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  1. #41
    I'm almost as bad as Mazmaz
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    At least they got one of the 50 necro bugs down.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbyprime View Post
    ... they nerfed ele? Wow, all things considered they should be buffing that <_< by which I mean fix the damn bugs.
    They nerfed an extremely overpowered no skill ability that needed a nerf.

  3. #43

    People always cry when their class gets a nerf, its a good thing that warrior was nerfed into the ground during the beta's we can actually HOPE that each update will bring us a buff.

    Thank god they relaxed the anti farm code, lets hope its fixed the orichalcum fiasco and i can get to make some gold again.

  4. #44
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    I just kinda laugh at all the people bitching about nerfs. My class has been nerfed every single time they've adjusted anything with it. It's whatever, just deal with it.

  5. #45

    Honestly, I don't really care about Gsword being nerfed on Guardian as much as I care about them readjusting my damn buttons.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuishen View Post
    I just kinda laugh at all the people bitching about nerfs. My class has been nerfed every single time they've adjusted anything with it. It's whatever, just deal with it.
    Are you really comparing the effectiveness and overall sufficiency of Thief to Guardian? That ridiculousness aside, Guardian's received a nerf every patch as well (mostly in relation to Retaliation, primarily the yolk of Ranger and Thief bitchfests) and have received no buffs or fixes to the myriad lacking and downright unusable abilities and weapons that we have. Thief is retarded, Warrior is retarded, both deserve some nerfs. Necromancer and Guardian need some heavy overhauling and bug fixes. Cheering for and not being against nerfing a class that's already shit aside from one thing (bunkering up at nodes in sPvP) is pretty dumb, especially when it's being compared to an OP class being nerfed.

    Completely invalidating an entire weapon for a class that only has three genuinely usable weapons is absurd, especially since it was our most effective AoE (and in most cases single target) weapon, a virtue that Guardian does not get in many places.

    As it stands, Guardian's only strength is staying alive via Altruistic Healing, which affects only you, and throwing out anemic and redundant boons to nearby allies. Warrior and Engineer do support better from a boon standpoint, as the only two that Guardian can do nearly fulltime that Warrior or Engineer can't do more effectively are Retaliation and Protection, Retaliation being nerfed patch by patch to probably become more useless than tits on a bull. Our AoE burst heals are confined to Staff 2 and 4, a 1000~1300 heal on the second burst of 2 and a 2000~2500 on a fully charged (4 second rooting channel) 4, which Engineer potentially also does better, while "Hold the Line!" and Virtue of Justice provide 1,500~2000HP regenration (over 6~10 or so seconds depending). Not even going to mention damage since we just lost a pretty massive chunk of our already abysmal DPS.

    Classes such as Warrior and Thief should be the targets of negative balancing at the moment while classes like Necromancer and Guardian are balanced positively. Ideally they'd separate PvP and PvE skills to help keep nerfs to PvE content separate from PvP, but that won't happen for whatever reason.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuishen View Post
    I just kinda laugh at all the people bitching about nerfs. My class has been nerfed every single time they've adjusted anything with it. It's whatever, just deal with it.
    First patch in this thread = fixing a bug, second patch = huge underwater buff, no nerfs, third (today) patch = slight damage nerf on pistol whip (sucks but not huge), semi-nerf/semi-buff on basilisk. Improved stun time is nice, making it possible to stun break was a necessary change and should have been that way in the first place as far as PvP goes, doesn't effect you in PvE (buff only in that instance). Meanwhile for Guardians the usefulness of Symbol of Wrath got completely cut in half today by doubling the cooldown. Not only is this a pretty big aoe damage drop for GS overall, but it also completely nerfs the usefulness of symbol = heal trait since you can't keep a symbol up for nearly as often. The justification for this? They want to nerf retaliation which is fucking worthless in PvE. As a further kick in the balls they forced a hotkey change on us which fucks with GS Guardians for... no reason at all (seriously why is there no way to change them around to your own suiting if they're gonna make changes like this a month+ after release?). Guardians have a right to be annoyed here. They also made one of our (admittedly worthless) traits do nothing now, it was supposed to extend the duration of Retaliation from 3 to 5 seconds, now with or without the trait you get 3 seconds either way. Cool. There's about a billion different ways they could have made adjustments if they wanted to nerf the usefulness of retaliation in PvP, this was the worst way to go about it.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Are you really comparing the effectiveness and overall sufficiency of Thief to Guardian? That ridiculousness aside, Guardian's received a nerf every patch as well (mostly in relation to Retaliation, primarily the yolk of Ranger and Thief bitchfests) and have received no buffs or fixes to the myriad lacking and downright unusable abilities and weapons that we have. Thief is retarded, Warrior is retarded, both deserve some nerfs. Necromancer and Guardian need some heavy overhauling and bug fixes. Cheering for and not being against nerfing a class that's already shit aside from one thing (bunkering up at nodes in sPvP) is pretty dumb, especially when it's being compared to an OP class being nerfed.

