FFXIV story/lore thread

[Rocl]

Expected plot twists 1
Rocl's dreams of unique story 0

[solracht]

What this probably means:

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Ascians = Allagans is incredibly likely. How disheartening.

terrible (or great) speculation that connects everything

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-The Allagans had the world in their hands, these guys were able to control or destroy anything (primals, dragons)

-At that point the only logical thing to do was trying to gain immortality because screw dying when you're so badass. Whatever Emperor Xandes tried to do (probably in the Crystal Tower) to achieve this went terribly wrong: they woke up Zodiark in the World of Darkness, who did something similar to tempering them and turned them into what we now call Ascians.

-The Ascians then went on to influence every civilization that has existed in order to spread chaos and war (War of the Magi, Eorzean conquest, etc). What I'm about to say is sort of a joke, but: this would explain why there are allagan coins fucking EVERYWHERE.

-In the current storyline, the Ascians (namely Lahabrea) turned on the allagan mechanisms inside the Coil to help Bahamut with his regeneration. Right now it seems like the Coil is absorbing aether in the same way Dalamud was in 1.0, so helping Bahamut would definitely fuck Hydaelyn up.

Now the best part:

Zodiark, Keeper of Precepts is an Esper from the world of Ivalice. The Esper of Dark, he represents the Zodiac sign of Ophiuchus, the Serpent Holder. Zodiark is indeed a serpent, in the form that Ophiuchus is most commonly associated with, a snake. From his power of Dark, his color sign is black.

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the Serpent Holder

snake

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power of Dark

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...f_Darkness.png

-The snakes in the Coil and the Cloud of Darkness are minions of Zodiark

[Evane]

Theory

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When there is power, such as the one Allag had, conflict of opinions occur. We saw that with Nael and Gaius. The Twelve could've been a faction within the Allagan empire that had different views on how to use that power. Shit hit the fan and some were tempered by Zodiark. The twelve could've been the first echo users and with the help of the mother crystal they became the guardians (think FFX's aeon fayths) as a counter force.

[Qeomash]

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Is the Echo, perhaps, Hydaelyn's form of tempering?

[Evane]

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Is the Echo, perhaps, Hydaelyn's form of tempering?

I'm saying yes based on what's been said during Lord of the Inferno mission.

[Obsidian]

I'm saying yes based on what's been said during Lord of the Inferno mission.

I'd say Garuda is even more definitive proof. She outright says you're already "hers."

[ronin sparthos]

Which leads to the question of if your character actually possesses free will or is just a tool in a battle of Gods. So far, the answer seems to be no.

I'm also interested in why:

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The Ascian silhouettes looked like previous FF protagonists.

[Lucavi]

Which leads to the question of if your character actually possesses free will or is just a tool in a battle of Gods. So far, the answer seems to be no.

I'm also interested in why:

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The Ascian silhouettes looked like previous FF protagonists.

I don't think it really matters whether the character is a tool or not, because if you follow the storyline (as a player is going to do), you wind up serving as this selfless hero who can't ever turn away from danger anyway. Whether that's a result of the tempering or just a result of the player being the typical JRPG stubborn-as-fuck do-gooder isn't something I think the storyline is going to outright tell us.

We're doing nothing that protagonists of any other JRPG are not doing. Was Chrono "tempered" when he constantly dove into danger?

That said, it'd be interesting to see them do a storyline later where your possible tempering either gets corrupted (leading to a few quest chains where you're actually doing eeeeevil things) or a revelation that your tempering was a proto-type for a soon-to-be-revealed superior tempering (revealing a sort of Ark Angels-esque character who does everything you've already done but far, far better).

[Raldo]

That said, it'd be interesting to see them do a storyline later where your possible tempering either gets corrupted (leading to a few quest chains where you're actually doing eeeeevil things) or a revelation that your tempering was a proto-type for a soon-to-be-revealed superior tempering (revealing a sort of Ark Angels-esque character who does everything you've already done but far, far better).

Then said character becomes Sin and starts vacuuming up civilization. nom nom

[ronin sparthos]

I don't think it really matters whether the character is a tool or not, because if you follow the storyline (as a player is going to do), you wind up serving as this selfless hero who can't ever turn away from danger anyway. Whether that's a result of the tempering or just a result of the player being the typical JRPG stubborn-as-fuck do-gooder isn't something I think the storyline is going to outright tell us.

We're doing nothing that protagonists of any other JRPG are not doing. Was Chrono "tempered" when he constantly dove into danger?

