FFXIV Doubles Subscribers since switching to Monthly Biling

[Enygma55]

If you want the most out of the game and dont wanna rely on people to have the proper job, you lv multiple 50's to avoid this situation. Its just natural adaptation. I always lv multiple jobs just incase we need to switch jobs around and not have to sit in town 7/8 in a party looking for a WHM when its easier to find a BLM or WAR. Only reason I have all jobs to 50 is because of how easy it is to lv nowadays or I'd only have WHM, BLM and DRG.

If people like to stay on 1 job forever that's fine but understand that you are limiting yourself in the content you can participate in. It also locks other people out as if you have 4 dedicated WHMs in your LS and they have no other jobs, you cant take all 4 whms into a raid and expect to make good time. This is probably the biggest issue with having only 1 job at 50 that I personally deal with.

[Gadritan]

When it takes all of 2 days to go from 0-50, I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't have multiple jobs capped.

[Jamison]

For me, it's a bit of a perception problem. I still cringe a bit from old school FFXI and early FFXIV leveling speed. 2 of the 3 classes I have to 50 now took 2 months each of grinding under the original system. I just have zero desire to level up anything else, and I'd prefer the game be designed in a way that I didn't have to. But this is SE we're talking about, so I don't have the highest expectations of balance and accessibility in the future.

More the point.. while getting a class/job up to 50 may be rather trivial, gearing it up correctly is not. It's either expensive or time consuming, and while I don't consider myself casual I'd rather focus 100% of my (somewhat limited) time into having one main job that is incredibly well equipped than spread that effort out to all the jobs.

And if FFXIV is to be a game where to progress or to be accepted multiple/all 50's are expected or required, SE and the community need to be upfront about that.

[Churchill]

I'm curious about how it's exactly time consuming? From a Darklight/Militia perspective, sure, I don't know myself but I imagine it's fairly lame as far as getting the pieces you want (less so if you want them all I suppose)

If you're talking about HQ rings/stuff and melds, then I don't really understand. You can go outside of Uldah and make 400k in 15m. You'd make millions just leveling miner. You can take advantage of people being dumb and double melding cheap materia and selling for 5-10x profit. You can farm any number of highly desirable items for an hour and pull in 800-1000k. Even if you don't want to risk melding yourself you can find decent melds for cheap if you keep an eye out.

Your other points, sure, I understand what you're saying. Most people just want to get their AF and look cool and show up to stuff with that mentality. In that respect, I don't think SE needs to say anything (about it being unacceptable) because frankly it just is or it isn't, depends on how you play. The multiple class requirement is player induced though - to make life easier for events. If you and another person only have BRD for AV, then AV is going to take quite a bit longer.

[LD]

When it takes all of 2 days to go from 0-50, I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't have multiple jobs capped.

Because I shouldn't have to.
Also, you said CAPPED, not leveled.

[Raldo]

Jobs you care about : gear them
Jobs you don't care about : carry their AF

Problem solved

If someone asks you to come on a job you're not thrilled to be on, they shouldn't expect it to be well geared. Hell, I still don't even have rings for my mage jobs, but they're both 50.

[LD]

I'd rather not do a job at all than half-ass one I'm asked to do.

Also, you missed the point like a champ. I should not have to. What causes me to play a class should be the inherent mechanics first and necessary group balance second. I went 6 years before I played a job anyone actually wanted around in FFXI. FFXIV's gunna be no different.

[Churchill]

Not gonna be able to do stuff then, that's your decision.

[LD]

If a game doesn't make me want to play every role, that's not my fault and I shouldn't be punished for it.

[Grey Jorildyn]

If a game doesn't make me want to play every role, that's not my fault and I shouldn't be punished for it.

Welcome to Final Fantasy XIV! Play BLM, WHM, WAR, or BRD, or go home.

[Carraway]

Welcome to Final Fantasy XIV! Play BLM, WHM, WAR, or BRD, or go home.

If we look at the most recent endgame fight, Ifrit Extreme: PLD MT, some combination of MNKs/DRGs/WARs/WHMs/BLMs and sometimes one BRD; there are huge variations in party composition across successful kills. We used 4 DRGs, for example, and I think we're the only shell that has used that particular comp.

[Lucavi]

You have some great points and some great ideas but I'm not sure they'd work in an MMO. The main reason is because of the shear time involved. It would work great for those of us who level all the jobs to 50 or whatever, but most players want to pick a job and take it to 50 and stick with it. Now, of course, the main draw of XI and XIV were that you could switch classes, so everyone will end up doing that - but most players aren't going to level everything. Instead, they'll have end up with PLD and BLM, or DRG and WHM, MNK and BRD or something.

I'd love to see a system like the one you described but I'm not sure it'd work. It would require a bit too much preparation work for the average player before you can really be optimal at a given job at level cap.

It would work. XI was nothing but preparation, or so people at the top liked to brag about. Just think about what it took to get certain classes ready for end-game. If you wanted to play drk, you had to have /nin subbed and a few other jobs to at least 37.

MMOs are all about time. A company should love to have a system where you actually have the player excited about leveling multiple jobs to their peak, and players should love the idea of becoming stronger from having so many jobs leveled to peak.

