Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)

[Horus]

talked to him today 3 seals from each. I was wrong. DAMN Its hamlet time.

[Alkar]

What you're saying is almost necessarily contradictory. In the old system where everyone can do everything, how is anyone useless? If THM and CNJ can use all of each other's spells, but THM is 5% better because of the slight native skill bonus, that doesn't make CNJ "useless"; furthermore, when you consider that both classes were great healers before and one of them is an utterly pathetic healer now, to say that one of them was "useless" is silly.

For the most part, you can apply the same thing to the other classes. The only real factor that made a class (read: ARC) stand out were the abilities that couldn't be cross-classed; if MRD/LNC/PGL could have used Multishot to pre-stack attacks and could do Mistral Axe-style ranged auto-attacks with their normal weapons, ARC would never have been dominant.

You can make perfectly valid arguments against everyone being able to do everything, but "it makes certain classes useless" is definitely not one of them.

Conjurer was useless compared to Thaumaturge... were you even playing back then? I don't remember Conjurers being able to solo all the "HNMs", do you? Nor do I remember anyone asking for Conjurers... nuking, healing, tanking... Thaumaturge was simply the best in every single role you could think about.
Thaumaturge may be a pathetic healer now (simply because it's not meant to, duh) but it surely deals more damage than Conjurer. That's what class identity is all about.

[Spider-Dan]

Conjurer was useless compared to Thaumaturge... were you even playing back then?

With proper ability loadout, CNJ could do 90-95% of what THM could do. The only significant difference between them was the different AOE targeting, which just reinforces my point: if everyone could really do everything (and CNJ had the option to use THM's cone targeting, with a small range penalty or whatever) then they would have been completely interchangeable in every scenario (as opposed to being interchangeable in 90%+ of scenarios, as they were).

The reason why you didn't see people soloing on CNJ was not because they couldn't do it. It was because once you had both classes at 50 (which you needed for soloing anyway), THM was the-same-but-better in that regard (slightly more efficient Sac/Emulate/Siphon/DoTs, cone vs. radial wasn't really a factor solo). But just because people opted for 100%-efficient-THM instead of 95%-efficient-CNJ, that didn't make CNJ useless. If you consider 95% efficiency to be useless, then almost all of the DDs are useless for every event in this game.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Based on the fact that cross-classing abilities increased the recast timer on them, CNJ having Emulate on a 90s timer with a 60s duration instead of 60s recast with 60 duration (seamless emulation), made CNJ FAR LESS than 95% efficient [in most solo encounters at the time].

[Spider-Dan]

IIRC, with the cross-class trait equipped your timer efficiency was literally 85% of native (25% cross-class penalty - 10% from trait), but it's been a while.

I figure that between the inconsequentiality of most timer differences and the small increase in efficiency to native abilities, 90-95% is a fair approximation.

[Grey Jorildyn]

On paper yes, but in practice, not as close as you'd think on some encounters. It varied quite a bit.

Anyway, why are we even debating old, outdated shit? The game was awful back then and anyone who thought they were gods because they could solo some stupid HNMs was an idiot anyway. Think this thread is about relics so.. let's stick to that?

Seems like no one's figured out the PLD meld yet. Still a few seals away from knowing myself and I'm sure someone will get there before me based on the horrible drop rates in Aleport tonight.

[Lokus]

Considering my luck on double melds (20+ attempts on my INT hat, 15+ on my mage pants, 10+ on my STR gloves, etc.) I -really- abhor the double melding portion of this quest. Pretty much gotta hit the jackpot cause I definitely don't have the gil reserves to buy some of the already melded weapons that are in the MW.

[Odin'sLaw]

Considering my luck on double melds (20+ attempts on my INT hat, 15+ on my mage pants, 10+ on my STR gloves, etc.) I -really- abhor the double melding portion of this quest. Pretty much gotta hit the jackpot cause I definitely don't have the gil reserves to buy some of the already melded weapons that are in the MW.

someone said you get told which one's to add to it so....you no want to do that :/

[Grey Jorildyn]

Each weapon has a fixed materia associated with it. I think only the PLD is unknown still. The others you can see in a pad's guide or in the relic revival thread on the OFs.