That said, it'd be interesting to see them do a storyline later where your possible tempering either gets corrupted (leading to a few quest chains where you're actually doing eeeeevil things) or a revelation that your tempering was a proto-type for a soon-to-be-revealed superior tempering (revealing a sort of Ark Angels-esque character who does everything you've already done but far, far better).

It's given that JRPG heroes are often cast as idealistic, bright eyed men and women who leap into the bowels of danger to save the world but it's another thing entirely when within that story the main character is not saving the world of their own volition but because a god-type character is forcing them to do something through a subversion of free will.

It changes the entire view of the story from the viewpoint of the player and is the difference between mindless thrall and an idealist.

Crono and co. chose to save the world from Lavos and were given time gates by the planet as a means to defeat Lavos. Within the boundaries of that story, the team could have opted out at any time. They chose to save the world because well.. they're JRPG leads.

I don't expect a Final Fantasy to deeply analyze the moral grayness of their world as the Empire/Eorzea is a major black/white contrast presented to us but your character being tempered is a pretty big deal from the definition of 'tempered' we've been given by NPCs. This isn't some type of chosen one situation, you're an eternal slave to the primal that tempers you even if that primal happens to be the mothercrystal.

[Lucavi]

Well, we're given quite a bit of free reign as a tempered slave, if that's the way they want to go with it, seeing as how we really don't have to do anything at all. Not once were we forced to jump into any fight. Now, if they wanted to make a quick CS showing us wracking over in pain after having a yes/no choice to help save someone if we clicked no, then yes, you'd absolutely be onto something, and that would throw a monkey wrench into this entire "happy-go-lucky JRPG trope" thing that we have going on. As is, we only pass out when its time for us to look back into the past.

Having our patron Crystal/Primal akin to something that's looking beyond us towards a greater good - our desires be damned - would be extremely intriguing and, of course, would ultimately culminate in a boss fight at the end of some future expansion to allow us to finally rid ourselves of any outside influences and have our decisions to save the world be just that - our OWN decisions.

[ronin sparthos]

Well, we're given quite a bit of free reign as a tempered slave, if that's the way they want to go with it, seeing as how we really don't have to do anything at all. Not once were we forced to jump into any fight. Now, if they wanted to make a quick CS showing us wracking over in pain after having a yes/no choice to help save someone if we clicked no, then yes, you'd absolutely be onto something, and that would throw a monkey wrench into this entire "happy-go-lucky JRPG trope" thing that we have going on. As is, we only pass out when its time for us to look back into the past.

Having our patron Crystal/Primal akin to something that's looking beyond us towards a greater good - our desires be damned - would be extremely intriguing and, of course, would ultimately culminate in a boss fight at the end of some future expansion to allow us to finally rid ourselves of any outside influences and have our decisions to save the world be just that - our OWN decisions.

Free reign, yet we're on a collision course with those things that stand in opposition to Hydaelyn, namely Ascians and the Empire. On one hand you have tempered servants of Zodiark and on the other you've got a technocentric exaggeration of the might of man. It seems a simple decision within the world of a JRPG because cultists are always bad and any organization that kills grunts for a simple fuckup are bad. That doesn't change the underlying issue that if we're tempered our decisions are still bound to whatever the mothercrystal wants and your character is effectively on rails (a slave) within the context of the story. Can we do anything that Hydaelyn doesn't want us to do? Will SE explore that concept at all?

Unless I'm interpreting the whole thing wrong and 'tempering' by Hydaelyn standards means your typical chosen one, dovahkiin, savior of the world status. That'd simplify things alot.

I don't really expect SE to take us off the JRPG hero rails but exploring the nature of Hydaelyn would be a good avenue to take regarding our main character. Like Altana before her, I suspect her actions aren't omnibenevolent and the fleshed out story could take a turn towards ridding the world of both the influences of Zodiark/Hydaelyn in a scenario like you described. Or it could just do what XI tried and reveal to us that the Altana/Promathia, Hydaelyn/Zodiark relationships are more than a simple good/evil dynamic while still firmly establishing that balance is necessary within the world, justifying (?) your servitude.

[Lucavi]

I'd personally like to see a bit more of the "grey area" aspects to the overriding plot themes, especially as we're at a point where NPCs are essentially dropping F bombs in cockney and murdering people in cold blood, so its not like mature or, at least, deep themes should be out of the question.