    Completely invalidating an entire weapon for a class that only has three genuinely usable weapons is absurd, especially since it was our most effective AoE (and in most cases single target) weapon, a virtue that Guardian does not get in many places.

    As it stands, Guardian's only strength is staying alive via Altruistic Healing, which affects only you, and throwing out anemic and redundant boons to nearby allies. Warrior and Engineer do support better from a boon standpoint, as the only two that Guardian can do nearly fulltime that Warrior or Engineer can't do more effectively are Retaliation and Protection, Retaliation being nerfed patch by patch to probably become more useless than tits on a bull. Our AoE burst heals are confined to Staff 2 and 4, a 1000~1300 heal on the second burst of 2 and a 2000~2500 on a fully charged (4 second rooting channel) 4, which Engineer potentially also does better, while "Hold the Line!" and Virtue of Justice provide 1,500~2000HP regenration (over 6~10 or so seconds depending). Not even going to mention damage since we just lost a pretty massive chunk of our already abysmal DPS.

    Classes such as Warrior and Thief should be the targets of negative balancing at the moment while classes like Necromancer and Guardian are balanced positively. Ideally they'd separate PvP and PvE skills to help keep nerfs to PvE content separate from PvP, but that won't happen for whatever reason.
    Thief needs some buffs but I'm all for nerfing backstab builds in to the fucking ground.

    I want to skirmish rather than get 3 shot by most classes because my class is squishy even with 2700 armor and 18k hp.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arelian View Post
    Honestly, I don't really care about Gsword being nerfed on Guardian as much as I care about them readjusting my damn buttons.
    i got used to it within a few hours. it sucked but whatever -_-

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syntex View Post
    Thief needs some buffs but I'm all for nerfing backstab builds in to the fucking ground.

    I want to skirmish rather than get 3 shot by most classes because my class is squishy even with 2700 armor and 18k hp.
    Yeah thief builds that arent winbutton Backstab need some love, however it concerns me greatly that they're nerfing a class as poorly equipped as Guardian and pretty much makes me think that they won't be fixing any of the less favorable abilities/weapons of any class any time soon.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Are you really comparing the effectiveness and overall sufficiency of Thief to Guardian? That ridiculousness aside, Guardian's received a nerf every patch as well (mostly in relation to Retaliation, primarily the yolk of Ranger and Thief bitchfests) and have received no buffs or fixes to the myriad lacking and downright unusable abilities and weapons that we have. Thief is retarded, Warrior is retarded, both deserve some nerfs. Necromancer and Guardian need some heavy overhauling and bug fixes. Cheering for and not being against nerfing a class that's already shit aside from one thing (bunkering up at nodes in sPvP) is pretty dumb, especially when it's being compared to an OP class being nerfed.
    I'm not going to lie and say I know anything about guardian, I've only played it a little bit in beta. Do I think it was a dick move to move the skills around? Sure. Several people including myself have given many workarounds to the OPness of Thief. As for the comparison between the two classes, I don't see why that is relevant because all classes should be on an even playing field, thus they should be comparable to one another.

    My point still remains. It's funny watching people fret so much about balance changes in a game that's not even 2 months old yet. If they really want to get into esports like they're touting, then they'll nerf what needs to be nerfed and buff what needs to be buffed. Let's not turn this thread into another Thief bitchfest. There are ways to avoid that shitty backstab build, and nobody has presented any good reasons as to why those ways don't work when I've stated them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax
    First patch in this thread = fixing a bug, second patch = huge underwater buff, no nerfs, third (today) patch = slight damage nerf on pistol whip (sucks but not huge), semi-nerf/semi-buff on basilisk.
    I was referring to since release, but I guess if you want to nitpick, Thief did get a buff in beta regarding initiative regeneration and Dagger Storm (not that I've ever seen another Thief using that skill in pvp.)

    Fixing bugs do not count as "buffs" OR "nerfs", the Heartseeker missing thing was clearly a bug. Those two things aside, let's look at the update history for Thief.

    9/14 Update: Pretty major nerf to Heartseeker.
    9/17 Update: Minor nerf to a trait ability, Descent of Shadows.
    10/7 Update: Pistol Whip nerf and nerf to Basilisk in pvp. (I agree that it should have been breakable from the beginning though.)

