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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    The biggest problem for electrics is how it will apply to commercial shipping, which is where any shortage of energy is felt most acutely. I figure nuclear can take over for diesel on container ships, but what about trucks?
    I don't see why trucks can't run on electric. In fact, it's probably even better suited to it than for most people's general use cars. Trucks are big, and can keep multiple much larger batteries, and it's perfectly feasible to just have a bunch of batteries around to swap between trucks, so it's not a problem if your trucks are being driven 23+ hours per day.

  2. #62
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Friend of mine works for a Jatropha biofuel farm company, could be promising as they domesticate and genetically engineer it for greater yields. The oil produced is "drop-in" ready as jetfuel (they can make biodiesel with it too, or any number of other carbon-chain liquid fuels) and Lufthansa has already flown test flights on 100% Jatropha fuel, without engine modifications.

    But yeah, I'm just talking about passenger vehicles. Semi trucks and cargo ships are their own challenge...although if electrics can take some of the demand off oil, it will help somewhat.

  3. #63
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    The range problem with electric cars is so simple to solve I don't understand why I've never seen anything like it being mentioned. What happens when the batteries die in your remote? Do you plug it in and wait 20 minutes to change the channel, or do you put new batteries in? You change those suckers. Same concept. Adopt an industry standard to ensure compatibility, then distribute charging stations at the pre-existing infrastructure points (gas stations). Batteries low? Stop at a gas station, swap it out for a fully charged one, leaving the empty one there to charge. Properly designed it could be done in less than 5 minutes.

    Edit: and as adoption rates increase, it just gets easier.

  4. #64
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Re: lol Gas prices

    Easier to just get higher range cars so you would want to swap extremely rarely. The tesla battery is the entire floor of the car, like 4'x6'x4". Full electric cars have huge batteries. Swapping isn't going to be the answer, not needing to will be.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar View Post
    Wait, you actually believe America's mass transit system is on par with Europe?
    No. I've got little idea how the US' mass transit system is. The laughable part is that he thinks our trains are reliable and that cheap trains somehow make up for half-price gas.
    I'd fucking rip the whole country's railways by hand if it meant half-price gas. I'd kill 30 puppies for half-price gas (and 30 more for fun).

    Quote Originally Posted by Archi
    I think by 2020 at least 30% of all new cars sold will be able to be "plugged in" in some way to recharge batteries that at least partially drive the car.
    And what makes you think that? None of us can predict the future, that's just wishful thinking. Can 30% of all car-owners even afford electric cars or hybrids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archi
    Point is, if by 2020 you're getting cars with 500 mile ranges (merely double the longest range Tesla Model S in 2012), having to take 2 hours to recharge in your own garage isn't going to be a problem, at all, for the vast vast majority of users. The only problem you're running into at that point is serious road trips, and that's only if "Supercharger" technology to charge in under an hour (the current Tesla can use a supercharger station to take the car from 30% to 80% in 30 minutes) doesn't improve at all in the next 8 years. (hint: it will)
    The technology will evolve, yes. No one doubts that.
    But will it evolve enough? Will it evolve quickly enough? Won't fuel-efficiency evolve sufficiently to grant us a respite to look for a better solution?
    It doesn't matter if it's 8 hours or 1 hour, it's still more than "a couple of minutes"; and that comes with inconvenients we thought were a thing of the past; vacations by car become a lot less plausible, for instance, so the poor end up paying more for their vacations because they have to fly there. More importantly, emergencies: you need to go the hospital in the middle of the night for X reason... but the car is in the middle of its charging cycle, you can't. Examples are numerous because we've come to expect travel to be that efficient, so any loss in said efficiency can't be accepted by society at large.

    That's what really rubs me the wrong way with ecologists: they expect everyone to adapt around their "green" technology, rather than technology serving the needs of the people, the people have to bend around it.
    Can we adapt to recharge time expressed in hours? Yes. Should we need to? No.

    And the issue of price remains. For the Panda driver, that Tesla is way out of reach. For most people, a car is 8k-15k €, not 75k.