If they want to make the game a narrative masterpiece, a good way to start is with some heavy background themes that at least make you ponder. They've done a pretty solid job thus far, as I can't wait to dive more into the Ascians, even if its just to learn more about them. Somehow I don't think its just a "bad guys are bad because bad" trope.

[ronin sparthos]

There is plenty to work with but how far SE wants to take that concept is up to their writers. With the way every primal has its own unique personality ranging from generic 'take over the world' with Garuda to 'mother nature bites back' with Titan, there is plenty of room to have us sympathize with our enemies. Maybe a primal might even decide to join our merry ban. San'd...Ishgard is also wide open for future exploration.

That teaser scene still bothers me though. Those Ascians better not be Cloud, Lightning and Balthier. It all better be some elaborate sleight of hand going on. You hear me Yoshida? Don't you dare. It's the road to shark jumping ruination. Dissidia will not save you.

(The Scions of Light bit is pretty awesome though. Bring forth more Ivalice Alliance tie ins.)

[Obsidian]

Perhaps being Tempered has something to do with the opening cutscene. I wonder if the Ascian you see (Lahabrea?) was actually trying to take you over, but failed because Hydaelyn tempered you first? Is that, perhaps, what gives you the power to resist the Ascian? I can't help but feel that there's some significance to that cutscene beyond "hey check out your new character!"

[Raldo]

That teaser scene still bothers me though. Those Ascians better not be Cloud, Lightning and Balthier. It all better be some elaborate sleight of hand going on. You hear me Yoshida? Don't you dare. It's the road to shark jumping ruination. Dissidia will not save you.

Is there a screenshot of whatever you guys are talking about? I must've missed it...

[ronin sparthos]

Is there a screenshot of whatever you guys are talking about? I must've missed it...

Last 2 mins of this:



It's highly unlikely they are the actual characters but in a game chock full of so many references to previous FFs, it's not impossible either.

[Rocl]

People say that repeatedly but I don't see it.

The opening cutscene replays at the end of the Main Scenario, so I imagine it's a "flash forward" introduction to the Echo. In 1.0 we had starshowers, and now the Echo appears to be gaining more than a "glimpse into the past" cuz wtf is that shit with the dark crystal?

I also have to disagree with the Black/White of the Empire/Eorzea. I mean, yeah they're the bad guys, but they're the bad guys through overwhelming violence and subterfuge-- not their ideals per se. At least, as the player, you can understand Gaius' ambition and his opinions on the Twelve being Primals. You'd figure you rabid atheists would be eating out of his hand when he and Nael bemoan the religions of Eorzea.

Also all this whining and gnashing about not having a choice: less so than JRPG is there any choice in another MMO? afaik there's some choices in like, GW2, but they have little impact on the overarching story. I don't think you're presented much of a choice in WoW either. Unless you wanna talk Horde/Alliance dichotomy, which is a mechanic not present in this game. I mean, if you want morally gray main character you should obviously boot up another game because this isn't the genre for a thousand choices for a thousand possible story outcomes. Yeah, it annoyed me that the dialogue didn't change when selecting different options in Gaius' classic villain speech before the fight, but I wasn't exactly expecting more than a sentence before going into the same spiel as always. (And I admit, I was denied that sentence "How glib!")

And where do we see the Empire kill a subordinate for a simple fuck up? That seems like the exact opposite of what Gaius would do. If you're talking about Nero in Castrum Occidens... that's a spy he's killing.

[Viena]

San'd...Ishgard is also wide open for future exploration.

I chuckled. It's funny because it's true. Ishgard really does resemble Sandy in terms of architecture and the attitude of their elvaans.

Yeah, it annoyed me that the dialogue didn't change when selecting different options in Gaius' classic villain speech before the fight, but I wasn't exactly expecting more than a sentence before going into the same spiel as always. (And I admit, I was denied that sentence "How glib!")

This happens quite a few times on this game, you're given the choice of multiple replies yet it has no impact at all on how the cutscene develops. When they did the same back on XI you were usually granted a couple of different dialog lines which were often amusing or interesting to see. :/

[Lucavi]

And where do we see the Empire kill a subordinate for a simple fuck up? That seems like the exact opposite of what Gaius would do. If you're talking about Nero in Castrum Occidens... that's a spy he's killing.

Tits McGee does it twice when she's kidnapping -our- Tits McGee when the Garlean soldier keeps stabbing the corpse when after -their- Tits McGee tells them to stop.