. Can items still be traded after won in LFR in MoP? I don't know..but hopefully.

And yes, I would be annoyed at the system if say I went into a LFR with 5 other DKs and no other plate wearers (don't ask) and every other DK had the plate helm I needed, it drops and it goes to DK 2-5 and they can't trade it to me, or don't want to because they are dicks or w/e reason...why would I not be pissed by that? It's the same as being pissed when you see someone roll on your shit right now, examine them, and see that they have the item already, or a regular or heroic version of the item.

[The Stig]

MoP LFR items cannot be traded, as stated in the blog/article.

According to the blog/article, it basically means you can be pissed at Blizzard, instead of the player. Which is the intention, and as you pointed out a few posts ago.

This removes drama as no one can do anything about it.

Either way in the end it mostly works out the same. I don't think I've ever been in a group where people would pass items for people.

So now we cannot be angry about:

1. Someone rolling need when they already have it, and vendoring it
2. Someone rolling need to trade it to a friend
3. "Offspec" rolls. I.e. the healer neck and shield from LFR going to DPS because it can also be classified as a DPS item

Either way everything works out the same anyway, as the loot pool is random (except invisible this time), and so is your roll. Before, you'll see the item you want or not, now it's invisible (random), and then you'll roll, and lose or win.

EDIT: I guess the best analogy is:

A slot machine where you cannot see the rolling pictures. It's blacked out. You just kill a boss, which gives you a coin to insert into this slot machine, which allows you one spin.

[Ardrial]

You seem to misunderstand. There is no passing. There is no magical four pieces of loot that's there. You "roll" and if you roll high enough you win something from that boss. It's not picking from 4 random chosen pieces like it does now. Now: Boss dies. 4 random pieces drop. Then: Boss dies. If your roll is high enough you win something. If not, you don't. Passing has nothing to do with it.

[Clash Perez]

God, I left FFXI to get away from Voidwatch and its ilk, and now Blizzard basically adopts the same looting scheme (plate drops intact, minus logs).

Admittedly it's an improved version, but it's still going to be deflating when I end up with the fourth hand token that someone else could put to good use.

[fantasticdan]

God, I left FFXI to get away from Voidwatch and its ilk, and now Blizzard basically adopts the same looting scheme (plate drops intact, minus logs).

Admittedly it's an improved version, but it's still going to be deflating when I end up with the fourth hand token that someone else could put to good use.

This is only for LFR groups.

[Meresgi]

It's an awful idea and does nothing to address the current issues then sadly. If they just set it up to search the player for the item ID first, and force them to pass if they had it, it would be fine. All items have an ID associated with them anyways, how hard would it be to run a cross reference on the player's bag/character/bank and check.

[aurik]

It's a much better system for LFR.
* There is no longer the incentive to votekick people on particular token/gear because they no longer provide competition on that gear.
* There is no longer the incentive to stack your group with particular classes to have more rolls at the item your group is looking for.
The only thing you're losing is the ability to buy/trade for a desired item that dropped and was won by someone else. But know what? Raid gear is not meant to be bought and sold. You just go and, if you get lucky, you end up with spec-appropriate gear. Otherwise you get a consolation prize of gold.

[BadKarma]

I want my fucking invite RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Odon]

It's also going to fuck those high end guilds who planned on running LFR before their normal raid as a group
that wanted to funnel all the tokens/drops they possibly can to their tanks and healers before going off to the actual normal modes.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[Meresgi]

I still don't see how people can say it was unfair that guilds did that though. Sure the exploiting means were not legit, but just running a LFR before raid each week to get those set bonuses and what not didn't do anything detrimental to the raiding environment as a whole.

[Kaylia]

Spoiler: show

Again, all speculation because it's early beta and everything can change...buuuuut. It IS worse. Yes most people roll on stuff right now in LFR to just vendor or trade at the end, but this system doesn't even allow the people who would actually pass to do just that. Can items still be traded after won in LFR in MoP? I don't know..but hopefully.

And yes, I would be annoyed at the system if say I went into a LFR with 5 other DKs and no other plate wearers (don't ask) and every other DK had the plate helm I needed, it drops and it goes to DK 2-5 and they can't trade it to me, or don't want to because they are dicks or w/e reason...why would I not be pissed by that? It's the same as being pissed when you see someone roll on your shit right now, examine them, and see that they have the item already, or a regular or heroic version of the item.

They already said that items can't be traded. It's the same as random bags rewards that you get from low level dungeon (except that every gears will match your spec).


Being unlucky can be frustrating, but I still don't understand why you would be pissed at the system itself. The only difference is that you get a static drop rate this time, instead of one that fluctuate depending of the groups composition and griefing.

You're not going to see "less gears", unless they decide the current system is too generous, so why does it matter?

It's an awful idea and does nothing to address the current issues then sadly. If they just set it up to search the player for the item ID first, and force them to pass if they had it, it would be fine. All items have an ID associated with them anyways, how hard would it be to run a cross reference on the player's bag/character/bank and check.

What? It address pretty much every issues, unless you just want a better chance at winning item, but this is completely arbitrary until they give us the new probabilities.

Secondly, what you're proposing doesn't address half of the griefing you see.
-Trading loot to friends
-Rolling on item that are vastly inferior for their class (ie: someone with vial and spine's trinket rolling on Warmaster trinket, someone with "normal mode piece" looting in LFR)
-Random kick vote to get ride of people rolling against you
-All kind of drama related to people not performing well and "winning" against them.

