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  1. #521
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    Well its still a carrot on a stick, which is nothing new.*And wont be changed, which is fine i guess

    Whatever happened to MMOs that focused on the stor..fuck nvm

    I'm not faulting Anet for their system, because leveling and leveled content essentially enables exploration and helps users really focus on completing starter areas to learn more lore. But its punishing "endgame" and a bold as fuck statement to say that the entire game is endgame.

    I just think its a lazy way out of actually developing Lv 80 content thats challenging since you can get to level 80 by not leaving town or even exploring the normal story world.

  2. #522

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    Quote Originally Posted by sedna View Post
    Not sure if serious. They aren't respawning. Even after changing position, they still show as used nodes to me 12 hours later.
    The respawn isn't a set time. Nor will it be the same for every node. Especially noticeable when two are right next to eachother, and one comes back the next time you swing by while the other one doesn't.

  3. #523

    Without all content rewarding equally, can't really call starter zones endgame because killing shit in Orr will just be that much better all around. In some respects, it's forced capping biting them in the ass. I can understand why they did it, but keeping players interested long term is another matter. For the moment, their only promised allure is new events someone may not have seen when in an area prior. Unfortunately, without a better to track events and ideally cheaper WP transit within zones, it'd pretty easy to miss 'em.

    Not everyone can thrive on playing dress up, doubly so if what you'd like comes from something you don't like. I still think the reqs on legendaries are BS as an example, but whatever. Right now, I guess I'd say the game feels more like a console title with an online option rather than more of an MMO. There's just... something needed beyond the bug fixes to give it that aura of persistence. Feeling like you don't really grow may be just that.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
    The respawn isn't a set time. Nor will it be the same for every node. Especially noticeable when two are right next to eachother, and one comes back the next time you swing by while the other one doesn't.
    The fact that I've watched the past 30 respawns come back in visually (not to mention can't harvest prior to this visual respawn) at the 5 hour mark (at the very least regarding the two oric nodes in Frostgorge) begs to differ with you. I am not saying that all nodes in all zones operate on this timer as I am aware that things like rich veins take quite a bit longer. I am saying, however, that the two nodes in Frostgorge, which are the ones I'm referencing in relation to not respawning, have been respawning on a 5 hour clock reliably. They have been doing so daily for the past two weeks of me tracking it to try to nail down respawns for nodes that concern me.

  5. #525
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    Why are people so hooked on this "every level is endgame" shit? You seem to all be completely misunderstanding what they meant by that statement. All they meant was the entire game will have fun events and tons of shit to do, rather than layering it all on at 80 and making 1-79 boring as fuck like... well, most other MMOs. It has abso-fucking-lutely nothing do with rewards.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    Why are people so hooked on this "every level is endgame" shit? You seem to all be completely misunderstanding what they meant by that statement. All they meant was the entire game will have fun events and tons of shit to do, rather than layering it all on at 80 and making 1-79 boring as fuck like... well, most other MMOs. It has abso-fucking-lutely nothing do with rewards.

  7. #527
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    You know what seems interesting, and might fall into the category of a complaint if you care about such things, is that they seem to be nuking alot of shit on the official forums. Mostly the forums are terrible and the people are retarded, but it seems like there's been quite a few complaint threads and posts getting deleted lately. It's starting to feel like they're trying to keep up the PR "nothing to see here" attitude, and just deleting the fuck out of anything negative... which kind of negates the whole point of a public forum when your game isn't running right.

    I mean... really. What did you expect? People to keep sucking your cocks because you had the prettiest waterfall ever at your Tokyo event, but in the actual game you can't figure out how to keep an NPC from getting stuck? Might as well just shut the forums down until you get everything under control, cause it's all going to be bitching.

  8. #528
    I'm almost as bad as Mazmaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohemgee View Post
    Except Kiarax is right. You do the exact same shit from 1-79 as you do at 80. Exactly the fucking same.... The problem is, apparently your average gamer doesn't like that anymore. Even though that's exactly how 90% of MMOs were done pre-WoW.

    Basically people want something that isn't WoW, but when that happens people complain it's not like WoW. This is the current paradox of the current MMO player.

