FINAL FANTASY XIV Welcome Back Campaign Kicks Off!

[Lucavi]

Holy shit.

I don't complain about anyone who doesn't share my view; I debate the views themself. There's a massive, tremendous difference, and I'm going to assume, Mioko, that you're smart enough to know the difference between the two.

Seriously, if you play the game religiously, why are you even in this thread? This is the one thread in the entire section that's devoted to people that do not regularly play the game, and are not paying SE currently.

[Cichy]

Yes and if you look me and couple others actually offered help and advice to others if they are interested in checking the game out.

[Ambrosia]

I came back to collect the Gobbue mount and do the Inn quest so I can log there and accumulate the bonus experience (which I think it takes 6-7 days of inactivity) to get it to 100%, I don't recall what is exact number. I do agree with Tomino (and others) as far as the whole party system goes. It is either you shout for hours to "hopefully" try some of the older content or have access to a very active link shell. I do agree the party system does feel like something from over a decade ago.


I played the first month of FFXIV when it came out then quit after that. I came back for 1.19-1.20 and got into 7 active link shells. I mainly looked up FFXIV Pro and looked at the top 50 shells at the time. From there I whittled it down to 12 (since the majority were JP) and then finally to 7. Before I left on January 6th, I would say only 2 of those remained really active while the other 5 dropped quite a bit, but still had folks showing up to some events.


Fast forward to now and all of those link shells have practically died off (and these were some of the most active shells back in 1.20). Most of these had websites, and the one that was most active had the most recent post dated from the 1st week of March. From my 144 list of friends during the weekend I saw only 1 person still active. I keep in touch with about half a dozen folks but none of them play except for my JP friend, and even then he sent me an email this week stating that he is logging in much less, but that if I am on he might log on as well.


The 2 main things I wanted to try out were the AF quests and Garuda... but as things stand now... I am not even sure how this is possible. I mean sure I could probably solo the 1st 3 quests for each AF but what about the last 2? As far as Garuda goes, I heard that pick up groups are just a disaster right now (or barely happen) because people already know the outcome. I logged in for a couple of hours just afk'ing in Ul'dah and I rarely saw any shouts... mainly for Ifrit still. Outside of that I didn't see any other shouts or say chat, it felt very quiet. So what am I supposed to do? I am not sure if signing up to 7 "active" link shells again would do the trick, but in all honesty I am not sure if I should wait till Version 2.0 to avoid any "potential" drama.


What do I mean by drama? See here is the thing (it happened quite often in Mysidia and I would not be surprised if it happened with other shells as well). As time went on with the link shells I was active in, people slowly kept dropping and dropping. This slowly took a toll on the most of the leaders as well as the officers. While at first they were very helpful, I think as time went on (and people leaving) they as well as other members... became resentful. Maybe that is the incorrect word or maybe it is not accurate enough. But one trend I saw was that they started inviting people less and less, and made the requirements to get in higher and higher. For example back in the day they only asked you to have 2 or 4 jobs at 50... now some of these ask you to have 10 or 12 or all. I guess they only want people that are really active and run the least chance of leaving the game as well as their shell.


I am very loyal to the shells I join (and so far never left any) except for the fact that they have all broken. I am not loyal to the game at the moment, to be perfectly honest. It is odd, it's like I want to try the 2 "new" content to see if maybe, just maybe I come back but it seems the requirements for them are quite high. Even though I am not a link shell hopper I would "probably" have to prove myself to whatever new link shell is out there that I won't be leaving the game... then I probably have to do a one month trial with them among other things... these requirements... just to do these 2 events.


If I ask for help folks might just say something within the lines "Oh look this bitch wants to try out the new content and then leave us high and dry." Which sadly wouldn't be too far from truth. I would stay in the link shell, but there is no guarantee I would be staying the the game (until Version 2.0 comes out). I mean I am going to be playing (very soon) Diablo 3 and TERA. And I am at the moment beta testing Blade & Soul and Guild Wars 2... with ArcheAge as a possibility if sign ups occur soon for CBT5.


So I have a question (or rather 2). What was the point of the "Welcome Back Campaign" if the server seems so quiet. I mean most of the link shells seem very introverted (hell even back in 1.19-1.20 I had to go out of my way for weeks to join in). They don't seem to want to help anyone outside of their niche group. And the other question is... is it even "feasibly" possible to find folks to do the AF quests without having to shout for 2-3 hours or more in Ul'dah or find a proper team to fight and win Garuda ala pick-up-group style?


Honestly I wish FFXIV had a system that allowed me to just jump into the action and do the Garuda fight and AF quests without the requirements or the "potential" drama attached to them like other MMOs.

INB4 go play other MMO.

Moo...