Basically, your solution solved almost nothing except people rolling on duplicate, which is only a mere fraction of the roll you see.

[Ardrial]

You still don't get it. You are not rolling on specific items. You are rolling on whether or not you win *something.* Passing doesn't matter. For example: If there's something you want and i don't need from the same boss. And let's say you don't roll high enough to win anything. If I could "pass" on my roll then I would not get any loot at all and you wouldn't either. Passing does not matter. If we both roll and both have a "winning" roll. Then we both get the item. Whether or not I needed it or not.

[Meresgi]

If you both roll and both having a winning roll? What does that mean? What entails "winning" the loot? See that's where i'm misinterpreting this system then.

So when a boss dies, all 25 people get an internal roll, out of those the top 3 or 4 are "winners" and then loot is assigned to them from the bosses table? I can see how that would work if every boss had at least 1 item each class could use. Though to me there is still the chance for people to win items over and over again. You could technically, using DS here, go into the raid to kill Morchok and win his tanking shoulders every single run even though you have them already.

That was the issue I was talking about, correct me if i'm wrong on that.

Secondly, what you're proposing doesn't address half of the griefing you see.
-Trading loot to friends
-Rolling on item that are vastly inferior for their class (ie: someone with vial and spine's trinket rolling on Warmaster trinket, someone with "normal mode piece" looting in LFR)
-Random kick vote to get ride of people rolling against you
-All kind of drama related to people not performing well and "winning" against them.

Items would still not be tradeable, so #1 wouldn't work.
The system as I can see would still technically have #2? If a rogue had vial and Spine trinkets, the game would still roll for him on Blackhorns?
as far as #3, how is this addressed in the new system? can't you still technically do this? Or is kicking just not allowed now?
Will performance be graded now for #4? Will our rolls receive bonuses based on damage/healing/damage taken etc etc? If not, that will always be an issue and there really is no cure for it.

[Ardrial]

Let's say we are both tanks and we both "win" the roll. If that boss has only one tanking item then both tanks would win the same item. And yes if I'm a tank and I get the only tank item from a boss I can get the only tank item from that boss every week. However that has no bearing on the other tank getting the tank item too. My winning an item NO WAY affects the other peoples wins.

This is how I'm reading it.

[Kaylia]

If you both roll and both having a winning roll? What does that mean? What entails "winning" the loot? See that's where i'm misinterpreting this system then.

They are still not sure how it will be computed, but what they proposed was
-Give 4 (or more) players out of 25 an equipment reward.
-Everyone make a single roll against a static % to see if they win.

In both case, it's a number that can easily be tuned to reflect the drop rate they want, and nobody's actions is going to affect it. You won't care about the raid composition (too many looting on the same shit), and all that matter is going how successful the group is going to be.

Items would still not be tradeable, so #1 wouldn't work.
The system as I can see would still technically have #2? If a rogue had vial and Spine trinkets, the game would still roll for him on Blackhorns?
as far as #3, how is this addressed in the new system? can't you still technically do this? Or is kicking just not allowed now?
Will performance be graded now for #4? Will our rolls receive bonuses based on damage/healing/damage taken etc etc? If not, that will always be an issue and there really is no cure for it.

The loot is generated after the game decided who is winning gears

Yes, you can still "rot" gears, but your action is going to have absolutely no impact on anyone else outcome.


You can still kick people, but the overall ambiance should be considerably improved because the anger is going to be focused on the dice rolls rather than on the person that took the item out of your hand. You probably won't even know what other won in the first place.

[ringthree]

As with most everything that Blizzard does, the new looting system will have two effects. The stupid will not understand it and will get upset about it. The rest of the people will say that it's cool and not worry much about it.

For the stupid people, it won't matter how many times you explain the system, they will never accept that it's fine and will continue to cry about it until they find something new to cry about.

Also see: AP Beta access.

[Clash Perez]

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid? Got it.

If you don't believe that perfect strangers have the potential to do the right thing, then this is a great system for you.

I've seen people roll 'need' on gear purely for the reason of attempting to trade at a later point in the run, or to give it to someone whom they feel deserves the piece (by looking at DPS/Activity levels, etc). While it's definitely annoying when a jackass cuts and runs with a piece he didn't need, that very thing is something that is likely to become commonplace in 5.0. What is going to be missing are the trades between players or any other player interaction with drops, for the better or worse.

In the end it's LFR and world bosses, so who really gives a fuck, right? Only us casuals, I guess.

[Gulkeeva]

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid? Got it.

If you don't believe that perfect strangers have the potential to do the right thing, then this is a great system for you.

I've seen people roll 'need' on gear purely for the reason of attempting to trade at a later point in the run, or to give it to someone whom they feel deserves the piece (by looking at DPS/Activity levels, etc). While it's definitely annoying when a jackass cuts and runs with a piece he didn't need, that very thing is something that is likely to become commonplace in 5.0. What is going to be missing are the trades between players or any other player interaction with drops, for the better or worse.

In the end it's LFR and world bosses, so who really gives a fuck, right? Only us casuals, I guess.

Alot of people do this, infact... I've had people say they will pay me if I win something and trade it to them O_o
Only reason i've been doing lfr is for vial ;/

[Meresgi]

Item drops>game checks if you have that item ID in any bags/on character>you auto pass if you do>items cant be traded.

Bam done. Problems solved. All dual wield weapons get main hand and offhand status because fuck you is why.

[The Stig]

But if that happens, the offhand/mainhand thing, this will screw all transmoggers!