[TacoTaru]

Someone on the OF is now saying Heaven's Eye for PLD.

[Eagleheart]

Also from the OF, a couple of posters referenced needing "perfect" Tier IV materias for the double-binding.

Anyone know about that? >.> 'cause that's a liiiiiiiiiiiitle more complicated than just nabbing two Heaven's Eye or Savage Might IV and installing them in a darksteel weapon.

Lord knows I've never seen a +50 Savage Might. -_-; or a +20 ACC, for that matter.

[Charismatic]

Probably bullshit and it pretty much had better be...

[Raldo]

The core of my being wants to say "NO! No, that would be incredibly stupid on SE's part!", but I've said that so many times about things regarding SE actually went ahead with (I'm looking at YOU, Hamlet Defense top-3/top-20 exclusive rewards), that I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.

The sheer rarity of getting a perfect TierIV though... To my knowledge, I have never broken a piece of gear into a perfect tier4. Then having to blow it on a weapon that just gets... Does anyone know if they take that double-melded weapon away from you in exchange for the relic? I would imagine so. What a waste.

[TacoTaru]

The core of my being wants to say "NO! No, that would be incredibly stupid on SE's part!", but I've said that so many times about things regarding SE actually went ahead with

I want to agree with this considering I would thing the first people to get past this stage would have mentioned that. Capped tier4s are extraordinarily uncommon and obscenely expensive if you can bother to find one. I can't recall if I ever actually obtained a capped tier4 from spiritbonding, but I'm leaning towards no.

[Jamison]

I saw a screenshot of the quest log, and unless it was left out, the text doesn't say anything about that.

[Eagleheart]

I saw a screenshot of the quest log, and unless it was left out, the text doesn't say anything about that.

That is reassuring, then. (O.< ) My friends and I have decided to get the Spiritbond spam/doublebind portion of the quest out of the way before anything else, so I was a little unhappy to hear the perfect tier IV bit. We shall proceed as planned.

('-' ) Curtana will be mine!

[Grey Jorildyn]

I didn't take it as saying you need perfect tier IV materia but rather the pattern for determining what you need to meld on the weapon is determined by the fact that certain bonuses are perfect tier IVs. For example the Artemis and Curtana have acc+40 on it, representing two perfect Heaven's Eye IVs. Some of the other weapons follow the pattern, some don't.

[Rocl]

I didn't take it as saying you need perfect tier IV materia but rather the pattern for determining what you need to meld on the weapon is determined by the fact that certain bonuses are perfect tier IVs. For example the Artemis and Curtana have acc+40 on it, representing two perfect Heaven's Eye IVs. Some of the other weapons follow the pattern, some don't.

Only Thyrus doesn't follow the pattern.

2 Perfect Hell's Fist IV is 30 magic attack potency. Stardust Rod has 30 magic attack potency.
2 Perfect Savage Might IV is 100 critical hit attack power. Gae Bolg has 100 critical attack potency.
2 Perfect Touch of Rage IV is 50 enmity. Bravura has 50 enmity.
2 Perfect Manathirst IV is 70 mp. Spharai has 70 mp.
2 Perfect Mind IV is 40 MND. Thyrus has 60 MND. Alkalurops has a base of 25 MND, so that'd be 65 MND. It's weird.


I have made ONE perfect materia before and it was MND materia and it was ages ago =(

[Jamison]

Only Thyrus doesn't follow the pattern.

2 Perfect Hell's Fist IV is 30 magic attack potency. Stardust Rod has 30 magic attack potency.
2 Perfect Savage Might IV is 100 critical hit attack power. Gae Bolg has 100 critical attack potency.
2 Perfect Touch of Rage IV is 50 enmity. Bravura has 50 enmity.
2 Perfect Manathirst IV is 70 mp. Spharai has 70 mp.
2 Perfect Mind IV is 40 MND. Thyrus has 60 MND. Alkalurops has a base of 25 MND, so that'd be 65 MND. It's weird.


I have made ONE perfect materia before and it was MND materia and it was ages ago =(

That's interesting. I like when there's a little thought an reason behind the little stuff.

[TacoTaru]

Obviously it's an error and Thryus should have 65MND when introduced.

Spoiler: show

I want to believe.