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  1. #141
    Ridill
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    presumably he's talking about the half of the time in each phase where you can't do that >.>

  2. #142
    Bagel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    presumably he's talking about the half of the time in each phase where you can't do that >.>
    Yeah, this. He does 3 draw flames for us, and we block the 1st and 3rd before he moves into 3rd phase. That 2nd draw flame that goes unblocked seems to end up burning out our healers by the time we get to phase 3. Maybe it's just a healer issue then?

    The lowest we've gotten him so far is 13%, so I feel like if people could carry themselves instead of someone else needing to do it for them, he'd just be dead already.

  3. #143
    Campaign
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    save raid cooldowns rotations for it? this is should be easy especially in 25 man

  4. #144
    Ridill
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    yeah if you're getting 3, you shouldn't have needed jack shit for earth and won't need to have a bunch ready at the start of arcane, so just stack up someplace where as little fire as possible is gonna go through people and blow as many cd's as it takes on that middle one

  5. #145
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    I guess we're just being bad then and just need to get out shit together eh? Either way, our raid leader is still replacing a bunch of DPS this week, so hopefully that will at least make some amount of difference. Multiple people doing ~40k dps is just terrible.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plow View Post
    when I was pretty geared I was putting up ~42k on 5 minute lfr ultrax fights, I didn't really consider anything below 30k acceptable at that point, I suppose 25k was acceptable early on

    so, given my standards...

    you need to be able to put up 40k single target by the time you can queue for heroics, easily

    when you get geared and they're dying in 1-2 minute it should be 55k baseline


    I think for our "cleaning up" we were all around 55-65k on the last 2 bosses, which both have periods of standing around waiting for shit to become targetable, and it was close, I was disappointed with how low we were.


    Challenges people need to run 150-200k sustained on trash, and if they're sub 50k on bosses they're prob barely capable of pushing bronze, which is actually extremely easy in any and all of them.
    So I geared up myself after hitting 90 with the engineer hat, mostly pvp gear (to cheat ilvl) and gemmed/enchanted up and got myself near hitcap/expcap as tank (no tank gear yet) and reforges, plus the arena weapon. So at the moment I'm running a hybrid setup. I can DPS if needed but otherwise I'll tank in the current gear.

    The difference between good people and bad people really shows this time around. If you knew your class somewhat decently you should still be able to pull off 40k DPS before gearing up properly in heroics. But seeing how people are doing 15-30k DPS partially heroic geared is really depressing, considering how I dish out 100k per pull (aoe) and the occasionally "good" players are dishing out 120k.

    I see why 40k is the acceptable figure. Trash goes down decently quick if everyone is doing that at least, but hardly.

    Oh well. At least with the new mechanics, as DK I can tank in this PvP(DPS) gear with no repercussions. No one's complained yet after 10~ heroics lol. It probably won't work as well if I was Paladin/War.

    If I raid tonight I'm just gonna tank using this setup. See if anyone complains. This is the best I can gear myself up with in a day lol. But the reason why I didn't shoot for tank gear when gearing up was because it's highly possible I'll be DPSing since I was so slow at levelling the guild guys got another tank in. But thinking about it, they took 2 hours to down the first boss, Stone Guards. Apparently a warlock was doing 25k dps lol (he claims being good at pvp and being able to hit 90 in 2 days = good at the game lol). We'll see.

    I've yet to see anyone do 150k on trash (even huge groups) though, and challenge mode scales down to 463 right? On bosses 80k seems quite normal, and as tank I do 60k for now. But 150k on groups of trash seems quite difficult to reach =/

    And holy moly meta-gems are expensive. 1000g per gem lol. It's painful ;__;

  7. #147
    Bagel
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    Oh it's absolutely pathetic some of the damage people are doing at 90. I've seen so many that are doing less than what was considered good at 85. How the shit is that possible?