[Corrderio]

Stuff

This is how I felt about the game ever since I came back when jobs were introduced. Even with the server merge and a noticeable amount of people this game still feels just as empty as it was back when I was on Trabia. Ever since I started out on Aegis I've had a hard time to find a shell I like. Most shells just do stuff "whenever people are on" and don't run on a schedule, which isn't what I'm looking for. In all honesty, if this SP I'm in doesn't work out, I'm calling it quits. Even if they do I'm still on the fence about doing the same repetitive content due to the horrendous drop rates. I've been trying to stay positive, but it's hard to when everything so far has been either "full group or GTFO."

As for your questions:

1. That's a very good question. Right now unless you can find a decently active shell, you're going to be in a very awkward spot since there's pretty much nothing new to do. Unless you somehow managed to miss dong levequests.

2. Pretty doubtful. Even compromising with others to get their AF bodies for another job resulted in very little success on my end. I've also seen people shout for quite a long time without making any progress on party members. It's pretty much like doing WOTG missions/nation storylines, unless you jump on the train ASAP, the odds of you getting a group together for it drops significantly after about a week.,

[Cichy]

Both of you guys are completely right. This game see's very few new players at this point. They either waiting for 2.0 or moved on. This leaves you with players who have been playing for a long time and they dont really want to back track. Gungnir for example doesnt allow character creation so people have been complaining that their friends who want to play cant join them.
There has been few people on Lodestone if you look up world forums who created Linkshells for returning players and are willing to help. However, I dont think that's what you guys want to deal with.
If you're looking for that new start my advice would be to just wait till 2.0. They said that there will be servers created for new characters only so you can experience all the changes with other people like you.

[Hiruke]

I think it's pretty funny that they've closed a number of servers based on total characters created, with absolutely no regard to whether or not they are active. Like, if the cap is X, and the active population is 10-20% of X (for example), the fuck? It's pretty amazing if they seriously expect all (or even a significant number) of those folks to roll back in before 2.0 hits. Because, well... they won't. I suckered 30+ people from my LS to play 14 at launch, and nearly all of them bounced back to 11 a long time ago. I don't even see any point in trying to get them to check out this game again until 2.0. (Not only that, but I've only seen 1 person on my flist - not counting LS mates - ever on since I started playing again a couple months or so ago.)

Really the only point in playing at this point is if you're seriously banking on 2.0 saving marriages, ending world hunger, etc. And you want to get the jump on the new players by having all your stuff maxed or whatever, so you can get right to doing the new content, or helping newbies, etc. Or you just want that sweet Legacy campaign status and goobbue mount. I have "quit" a number of times since launch, and still don't see much point in doing too much of anything besides leveling up crafting and gathering classes.

Personally, if SE doesn't get its head out of its ass when it comes to terribad drop rates, I plan to join whatever dramatic thread on OF is talking about quitting in protest of how 2.0 still sucks, and deactivating until they make the game more about fun and challenge and less about 1 in 100 (or worse) chance of getting something worthwhile after clearing the content in question.

I don't see the appeal of joining a server on 2.0 where no pre-2.0 characters will be allowed to join. I guess I don't have the right perspective? Would be nice if someone could explain it to me.

[Ambrosia]

@Corrderio

Yeah pretty much. If it isn't Garuda then chances are it is for the DarkLight armor, which I've heard has pretty bad drop rates. Yeah the mentality of full group or don't even bother is strong as ever. That is pretty much how I feel... being in an awkward spot. Only 1 of the 144 from my friend's list are still active, and finding another network of link shells (six or seven) would probably not be an option for such a short amount of time that the campaign has.

Hell when I joined those seven link shells I mentioned previously, it took me nearly a month to join some of them plus going through hoops for a couple of them. That is a shame you helped others to get their AF but still have troubles getting yours. It pretty much feels like WOTG all over again. It rings so true that when that content came out; you had a week to get it done. If you couldn't make it that week, you were pretty much screwed into waiting/shouting for hours or days to get those quests done.


@Cichy

Yeah I feel that is part of the problem, in that those folks just don't want to back track. I didn't know Gungnir was completely locked out, good thing that is my default home. I don't want to start all over again since I have all of my DOW/DOM at 50 with all of my crafting/gathering in the upper teens and a couple in the 20's. I guess I'll wait this one out till Version 2.0 then!


@Hiruke

Yeah my main reason for logging back was getting the Gobbue mount and completing the Inn quest and logging inside to get the bonus exp. I was hoping to try out Garuda and complete a couple of the AF quests (since Version 2.0 newbies won't have access to either of these for quite some time). But it just seems at this point in time, it would be incredibly difficult to do so. Can't do the 2 "new" contents because of the steep "requirements." i.e. Lack of new blood/community mentality/no cross server content finder options/having only 1 person left in friend list/etc.