    That "massive underwater buff" affected 5 classes, not just Thief. My original statement stands. Any time they have adjusted anything for Thief, it's been a nerf.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuishen View Post
    Do I think it was a dick move to move the skills around? Sure.
    Not even complaining about that. They added an entire 10 seconds onto the recast time for Symbol of Wrath which was a major portion of Greatsword's DPS and its most major form of support via Writ of the Merciful, effectively crippling the weapon.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Not even complaining about that. They added an entire 10 seconds onto the recast time for Symbol of Wrath which was a major portion of Greatsword's DPS and its most major form of support via Writ of the Merciful, effectively crippling the weapon.
    /shrug I don't know enough about class to comment on that. Just saying it's not worth making such a big fuss about, because if it's really bad, then they'll adjust it again in an attempt to find a middle ground. They're not going to institute class balance changes based on people raging about something. If that were the case then they would have adjusted Thief and Warrior a lot more than they have a long time ago.

  14. #54

    Symbol of Wrath timer increase just seems odd to me.

    EDIT: Crap I don't like the new layout. I had the keys memorized for my GSW abilities.

  15. #55

    Why the hell are people still crying "nerf warrior"? warrior has received NO positive boosts in the past 5 months, its all been nerf nerf nerf since BWE1. The complaints come from people who seriously don't understand how difficult it is to stand there in any situation and be able to melee effectively as a warrior, i'm lucky if i can manage to get maybe 3 or 4 swings out of HB before having to dodge roll from something.

    Screwing retaliation again on guardians is very sucky, but you can't tell me that retaliation wasn't OP when the game went live, one guardian being able to destroy a shitload of siege because of a single combo, Not cool.
    Pistol whip spam was again very annoying if you were coming up against thieves who used it & basilisk venom needed to have the ability to break it added, every other stun allows you to.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Pistol whip spam was again very annoying if you were coming up against thieves who used it & basilisk venom needed to have the ability to break it added, every other stun allows you to.
    Any spam build is annoying imo. And Basilisk Venom isn't a stun so I understand why they initially didn't let stun breakers get rid of it, but like I said before, I think it should have been breakable from the beginning. The way I see the nerfs to Thief are: They're making it so shitty players can't get away with easy mode on this class anymore.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Why the hell are people still crying "nerf warrior"? warrior has received NO positive boosts in the past 5 months, its all been nerf nerf nerf since BWE1. The complaints come from people who seriously don't understand how difficult it is to stand there in any situation and be able to melee effectively as a warrior, i'm lucky if i can manage to get maybe 3 or 4 swings out of HB before having to dodge roll from something.

    Screwing retaliation again on guardians is very sucky, but you can't tell me that retaliation wasn't OP when the game went live, one guardian being able to destroy a shitload of siege because of a single combo, Not cool.
    Pistol whip spam was again very annoying if you were coming up against thieves who used it & basilisk venom needed to have the ability to break it added, every other stun allows you to.
    yeah cuz warrior needs boosts. news flash: lots of classes have to stand in melee to do damage, guardian included. difference is, most of them don't have the best/second best melee burst damage, best ranged damage, second highest survivability, and immense support potential rolled into one class.

    that aside, I couldnt give a shit less about retaliation nerfs. it's the fact that theyre nerfing other things to nerf retaliation that pisses me the fuck off.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Why the hell are people still crying "nerf warrior"? warrior has received NO positive boosts in the past 5 months, its all been nerf nerf nerf since BWE1. The complaints come from people who seriously don't understand how difficult it is to stand there in any situation and be able to melee effectively as a warrior, i'm lucky if i can manage to get maybe 3 or 4 swings out of HB before having to dodge roll from something.

    Screwing retaliation again on guardians is very sucky, but you can't tell me that retaliation wasn't OP when the game went live, one guardian being able to destroy a shitload of siege because of a single combo, Not cool.
    Pistol whip spam was again very annoying if you were coming up against thieves who used it & basilisk venom needed to have the ability to break it added, every other stun allows you to.
    I don't wanna see Warriors nerfed personally, but they're indisputably the best class in the game right now. Highest damage output by far, massive HP, high def, some nice support/utility skills. They really have no flaws to the class and Anet should be happy with them. The issue is that they're nerfing other classes already weaker than Warrior overall without touching Warrior, when they should be bringing other classes up to the same standard. I think there's a handful of things on Warrior that could use an adjustment/nerf, but fixing other classes would both be a higher priority and alleviate the need for some of the adjustments.

  19. #59
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    Update Notes Thread

    Warrior is only really great against anything that will stay still long enough. With the exception of rifle and maybe mainhand axe nearly every hard hitting skill can be dodged simply by never stopping moving. In groups where chain cc is an option warrior rips things to shreds without the person having much to say though.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eanae View Post
    Warrior is only really great against anything that will stay still long enough.
    So everything not archer mobs, lol. Everything else will just sit there and beat on you.

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