    As for the pvp gear thing to "cheat ilvl", with the new way stats are set up it can actually be a benefit to wear the gear. A pve and pvp item of similar ilvl are also similar in stats, since the new pvp stats don't take away from your secondary stats anymore. Hell when they released the honor gear, it was almost all better than heroic dungeon gear. Conquest gear still is, and is even better than LFR for the most part from a pve perspective. Obviously things like gem sockets + bonuses can sway it one way or the other.

    We actually had a huge argument in guild the other night between some people over that. One side was "who gives a fuck where it comes from, an upgrade is an upgrade", with the other side being "you should NEVER wear pvp gear in pve, ever, even if it has higher stats because it's pvp gear".

  8. #148
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korialstrasz View Post
    with the other side being "you should NEVER wear pvp gear in pve, ever, even if it has higher stats because it's pvp gear".
    gkick them all

    srsly

    week 1 4 piece pvp absolutely clowned anything else available, it wasn't even remotely close

    even if it hadn't been, "you shouldn't use gear with better stats because it's pvp gear" is fucking mind boggling

  9. #149
    The 69th Donor
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    I've been using PvP gear for everything since mid-Cata. I can't be fucked to farm (and store, ouch my inventory) two sets of gear. Granted I barely PvE except for dailies and solo dungeon runs (and holiday bosses), but still. If it makes me gimp then so be it, I prefer to PvP and I'm going to gear for what I enjoy.

    Sad thing is I don't even do "high level" PvP - I don't have an arena team and I don't even do RBGs because most of the people in trade who want RBG groups want to see that you have an arena rating, so I just random, which is fun. I'm probably "doing it wrong" but I don't care, shit's fun.

  10. #150
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    even if it hadn't been, "you shouldn't use gear with better stats because it's pvp gear" is fucking mind boggling
    In WoTLK when I first joined this was severely rampant I remembered. Even the guy I was playing with in the same room next to me (a BC veteran) just beelined for the same response, I can remember clearly I was comparing an ilvl 180 something belt to an epic ilvl 226 belt. But I didn't know better at the time but logically I did think "isn't the greater stamina, str, and X stat better than -100 stam, -30str, -85 haste?" etc.

    But yeh it seems people either clued on to the fact it's equivalent/better or no one bothered to check me. Can't wait until I land in LFR haha when someone would invariably tie a wipe to the tank's gear which happens to be pvp and at no fault of other people. I can clearly remember solo tanking ultraxion until enrage, and the raid blamed me for the wipe because I wasn't in tank gear (yet I didn't die, co-tank got fading light x3) but yet I was blowing everyone out the water 10k more than the top dps. And yet I got blamed lol.

    I've been using PvP gear for everything since mid-Cata.
    In this case I'm happy this expansion benefitted you because of the "fix" of the secondary stats, which will bring you up on par with heroic dungeon gear, as discussed above. Plus, I believe you're on a PvP realm, so you get the added benefit of not being caught naked with no PvP gear.

    Otherwise I quite enjoy this change/fix to the PvP gear. I don't think I can say the same for Pala/War though due to how haste (found in 3 of the pieces I think) can't benefit tanking as much as it does for DK. So it might be a case of using it for DPS only. Still, not like I'm gonna level them anytime soon but I was just thinking about it while bored at work.

  11. #151
    Bagel
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    I just can't stand those people who absolutely refuse to accept that things have changed. We even linked various 463 pve with their 483 pvp counterparts, and he just wasn't having any of it. Baddies gonna bad I guess.

    Luckily he's not in the same raid team as me, so there's that at least.

  12. #152
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    Aye.

    On a different note, I loved Silvershard Mines! I was skeptical at first, but to keep control of a moving target was actually more fun than the usual "stand at base and defend" type thing. We were everywhere =D :: even with no communication, we just won with a close match.

  13. #153
    The 69th Donor
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    I haven't tried the new BGs yet. I like that they've come up with some new objectives though. "Defend this node" and "Capture the flag" are getting old. That's why I don't understand all of the Strands hate, it's a unique BG that isn't the same rehashed shit.

    I still WTB a free-for-all BG. 25 players per team, the only objective is kills. Team with the most kills after X amount of time wins. No resources, no "loot this item and use it to erase some of your team's losses," no insta-win flag caps, nothing. Just kill or be killed. Can rez an infinite number of times and get right back into the fray.

