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  1. #21
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    Gasoline has the chief benefit of being both familiar and relatively passive. As we move towards renewable energy sources, people will find new, incredibly crazy things to complain about. On the practical side, we have farmers in America complaining about noise pollution the wind turbines generate causing sleeplessness and other related problems. On the other end of the spectrum in Germany people are complaining about potential lung problems and even cancer arising from new power line construction.

  2. #22
    Death by snoo snoo
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    Pretty sure that even with 100% coal electricity you're carbon positive compared to gasoline, but here in Los Angeles, the grid is:


    with plans to phase out coal entirely by 2030.

    Still though, you're looking at $300/year in energy costs instead of $1300 for a comparable car - and that's at current gas prices, which are certain to increase at a much higher rate than electricity prices.
    Except when Electricity becomes a popular fuel source for cars. Then it'll cost more.

    Do you know why?

    Because fuck you, that's why.

  3. #23
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    MOTHERFUCKER

    just lost my post

    I just did a shitload of calculations on carbon production per kwh and carbon per mile for gasoline

    and the forum ate it

    fuck me sideways

    Anyway, what I figured out is that in California, you're looking at the average gas-powered car producing 5.4X the amount of CO2 than the equivalent distance driven in a Model S. The average gas-powered vehicle in America gets a combined 21 mpg. So even if you're driving a hybrid getting 42 mpg, you're still producing 2.7X the amount of carbon than in a Model S in California.

    In the worst state in the union for carbon production from electricity, North Dakota, I figured out that a Model S is equivalent to a gasoline powered car that gets 30.5 mpg for carbon emissions. In ND, a new Corolla or Prius or something would be carbon-positive compared to the Model S.

  4. #24
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
    Except when Electricity becomes a popular fuel source for cars. Then it'll cost more.

    Do you know why?

    Because fuck you, that's why.
    Nah, utilities have a huge load during the day, and a very low load at night for electricity, and night is when people are plugging their cars in. There's a huge bandwith available for production of electricity during off-peak hours. Plus, for electric vehicle drivers, not only does my utility pay for a charger installation in my garage (up to $2000 rebate), they also offer a special electricity rate for off-peak charging just for electric vehicles.

  5. #25
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Also, I did the math on a roughly comparably equipped BMW 328i vs. the Tesla S, if you drive 100,000 miles in the vehicle. This does not count maintenance, in which (if the Model S is solidly built) the Model S should have a significant advantage (no spark plugs, no radiator, no fuel pump, no timing belt, no oil changes, etc. etc.).

    ----------------
    TESLA MODEL S:
    9.5 kwh for 25 miles
    38,000 kwh for 100,000 miles

    LADWP rates:

    8.3c/kwh 4 months a year
    10.2c/kwh 8 months a year
    =
    9.56c/kwh average


    $57,400 - Model S Base Price

    -7500 federal tax credit
    -2500 State of CA tax credit

    +3750 tech package
    +2700 for Twin Chargers+wall connector
    +1500 for glass roof
    -1200 LADWP rebate for wall connector


    $55650 - cost to purchase with the accessories I desire

    $3,632.80 in electricity to travel 100,000 miles in the Tesla Model S


    $59,282 to travel 100,000 miles in a Model S.




    BMW 328i
    .96 gallons per 25 miles
    3840 gallons for 100,000 miles
    Premium gasoline @ 3.85/gallon
    $14,784 for 328i automatic to go 100,000 miles at current gas prices


    328i base price: $36,500
    +1050 moonroof
    +2150 navigation
    +895 destination and handling


    $40,595 total equipped


    plus $14,784


    $55,379 to travel 100,000 miles in a BMW 328i.

    If gas prices increase to an average of 4.85/gallon premium over the next 8.5 years
    (to drive 100k miles at 12k a year) - which I consider extremely likely, considering that there are gas stations in LA right now that are more than 4.85/gallon premium, and electricity rates stay the same (they won't but yeah), the BMW 328i would cost exactly the same as the Model S to drive 100k miles (ignoring maintenance costs, of which the 328i would very likely be higher).
    -----------------


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
    Except when Electricity becomes a popular fuel source for cars. Then it'll cost more.

    Do you know why?

    Because fuck you, that's why.
    Actually it would go up, but not because fuck you. It'd go up because higher demand = higher prices. The increase would be tiny though, and hardly worth considering.

  7. #27
    Electric Six groupie
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    ^ I assume you mean the increase in demand will be tiny? If so, then I conquer. It will be like a drop in the pond as far as demand goes.

  8. #28
    Member since 2006 and still can't think of a title.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    The whole thing is bullshit. They don't actually have to release any of the reserves, they just have to make people think they are going to, and the price of gas will magically drop. Just like how the Chevron refinery fire in CA made the prices go up well over 5% even though there is no direct reason to have a spike of that size since that refinery only handles something like 0.06% of the countries gas usage. I know it does cause legitimate supply issues in certain locations, but the price spike happening everywhere, and at such magnitude, is pretty retarded.
    Seraph, the reason it had such a spike in california is California has some of the strictest air quality controls for gasoline in the nation. It's not like we can hit up a refinery in texas and get the same blended gasoline mandated by our stupid laws. That's why we spiked 20 cents in less than a week.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    this happens every summer. I don't see why it's now suddenly such a big deal. In fact its cheaper this summer then it's been the last few years around this time. Gas goes up during the spring/summer and down in the fall/winter. Has a lot to do w/ people traveling
    Yep, every year it is the same story, you'll see gas starting to rise right before 4th of july then it'll fall down a little. A few weeks before labor day, it starts to mysteriously rise along with back to school. Imagine that, gas was cheaper this summer than the past few years because this year just happens to be election year

  10. #30
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    And that blended gasoline is part of the reason that smog in downtown Los Angeles (basically where I live) is way, WAY less than it was in the 70's.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    Seraph, the reason it had such a spike in california is California has some of the strictest air quality controls for gasoline in the nation. It's not like we can hit up a refinery in texas and get the same blended gasoline mandated by our stupid laws. That's why we spiked 20 cents in less than a week.
    The 5%+ price spike wasn't just in CA.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    Has a lot to do w/ people traveling
    Has more to do with speculators expecting people to be traveling. It has little correlation to actual travel statistics.

  13. #33

    Problem is that if you look from a environmental perspective aren't the battery in these things going to negate any kind of benefit due to how we get the materials and what they're made out of?

  14. #34
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    Only if the cars are used for less than 10-13 years depending on the model

  15. #35

    Not to mention scientists are working on new batteries that aren't so costly or bad for the environment as well, thanks to rising demand.

  16. #36
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Re: lol Gas prices

    Not so bad. Producing electricity for recharging the battery has a much larger environmental impact than the production of the battery.

    http://www.gizmag.com/empa-study-env...ric-car/16181/

  17. #37
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    Re: lol Gas prices

    Quote Originally Posted by Restrat View Post
    Only if the cars are used for less than 10-13 years depending on the model
    I know these aren't normal batteries, but I have never heard of any kind of battery lasting a decade lol

  18. #38
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salodin View Post
    I know these aren't normal batteries, but I have never heard of any kind of battery lasting a decade lol
    The 85kwh Tesla Model S batteries come with a 12-year warranty, so...

    Even the base 40 kwh ones come with an 8-year warranty.

  19. #39
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Hell, there's still plenty of 1997 Prius batteries that are still performing just fine.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salodin View Post
    I know these aren't normal batteries, but I have never heard of any kind of battery lasting a decade lol
    Surely that can't be true.

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