    Quote Originally Posted by Correction
    The context is that when fossil fuels run out, what will replace them? You pretended enough knowledge about battery tech limitations to post futurama videos and post '[email protected]' here and there but I am really curious about what knowledge you have. So far your only answer was "I don't know" and that's not good enough to say 'batteries won't work in a future where fossil fuels are gone.' You're trying too hard here to win some tit-for-tat postwar and aren't posting actual information.
    Why do I engage trolls? You've distorted enough things in 3 lines that it'd be quite impossible to rectify them all. I'll just leave it at: what has been said isn't at all similar to whatever you think has been said and your arrogance is really ill-inspired.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    No. I've got little idea how the US' mass transit system is. The laughable part is that he thinks our trains are reliable and that cheap trains somehow make up for half-price gas.
    I'd fucking rip the whole country's railways by hand if it meant half-price gas. I'd kill 30 puppies for half-price gas (and 30 more for fun).
    My experience with the various rail systems in Europe has always been positive, but I never used them for work related purposes. If you are talking about long distance regional trains then I understand your quarrel, but the inter-city transit systems I've used worked really well, especially Paris. In the States you are lucky to find a good transit system outside of major cities. Here in Chicago you have the Metra Rail for your regional stops (which is few and far between for many neighborhoods) and the El for the inter-city/neighborhood stops, which is as close to any Euro transit system I've seen (I think most major US cities are similar, but I can't account for West Coast cities).

    The real problem is transit within large cities that aren't metropolises - places that would benefit greatly from smaller light rail systems but instead would rather their streets be clogged with cars. This is where the US pales in comparison to many European cities of equal size.

  7. #67
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    I looked into getting somewhere by train a while back for a potential job. By car it was 1 hour away. By train, 5 hours, including a 3 mile walk.

  8. #68
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    The curse of living in the 'burbs.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybar View Post
    My experience with the various rail systems in Europe has always been positive, but I never used them for work related purposes. If you are talking about long distance regional trains then I understand your quarrel, but the inter-city transit systems I've used worked really well, especially Paris. In the States you are lucky to find a good transit system outside of major cities. Here in Chicago you have the Metra Rail for your regional stops (which is few and far between for many neighborhoods) and the El for the inter-city/neighborhood stops, which is as close to any Euro transit system I've seen (I think most major US cities are similar, but I can't account for West Coast cities).
    Yeah, but your experience is big cities like Paris.
    If varies by countries, but:
    - In most rural/suburbian areas, train stations closed a long time ago and buses are scarce.
    - Strikes are absurdly common. Especially in France, you were extremly lucky not to run into one.

    Example, my own case: if I want to commute by mass transit, I have to:
    - Walk 15km to the nearest city. That'd take me ~3 hours.
    - Take the train, ~1 hour including some waiting at the station.
    - Walk some 3km. ~30 min.
    Total: 4h30.

    Or I can use the car, 50 minutes commute, 1hr15 with heavy traffic. So yeah, gimme that half-price gas.

  10. #70
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    Honestly it's a double-edged sword - you can lay the blame on the car for the lack of decent mass-transit, and the car then becomes the only solution for travel whereby further decreasing demand for mass-transit.

    Of course, the car has made it possible for people to move away from the city which only made it worse for commuters - but I only know the history of the US as far as that exodus is concerned. Smaller inter-mixed cities like Basel work exceptionally well, but it indeed is harder for people to commute if they don't live within the transit range.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    the poor end up paying more for their vacations because they have to fly there.
    Just emphasizing this concentrated fucking stupidity the next time you want to call me a troll.

  12. #72
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Re: lol Gas prices

    I just love the "how do you know prices will be cheaper and ranges longer in 8 years" argument. I mean shit, they already have an electric mitsubishi for under 22k after rebates for sale right now in 2012.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    Just emphasizing this concentrated fucking stupidity the next time you want to call me a troll.
    Spews 4 strawmen in a single sentence, calls others stupid. Stop trollan'.

    Seriously, that's all you ever do, Correction. Always "this sentence is stupid (because I say so)", "lol" and "justify this", but you never ever produce any arguments of your own. When you're not twisting someone's words, that is.