Edit: No one should be surprised that XIV has the same elitist setup and "requirement" for content that XI did. Its part of that "legendary" community that you people speak of when you talk so fondly of XI. People remember the good but forget the bad until they're actually hindered by the bad. This is nothing new.

I fully expect to not be able to do anything of worth with my Dragoon. I expected it with Lancer in 1.0, and I'll expect it with Drg in 2.0. I expected it with Drg throughout the entirety of XI. Therefore, you play until you've hit your limit of tolerance for the shitty reality of the situation, and then you either quit or you conform to the standards of the game. What you don't do, however, with a SE product, is expect it to change, either from player perception (the players are 10 times worse than the devs ever could hope to be when it comes to stubbornness and bad attitudes, "community" be damned) or from the devs fixing what should be fixed.

I speak of what they -could- do to have an amazing system that would draw in many players and provide a pretty deep experience to the job system, not what they will do. I know they will half-ass the system, because that's what they've always done. They'll throw anyone under the bus, so long as they can hang on to their Japanese pride and maintain that their grand design for the game is the best, no matter how many subs they bleed. We still haven't heard a true "we fucked up" from SE related to this fiasco, and we never will.

[Enygma55]

XI stigmata is blinding alot of people. DRG and MNK are very strong DD in end game as of right now. I believe any content can be cleared with any party setup given enough player skills to handle said setups. We're currently attemping Ifrit EX also and we run with a mix of MNK/DRG/WAR depending on who can come. Its actually quite flexible.

[Corrderio]

I will admit I am kind of surprised with that part. The game has got better in that regard, though Chimera still seems like an annoying fight for melee.

Now if they could only do something about piss poor drop rates.

[Grey Jorildyn]

If we look at the most recent endgame fight, Ifrit Extreme: PLD MT, some combination of MNKs/DRGs/WARs/WHMs/BLMs and sometimes one BRD; there are huge variations in party composition across successful kills. We used 4 DRGs, for example, and I think we're the only shell that has used that particular comp.

Yeah, but see most people will never fight Ifrit extreme so that doesn't really mean a whole lot.

[LD]

To be clear, I really don't care how difficult the content is, this is a general point I'm making about game design. In terms of expanding your tool box, I meet that concept half way (sub jobs in XI, necessary abilities in XIV). However, being compelled to level a job you don't like is the wrong feeling to go with in game design and I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about it while taking part in it. There's a reasonable limit for this type of thing, and for me it's at about 30.

It's also a complete non-issue for me (other than intellectually), I haven't played FFXIV in at least a month and when I did I was never doing anything other than soloing or the very rare story missions.

@Lucavi: 'Couple things. While I appreciate the realist stance on this, none of us would be here if we didn't think that the worst parts of this game could be changed. Also, unlike XI, solo is a stronger option. We won't be doing NOTHING, like we did before. In other words, before when I was sitting on MNK in FFXI doing nothing, I was in a rut hoping for a change that never really came. This time, making the classes and jobs interesting to play and improving & expanding solo are clearly defined focuses for the dev team. Even if group dynamics remain imbalanced, the player who refuses to take part in it will have something to fucking DO. It won't be thousands of players sitting in Jeuno. It may be like that now, but only for end game and it's because of a lack of content.

[vadre]

People also seem to be forgetting that it's not always going to be a 2 day sprint to 50, which means that in order to be viable people will have to commit considerable time to levelling classes that they might not enjoy, which smacks of bad design.

If they'd done some merit-type system where once you got to 50 and perhaps levelled your partner chocobo/NPC to max you could use a couple of their skills I think I'd have preferred that. Obviously that's just a suggestion made being as I'm playing ME3 whilst typing and it uses something like that, no idea how viable it would actually be.

[Gadritan]

this is a general point I'm making about game design.

Still one of the only major MMOs you can have multiple classes available on the same character. gtfo with game design. Having to create an alt for every job I want to lvl is annoying. That's one of the more appealing aspects to XIV. You have the option of being versatile without having to relog. I mean, you can change jobs on the fly. It's purdy cool imo.

I'm not sure if you're aware of the insane amount of xp you get from missions, quests, primals, etc that can be used for ANY JOB YOU WANT. In the natural process of the game, you can get a ton of xp for the jobs you don't particularly care for, but may want to be more versatile. Whenever you complete missions/quests etc, you can swap to whatever job you want to get the xp rewards. i.e. I took my LTH from 32-38 off of farming one of the instances when it first came out (Moogle).

[xopher]

Being forced into one job because everyone thinks its the best for a fight isnt a problem with the game. Its the player base being unwilling to think outside the box for the benefit of other players.

[Lucavi]

Being forced into one job because everyone thinks its the best for a fight isnt a problem with the game. Its the player base being unwilling to think outside the box for the benefit of other players.

Being forced into one job because another job does everything that your job is supposed to be able to do, but infinitely better, is a problem with the game, though. Being forced into one job because the good things that your job can do are completely useless in the grand scheme of progression and end-game is another problem with the game. SE has struggled mightily with these concepts in the past, and honestly, it still remains to be seen if they can show that they've learned anything.

The playerbase is shitty, though, no doubt. Players love punishing other players, and those who feel at the top love to make sure that everyone else not only knows it, but that the way they made it is the only good way to make it. The community, while leading to some great "legendary BG" moments, is complete ass.