[Siatdiat]

I find it ironic that people talk about how there isn't shit to do, which there really isn't anything fun to do, but then when some people log on and try to get into the game, no one wants to help them get into the game because none of this shit is actually very fun. If doing this content was fun for AF and jobs, people would help possibly just because it was fun, so its all just apparently set up first and foremost to be time intensive, fun comes in somewhere very low in the equation.

[Cichy]

I find it ironic that people talk about how there isn't shit to do, which there really isn't anything fun to do, but then when some people log on and try to get into the game, no one wants to help them get into the game because none of this shit is actually very fun. If doing this content was fun for AF and jobs, people would help possibly just because it was fun, so its all just apparently set up first and foremost to be time intensive, fun comes in somewhere very low in the equation.

It's the same problem XI, Tera, and number of MMOs have. It's not something specific to XIV. People just dont want to backtrack for any reason.

[Siatdiat]

It's the same problem XI, Tera, and number of MMOs have. It's not something specific to XIV. People just dont want to backtrack for any reason.

There is no reason to do any content really below level 50 other than the job quests and AF. I want to say most games are keeping people busy with max level content, and I guess they technically are keeping people busy working on doing Ifrit, Mog, and Garuda 200+ times each. But to me this is the most garbage content I could imagine in a game made after 2010. There are console games with better gameplay online than this game. I would rather grind Monster Hunter Tri than play this shit. I quit playing months ago because I had absolutely zero desire to do any of that kind of shitty content, since I have zero interest in wasting my life so that I can brag in a year when people who are new after 2.0 won't have access to some of this content.

In the 2 ls I hold, one is always empty, the other has like 10 people constantly afk or who don't respond to anyone. I hope the reason everything is shitty is because most of their effort is going into 2.0.

Additionally, since there is no reason to do the content for helpers, its even less likely in the first place. In a proper game, people would start leveling a class, make parties for appropriate content at certain levels, and work their way up to 50. As it stands, the game is ridiculous. Since everything is tedious and boring and annoying to make groups for, people just find ways to grind through levels asap or get PLed to max level, then solo everything they can for other classes/jobs they want to level. Its possible for leveling to be enjoyable if done properly, sadly this is not done properly at all.

[Grey Jorildyn]

There are plenty of reasons to do content below level cap, but just not in this game. MMOs sped up over the years (XI no different), decreasing the difficulty to earn levels and increasing the rate at which players hit max level. This always has the effect of making non-capped content a "waste of time" to players.

Someday MMOs will go so fast, someone will say "maybe we should slow this down again", and then levels can become meaningful again. Other games are circumventing this by removing levels entirely, moving towards a broad skill system where you can do it all (essentially trinity), and installing some form of level sync at launch with auto-scale when you enter certain zones.

Imo, XIV was a better concept of a game when levels mattered, there was no AA, and they were trying to do a few things different, but too much originiality splashed into a game that shared too many similarities with everything else was just bad. Anyway, this has been discussed to death anyway.

[Swag]

I was thinking of checking out the game again for the WB campaign, but after reading this thread it sounds like the game still has the same problems it had when I quit before the server merge. Terrible UI, tough to clear content the hards cleared the week it came out, missing/inactive people from your flist/ls, etc

Community (compared to xi) is one of the worst issues I noticed when I used to play. Some of the "better" ls are very clicky, elitist (makes no sense to feel elite over the horrid content that exists but whatever), irritating, and not many people were willing to help others clear content they had already cleared. Still sounds like more of the same these days. This game isn't fun/good enough to deal with asshats the majority of the time you're logged in.
I guess the best choice is to wait for 2.0 and see how that goes, but at this point I don't expect to want to play it when it does come out either.

[TacoTaru]

Holy shit.

Seconding this. Holy lol at the irony.

[Thiefami]

Unfortunately I just do not think this game is going to make the final cut. All we know really is that 2.0 will address server functionality, UI, and other technical aspects. As far as content it seems to be the same shit they are releasing now, all of which willl make a reappearance in 2.0. As a person who really wants to see the game pull through it's not looking well at all. It's a shame really..

[Corrderio]

It's the same problem XI, Tera, and number of MMOs have. It's not something specific to XIV. People just dont want to backtrack for any reason.

While true, this is the exact reason why storylines/AF/things that only benefit you should remain solo. But when the challenge comes from finding people than the actual fight itself, there's a problem.

[Lucavi]

While true, this is the exact reason why storylines/AF/things that only benefit you should remain solo. But when the challenge comes from finding people than the actual fight itself, there's a problem.