  9. #529
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    The only argument against that, once you reach level 80 by going through the normal content, then what? Its a lack of foresight to not develop Lv 80 content (thats sustainable). Its more of a problem with the game design in general that harkens back to the grind for appearance and BS legendary gear.

    Its pretentious to defend your 1-80 leveling experience as end game content because its circular logic (thats what im trying to get at)

    Kiarax is right, you do dynamic events from 1-80. But thats something that should go over everyones head

    There should be an MMO thats 1 to 50 (assuming 50 is a random level cap) as a single/multi player experience with drop in/drop out instance experiences to churn a decent story w/ or w/o friends (a la SWTOR) but at the max level, you actually have a deep, dynamic, and engaging end game that you want to be invested in that opens up for you. Its horrible wishful thinking and I don't want to shit up a thread meant to shit up a game, but I really hate that quote since its misleading as fuck.

  10. #530

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohemgee View Post
    The only argument against that, once you reach level 80 by going through the normal content, then what? Its a lack of foresight to not develop Lv 80 content (thats sustainable)
    This game shipped with more "end game" content than any MMO has ever shipped with.

    There should be an MMO thats 1 to 50 (assuming 50 is a random level cap) as a single/multi player experience with drop in/drop out instance experiences to churn a decent story w/ or w/o friends (a la SWTOR) but at the max level, you actually have a deep, dynamic, and engaging end game that you want to be invested in that opens up for you. Its horrible wishful thinking and I don't want to shit up a thread meant to shit up a game, but I really hate that quote since its misleading as fuck.
    Why should leveling up be a single player co-op game and the MMO start at the level cap, instead of the MMO starting at level1 like in GW2? GW2 is a huge upgrade and leap forward with the MMO genre, let's stop trying to go back to the old style of MMO's please. GW2 is a next-gen MMO, and will set a mold for all future MMO's to expand on.

  11. #531
    I'm almost as bad as Mazmaz
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    Why is that content suddenly not fun once you hit 80? Why would my fun in WvW suddenly stop once I hit 80 exactly? What's changed other then your own perception that you need phat lootz to continue playing?

    This is the paradox in play.

  12. #532

    delete

  13. #533

    Other games at least tend to develop skills or give new ones altogether. It only takes a short time to unlock each weapon. Once that's done, there's really nothing to look forward to. If I knew I could get some variant of Hundred Blades that shoots air slices in a short conal arc in front of me, you bet I'd probably be doing whatever to learn that and then some for all the weapons. Literally make it require shit from different zones and people will have to "explore" too. It'd also go a long way in encouraging different play styles and getting people to look into different equipment choices. Yeah, cookie cutter shit will happen, but I'd also say it's happening now.

    More varied loot pools wouldn't hurt, either. Like, you can't craft or find normal drops of certain stat combos. Why not? And while sigils add a slight layer of customization, why not other little perks like improving specific skills, reducing (specific) element damage, and so on without needing full sigil sets. Yeah, the general mechanics of Kill X, Fetch Y, Go To Z, and Defend Q haven't changed in MMOs over time, but they're also not going to as long as we're stuck with the keyboard/mouse/controller interface. These all do eventually become monotonous, but dangling carrots does help extend their lifespans. The trick is to just not be too obscene with it... like the legendaries. Then most people just won't bother.

  14. #534
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    I'm an elitist scumbag! It just hurts my head to think a leveling experience is what people call end game regardless of rewards. It's a skewed perception depending on your pace through the content.

    Also this game is solid. But I grew increasingly distant from it when I realized I had nothing to lose from not logging on in a while because of work.

  15. #535

    Other games at least tend to develop skills or give new ones altogether. It only takes a short time to unlock each weapon. Once that's done, there's really nothing to look forward to.
    You don't unlock every utility/elite until way past level80 100%ing every zone for story quests, so you're constantly unlocking new utility skills and new elites, as well as gaining new traits and trait combos at 40/60. Were you just not spending traits/SP or something?

