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  1. #61
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    I am liking the visuals and the music, but one thing that still bothers me is how undynamic the city actually is. If they could add npcs that move around town doing things based on time/day it would really eliminate that still vibe I am getting.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thiefami View Post
    I am liking the visuals and the music, but one thing that still bothers me is how undynamic the city actually is. If they could add npcs that move around town doing things based on time/day it would really eliminate that still vibe I am getting.
    Can't agree more. The town looks visually appealing but lifeless at the same time.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn View Post
    I just hope the loading screens are interesting and not pitch black nothingness. The entire experience must be immersive, even when waiting.
    In the last Live letter, Yoshi-P said they had planned to do something interesting, but the zones ended up loading so fast (as this video shows) they actually had to scrap the idea. So we will be getting black screens, but only a second or two's worth.

    I am liking the visuals and the music, but one thing that still bothers me is how undynamic the city actually is. If they could add npcs that move around town doing things based on time/day it would really eliminate that still vibe I am getting.
    Hopefully there'll be so many PC's running round it won't matter, as they'll add life - and with the new engine people running past will actually load.

    But it would be nice if the material draping off buildings and the flags etc swayed in the wind. Maybe add a few bits of wildlife running around too, like squirrels going up the trees. That'd add some more immersion.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurokikaze View Post
    SE needs to learn how to showcase a game... That video is pretty embarrassing to look at after seeing this:

    A FFXIV starting zone looks a million times more interesting than anything I have seen in this garbage video. Square Enix doesn't need to trick people with videos of crappy gameplay, crappy game world, crappy lore and crappy character models with some crappy game developer talking in the background. The only thing SE needs to do is show videos and let the game speak for itself.
    *edited to better convey my thoughts as i'm often misunderstood.

  5. #65
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    double

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agito View Post
    all they need to do is show videos and let the game speak for itself.
    Hoping they do this just to see the results. Hopefully the videos have lots of CGI too.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurokikaze View Post
    As you can see from this video... They are not. lol
    Eh. Alpha.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionsknives View Post
    In the last Live letter, Yoshi-P said they had planned to do something interesting, but the zones ended up loading so fast (as this video shows) they actually had to scrap the idea. So we will be getting black screens, but only a second or two's worth.



    Hopefully there'll be so many PC's running round it won't matter, as they'll add life - and with the new engine people running past will actually load.

    But it would be nice if the material draping off buildings and the flags etc swayed in the wind. Maybe add a few bits of wildlife running around too, like squirrels going up the trees. That'd add some more immersion.
    Well as seen in the vid the new dynamic lighting system definitely shows that the trees at least sway in the wind. Around the spot when the character is entering the Conjurors guild you can see the shadow from the foliage above slightly swaying on the ground. That alone should make it 'feel' more alive. And yeah they need more 'small' things moving around the environment even if you can't actually interact with them. Like in FFXI you had those little bugs on the ground that you wouldn't notice were there till your camera was right on them, but somehow they were always part of the zone and it made it feel more lively even if you didn't notice them specifically. They did say more 'lively' cities is something they were working on, maybe pathing for them hadn't been finished for the alpha build and we might see it later (especially if more people complain about it).

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionsknives View Post

    Hopefully there'll be so many PC's running round it won't matter, as they'll add life - and with the new engine people running past will actually load.

    But it would be nice if the material draping off buildings and the flags etc swayed in the wind. Maybe add a few bits of wildlife running around too, like squirrels going up the trees. That'd add some more immersion.

    with all the npcs sitting in one place day and night in the same position gives off such a suffocating feeling. Wildlife and flags swaying in the wind - all nice additions, but among the bigger criticisms they received at the start of 1.0 (when there were tons of people running around) were on the towns and how lifeless they were. Things may change, this is just an alpha... but on the chance they don't i'd say SE really needs to add dynamic 'day to day' town life to bring character to the cities.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Croy View Post
    Well as seen in the vid the new dynamic lighting system definitely shows that the trees at least sway in the wind. Around the spot when the character is entering the Conjurors guild you can see the shadow from the foliage above slightly swaying on the ground. That alone should make it 'feel' more alive. And yeah they need more 'small' things moving around the environment even if you can't actually interact with them. Like in FFXI you had those little bugs on the ground that you wouldn't notice were there till your camera was right on them, but somehow they were always part of the zone and it made it feel more lively even if you didn't notice them specifically. They did say more 'lively' cities is something they were working on, maybe pathing for them hadn't been finished for the alpha build and we might see it later (especially if more people complain about it).
    Defo. I noticed the trees leaves moved in the breeze, which in turn made me notice the flags weren't swaying in the same breeze haha. Little things like that break immersion imo.

    with all the npcs sitting in one place day and night in the same position gives off such a suffocating feeling.
    I guess you're right. My mind immediately just goes to the Galka lighting the lamps in Jeuno and thinks 'why bother?'. But maybe it would be nice to see the kids near the pond disappear at night for bed, and have the bars fill up at that time etc.

  11. #71
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    Static NPCs and the general sense that the game is like walking into a pretty picture was one of my biggest gripes at launch. I really hope they sort it - this vid is a step in the right direction but still a long way to go.