Pretty much. Storyline progression, at the very least, should be soloable, and since most games rarely give elite or high-quality gear from story quests, being soloable isn't a problem. If you want to make the fights tough, design capable NPCs with decent AI that can help out, assuming someone doesn't have a full party. Keep the difficulty on the world spawns, instances and raids. People that pay the monthly fee should have the ability to experience the main storyline, at the very least. This is a problem with a few games, but thankfully, some of the newer games are getting it right.

[Grey Jorildyn]

What you just said is what TOR did. It's kinda fail sometimes but works most of the time. It really just depends on how you want to design your game. All the pieces of the puzzle have to fit in nicely and well, they don't in XIV, so we got what we got.

[Cichy]

Pretty much. Storyline progression, at the very least, should be soloable, and since most games rarely give elite or high-quality gear from story quests, being soloable isn't a problem. If you want to make the fights tough, design capable NPCs with decent AI that can help out, assuming someone doesn't have a full party. Keep the difficulty on the world spawns, instances and raids. People that pay the monthly fee should have the ability to experience the main storyline, at the very least. This is a problem with a few games, but thankfully, some of the newer games are getting it right.

Most of the story line missions (grand company ones) were soloable by lvl 50, until this update where they added the magitek and garuda mission. I dont know what will happen in the future but Lodestone had thread after thread pop up about "Bring COP difficulty/feel back." So I guess it's them trying to cater to the feedback they got.
The original story line missions is not even worth talking about, that's just a steaming pile of shit. GC one on the other hand, so far, so good.

[Cichy]

double

[Lucavi]

Its not even that XIV doesn't do it well; there's a lot of ways to handle it. TOR does it through having NPC helpers, TERA does it through down-scaling the BAMs for red quests, while requiring party help for the yellow quests; GW2 has it where you can solo your own personal story quests; there's more than one way to skin a cat. I just remember the horror stories some people had with CoP, trying to get through some of the latter parts of the expansion, like the airship fight, when so many of their friends had already moved past that point, and people would just get burnt out and wouldn't help out anymore. You absolutely want MMOs to be a social experience, but you want to handle it in an intelligent way that won't turn people off, potentially.

I think the combat skills of the classes in XIV are good enough to where a player can still have fun either soloing through story quests, or, like I said earlier, having NPC help, with the option to replace NPCs with actual players, if the person so desires. I, in no way, want NPCs to suddenly replace actual humans, but what I do want is for the situation where someone is effectively "stuck" because they don't have a guild or a bunch of RL friends playing, or nobody in town is responding to their shouts, to go away. XIV isn't the only culprit; XI wasn't either, but SE has a great chance with 2.0 to do some awesome things, one of which could be to design some pretty good allied NPC help.

I mean, shit, who wouldn't have wanted to have a strong Tenzen fight alongside them in XI? Hell, having Prishe fight alongside you at the end of CoP was a blast. Fighting against Gessho was fun, but fighting alongside him in ToAU would have been awesome. I won't even mention how badass many of the special NPCs in WoTG (fuck yeah, Elivira~!!) were. It's kind of weird to see SE not really build upon what they had obviously started to play around with more and more in XI, for XIV. The few times you fight with a NPC in XIV, they really don't wind up helping; they're just kinda there so that the game can say "yeah, they were a part of your experience and your story". Give the NPCs some true AI and some true value in those kinds of fights, and you can suddenly jack up the difficulty of a solo storyline quest.

Imagine starting a storyline quest off with a fight that scales up so that no matter how many PC players you have with you, you'll all eventually get bitched, and have NPCs come in and help out and turn the tide. Its not for everyone, but giving people the freedom of choice on how to progress is always better than locking the soloer out and forcing artificial cooperation. We see how well that's going for XIV right now.

@Cichy: Clearly and obviously you have more experience with the storyline than I do, so that's good to hear. I think people sometimes mistake "solo" for "easy", when there's actually a pretty massive difference. It takes a bit more work and fine-tuning to make a challenging encounter that can be completed solo, but challenging encounters simply make a game more enjoyable. Having probably soloed a few BAMs in TERA, I'm sure you can agree, and even that game doesn't get everything right in that department. For a game like XIV, though, where you can have physically-imposing classes like Warrior, and relatively weak classes, like White Mage, adding a variety of NPCs to assume different roles in a fight can allow every class to tackle something "solo", while still being required to contribute. A white mage, for example, may have to work their ass off to keep a batch of NPCs up and running to eventually whittle down a mob. A Warrior may have to fight intelligently and protect his fragile NPC healer if he wants to "solo" a tough fight. Hell, I'd love to see a "solo" version of Divine Might, where your player and 4 NPCs of various types have to face down the AA's. If you have more PC players there, you just swap out your friendly NPCs for real PCs.