    You also go from 1 stat combo, to 2 stat combos on gear at 35, then 3 at 55(or is it 60? I forget), letting you customize your character further with additional stat combination/builds. You're also constantly getting better and cooler looking gear to transmute to and look completely different.

  16. #536

    I considered it more as a lot of trait options just being useless. Think FFXI merits.

    But maybe that's more of a Warrior problem than other classes. Nothing's stopping the general idea from meshing between the two systems, though. "Customized skills" can also carry penalties along with their boosts, like my earlier HB example maybe adding 4 seconds to recast and whatnot.

  17. #537
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    They should've just left it at level 20 cap like GW2 so people really got the idea of what this game is about (levels are near meaningless). Or hell, go old school and take levels out completely. Getting skill points entirely from map completion would have been a better way to go imo.

  18. #538

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    I considered it more as a lot of trait options just being useless. Think FFXI merits.
    Then you are spending your points incorrectly or something. Traits double as "stat points" as well, so you're adding stats to your char AND additional bonuses to your skills. Builds are CENTERED around traits, traits MAKE your character unique, completely customizing it to fit your needs. There's a gigantic difference between a level30 guardian scaled to 80 in WVW vs a level80 guardian in WVW(same for every class), this is traits, gear, skills, etc.

    Traits make classes what they are, make builds what they are, without traits this game would be incredibly boring and everyone would be the same(Looking at you, diablo3 pre-paragon).

  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    You don't unlock every utility/elite until way past level80 100%ing every zone for story quests, so you're constantly unlocking new utility skills and new elites, as well as gaining new traits and trait combos at 40/60. Were you just not spending traits/SP or something?

    You also go from 1 stat combo, to 2 stat combos on gear at 35, then 3 at 55(or is it 60? I forget), letting you customize your character further with additional stat combination/builds. You're also constantly getting better and cooler looking gear to transmute to and look completely different.
    The point is that you can't fully customize your gear with the stats you want to reward your efforts to 400 because crafting is pretty much a cookie cutter recipe for everything.


    Lv30 vs lv80 guardian is a no shit comment.


    Small cap with merits would make more sense since you can literally use 3 skills and save points for a legendary

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Other games at least tend to develop skills or give new ones altogether. It only takes a short time to unlock each weapon. Once that's done, there's really nothing to look forward to. If I knew I could get some variant of Hundred Blades that shoots air slices in a short conal arc in front of me, you bet I'd probably be doing whatever to learn that and then some for all the weapons. Literally make it require shit from different zones and people will have to "explore" too. It'd also go a long way in encouraging different play styles and getting people to look into different equipment choices. Yeah, cookie cutter shit will happen, but I'd also say it's happening now.

    More varied loot pools wouldn't hurt, either. Like, you can't craft or find normal drops of certain stat combos. Why not? And while sigils add a slight layer of customization, why not other little perks like improving specific skills, reducing (specific) element damage, and so on without needing full sigil sets. Yeah, the general mechanics of Kill X, Fetch Y, Go To Z, and Defend Q haven't changed in MMOs over time, but they're also not going to as long as we're stuck with the keyboard/mouse/controller interface. These all do eventually become monotonous, but dangling carrots does help extend their lifespans. The trick is to just not be too obscene with it... like the legendaries. Then most people just won't bother.
    I've never understood why people point out as having only 5 skills tied to a weapon as a bad thing. Let's look at the alternatives shall we?

    In WoW you get SO MANY SKILLS that you can mash your face against the keyboard and still probably come out alright, or some ultimately become useless.

    In FFXI you had some variation but then it got to the point that everybody was using the same weaponskills until something new and better came along.

    Why is having 5 skills but having them ALL be useful at all times a bad thing? The variation comes from different utility skills and trait setups. It is a perfect balance between the two alternatives and one that they can forever add on to without outdating previous skills as they see fit.

    Also the legendaries are not in any way shape or form too hard. The dungeon requirements are laughable, the gold/material requirements you get by just playing the game. I made like 8 gold yesterday just doing dungeons and fucking around in Orr. The karma/skill point requirements you will get from gathering the gold, or vice versa. The requirements are fine.

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