  14. #154
    blax n gunz
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    If they removed Vann/Drek that's exactly what AV would become.

  15. #155
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    I haven't tried the new BGs yet. I like that they've come up with some new objectives though. "Defend this node" and "Capture the flag" are getting old. That's why I don't understand all of the Strands hate, it's a unique BG that isn't the same rehashed shit.

    I still WTB a free-for-all BG. 25 players per team, the only objective is kills. Team with the most kills after X amount of time wins. No resources, no "loot this item and use it to erase some of your team's losses," no insta-win flag caps, nothing. Just kill or be killed. Can rez an infinite number of times and get right back into the fray.
    that's pretty much what temple is except it's a 10 man

    it's basically stay alive and kill other shit, with a few things making it harder to stay alive and easier to kill shit

    mine is absolutely terrible for pugging, and probably even worse in the healing circle jerk that is rateds, though I haven't tried any yet in panda

  16. #156
    Bagel
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    A larger version of temple that's either 25 or 40 man would be absolutely fantastic.

    On the topic of PVP, has anyone else noticed that alliance acts as if anything flag/orb related should be avoided like the plague? It doesn't matter where it is, they refuse to touch it, and rage if anyone else tries to. I've lost so many EotS because horde has free reign of the center, while alliance 2 caps while failing to ever get a 3rd which is "a guaranteed win, fuck the flag".

    In temple it's the same way. I've seen so many alliance stand near the orbs, as if they're protecting them so the horde don't get them or some shit, rather that just grabbing the damn thing themselves. The few that do manage to figure out that orb = good, they run it to the edge of the map where it gives fuck all for points anyways. It also seems to be the only BG where they'll focus down healers too, which is funny seeing as healing is nerfed considerably on someone holding an orb as well as the holder taking increased damage, making it so you actually want to ignore the healers until all enemy orb holders are dead.

  17. #157
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    Someone repeatedly killed themselves at Galleons spawn to spell out a gigantic "PENIS!" on the ground. People fucked with it and ruined in, but holy lol it was funny to see.

  18. #158
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korialstrasz View Post
    A larger version of temple that's either 25 or 40 man would be absolutely fantastic.

    On the topic of PVP, has anyone else noticed that alliance acts as if anything flag/orb related should be avoided like the plague? It doesn't matter where it is, they refuse to touch it, and rage if anyone else tries to. I've lost so many EotS because horde has free reign of the center, while alliance 2 caps while failing to ever get a 3rd which is "a guaranteed win, fuck the flag".

    In temple it's the same way. I've seen so many alliance stand near the orbs, as if they're protecting them so the horde don't get them or some shit, rather that just grabbing the damn thing themselves. The few that do manage to figure out that orb = good, they run it to the edge of the map where it gives fuck all for points anyways. It also seems to be the only BG where they'll focus down healers too, which is funny seeing as healing is nerfed considerably on someone holding an orb as well as the holder taking increased damage, making it so you actually want to ignore the healers until all enemy orb holders are dead.
    In EotS pugs it really is a vastly superior strategy to go for 3 bases than 2 + flag. It fails when you're just outmatched and can't win fights, or when too many people refuse to listen and keep jacking off in mid. Barring either of those 2 scenarios (which are losses no matter what strategy you're using), it really is guaranteed win.

    As to temple... yeah, I'm astounded how people manage to fuck up a bg that's soooo simple so fucking badly. I give some the benefit of the doubt to being squishy and waiting for plate wearer/spriest/hunter or whatever to pick up, but seriously new things in WoW never fail to impress with people's stupidity.

  19. #159
    Bagel
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    It's a good strat for sure if it can be coordinated. From my experience it's usually 2-3 guarding each of 2 bases, a few in mid, and a steady stream of "heroes" trying to solo cap 1 of the other 2 bases.

  20. #160
    Ridill
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    which is because those few people jacking off in mid are refusing to help cap bases because SQUIRR-- er OMG FLAG

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