    Personally, I think they've already made the choice not to have wandering NPCs. Which is a shame. Sure, it makes it a pain if you're trying to find one for a quest etc. but surely they could do more...

  12. #72
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    Just to throw the question out there: if they were to do wandering NPCs in the style of Jeuno-lamp-galka or the delivery boy in Sandoria, would it still be a bit stifled if they were all not quest NPCs? IE: just flavor?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    Just to throw the question out there: if they were to do wandering NPCs in the style of Jeuno-lamp-galka or the delivery boy in Sandoria, would it still be a bit stifled if they were all not quest NPCs? IE: just flavor?
    You'd probably get some complaints if they were quest NPCs. Have you played Xenoblade? FUCK trying to find the right roaming quest NPC at the right time of day at the right location.

    I can stand a few, but I'd prefer they just be flavor NPCs. I wouldn't even mind if you couldn't interact with them. Maybe just pop up one of those floating text boxes if you get too close.

  14. #74
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    FFXII did city npcs right imo. Rabanastre and Arcadia felt alive & populated to me.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    FFXII did city npcs right imo. Rabanastre and Arcadia felt alive & populated to me.
    They also didn't need to worry about hundreds of other players instead NPCs running around either. I think a couple little moving NPCs, maybe 5-6 wandering NPCs that don't gives quests out and just give 'flavor' text is all that's needed, have small, untargetable birds or something that periodically fly onto roof tops or look for worms in the ground. Something to make the world feel alive and then players can stand in for the NPC movement part of it.

  16. #76
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    I don't think I would rule out live/roaming NPCs quite yet just from seeing the NPC speech bubble conversations upon approaching. They are on the right track. Even if it's not there in Alpha/Beta, it's such a simple thing to implement. I believe there already are various un-targetable NPCs chillin' around town... now they just gotta' make them /walk around. Hell, they figured that out a long time ago with Abyssea (unnamed NPCs fighting mobs & resting).

    XII indeed made cities feel inhabited.

  17. #77

    When 300 people are dogpiling the delivery moogle in Ul'dah I don't think anyone is gonna care that there aren't eye candy, immersion-building NPCs middling about. Flavor NPCs are kinda low on the list of concerns to me, I guess we're only dwelling on them atm I because we haven't got anything else to analyze.

    Also I prefer the separate zones structure to the open world one. The open world model tends to make things seem....smaller in a way, and certainly spread too thin. Being able to run to the end of the earth only to find "oh it seems this entire portion of the continent is bordered by a single contiguous mountain....wall.....thing" kind of takes the mystery out of the world. With zone lines there's always the concept that you aren't seeing the whole world, that there's always more to it somewhere. With the open world model you get to see everything but...that's just it I guess, you get to see everything there is to see and it kind of limits the imagination.

    In order to make an open world model work you need to take the time and energy to actually detail the whole thing and give it purpose and variety, otherwise you just wind up with the vast repetitious wastes we see in 1.0.

    As awkward as zoning from a Thanlan desert to a Black Shroud forest might be it would be just as awkward to actively transition from one environment to another in such a small window. Zone transitions can work very well if the hypothetical transition area is exhibited in the distant terrain as you approach the zone line. Think of the view of Tavnazia from Blueblade Fell (or the view of Jeuno from any of the outer areas), granted on a PC with high resolution it was obvious that the "distant" terrain was just a shrunk down model that was fairly close, but I'm referring to using vast scenic views like that to show more vast, realistic transitive areas without having to actually make them (and without us having to actually trek all the way thru them).

    Also liking the XII vibe that people have pointed out. The BGM in the video is reminiscent of the Rabanastre theme in that it's present and pleasant but not overbearing or exaggerated. The LL theme may be a nice song but it's not appropriate for something that's constantly looping in the background.

  18. #78
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    I'm still hoping they add the region that you skip when you travel from The Black Shroud to Thanalan, but I'm not holding my breath. At least that would help ease the stark differences.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    FFXII did city npcs right imo. Rabanastre and Arcadia felt alive & populated to me.
    This. I didn't play XII that much but if I remember, it was something as simple as 'town' sound effects - indistinguishable voices lost in the crowd, that kind of thing. Obviously, Gridania can't be 'busy' in the same way, but that kind of effect really helps with immersion in cities. I can't remember the majority of that game, but I do remember feeling they did the towns/cities well.

    I remember when they first started releasing info (way back before 1.0 alpha) and said "the entire game will be voice acted". Did they ever even pretend to follow up on that? I can't find the quote but it definitely implied 100% voice acted (Elder Scrolls style) not just the odd CS.

  20. #80
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    I think 'flavor' is very important considering you're trying to sell the game to new clientele and not appeal just to former players sensibilities. Even when Uldah is at it's fullest the city is still dead. That very first impression could turn any newcomer completely off. Off course 8 months from now you won't care about the flavorful roaming npcs, and useless banter. That initial impression to reel you in is the only thing that matter. And perhaps you will, every once in a while, look around and appreciate the fine details they've added to the game. Like someone mentioned xi bugs. Details, as with any work of art, is very crucial.

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