    Archi: the MiEV? k. It's 35k here, but even at 22k, that's still out of reach for many. LIke I said many can afford 8k-15k, no more. And the MiEV is ludicrously small; compared to other vehicules of its class it's still 2x-3x the price.

  14. #74
    FOR FUCKS' SAKE !!!
    FOR FUCKS' SAKE !!!
    FUCK FUCK FUCK

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    /humps 55-60mpg motorcycle

  15. #75
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Archi: the MiEV? k. It's 35k here, but even at 22k, that's still out of reach for many. LIke I said many can afford 8k-15k, no more. And the MiEV is ludicrously small; compared to other vehicules of its class it's still 2x-3x the price.
    You realize I said "new car purchases" in 2020 in my 30% prediction right? At 22k, combined with cost of ownership, the MiEV is one of the cheapest cars in America - likely comparable with a base model Nissan Versa. By 2020 (8 years is a long fucking time) it's going to be a no-brainer that if you are talking about total cost, electrics are going to completely crush gasoline vehicles. The price of the battery (which is rapidly decreasing) is more than half the total cost of a Model S right now. There are so many components that you don't even have to worry about in an electric vs. an internal combustion vehicle. Electrics are cheaper to make in virtually every way, except for the battery. Technology is evolving quickly, it's simply a matter of time. And considering the cost of gasoline in Europe, my god, going 100k miles in a car in Europe has to cost at least 20k in fuel, probably more like 30k. Comparing that to 3k in electricity, Europe needs electrics more than even America does.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    And what makes you think that? None of us can predict the future, that's just wishful thinking. Can 30% of all car-owners even afford electric cars or hybrids?
    Your repeated assertions that "none of us can predict the future" are asinine. While accurately predicting exact details is problematic, plenty of very smart people can make very educated projections. This includes about battery capacity, their weight, etc. And for things like consumable fuels, we know pretty accurately how fast we are running out of coal and oil, and that those will be nearly gone within decades. We also know that renewable energy is only going to get cheaper as advances are made. So as we make the transition to whatever the "next" fuel is, electric vehicles (along with biofuel, natural gas, and potentially hydrogen-powered) will become not only mainstream, but about the only option we have.

  17. #77
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Seriously, 1.6 EUR per litre (as it is around in many European Countries) is $7.45/US Gallon. To drive 100k miles, hell even in a 50 mpg Prius, you're paying $14,900 in fuel. In a 30 mpg car, you're paying $24,800 in fuel - and that's at CURRENT prices.

    In a "totally unaffordable" Model S, the same distance costs you less than $3700 in fuel - even less in an i-MiEV. Over $20,000 less than a 30 mpg gas car over 100k miles.

    What country are you in Ashmada? I'm itching to prove to you that there's an electric car in your country that is cheaper than any gas vehicle.

  18. #78
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    im still loling at someone thinking they can use this power to move 10+ ton trucks. lulz they pull less then 1 mil to the gallon at times, you think a plug in will last?

    And lets not even think about the size of the batteries. holly hell. LOL we are a long ways off from anything that is Industrial can be changed at all.

    Even Obama had to face that fact lol

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejet View Post
    im still loling at someone thinking they can use this power to move 10+ ton trucks. lulz they pull less then 1 mil to the gallon at times, you think a plug in will last?

    And lets not even think about the size of the batteries. holly hell. LOL we are a long ways off from anything that is Industrial can be changed at all.

    Even Obama had to face that fact lol
    My state allows 120k lb trucks, or 60 tons. And you are correct, batteries won't cut it without some MAJOR advances. But there are plenty of other options such as hydrogen or natural gas that burn cleaner than diesel.

    And I have no idea what this has to do with Obama... ?

  20. #80
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    When he made US auto lines have an average of nearly 55 miles to the gallon by 2025. Trucks that run diesel only have to get to around 10~15(and this is for their line) thus trucks wont have any effect all that much.

    lol that line was not to be the focus, just an added jab at ev tech right now. If they can get me from one side of the US to the other side in 20~30min charge someday I would be all for it. That is way far off , I myself have my money on hydrogen powered cars. the swis still backing that?

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