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  1. #61
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fievel View Post
    They referred to Darnus as a primal too though, didn't they? And he clearly wasn't.
    LET'S NOT BE TOO HASTY, MASTER HOBBIT. [He was heavily under Bahamut's influence, especially at the DEUS END!]

    If we fought against Oschon they'd probably call it a primal battle too. And for the record, I'm betting Llymalaen is the person who gave us the Echo (if that even matters anymore) because throughout the Main Scenario you're followed by a fucking seagull and they make it obvious as hell in Futures Perfect iirc bah I can't be bothered to find a perfect youtube video (there's probably one in the OP too but I'm lazy and late for dinner)

    Mainly my problem with Mog King is Primal is laid out there in your description: Primals are summoned by Beastmen. AFAIK, Moogles have been around way fucking longer than the Five Races & Beastmen. (Or at least, there's reference to them being an Ancient Race, but they ain't Allagan old)

  2. #62
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    Nor am I convinced that the King is technically a "primal." I think the Garleans would be a bit more involved with trying to kill Moogles if that were the case.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    LET'S NOT BE TOO HASTY, MASTER HOBBIT. [He was heavily under Bahamut's influence, especially at the DEUS END!]

    If we fought against Oschon they'd probably call it a primal battle too. And for the record, I'm betting Llymalaen is the person who gave us the Echo (if that even matters anymore) because throughout the Main Scenario you're followed by a fucking seagull and they make it obvious as hell in Futures Perfect iirc bah I can't be bothered to find a perfect youtube video (there's probably one in the OP too but I'm lazy and late for dinner)

    Mainly my problem with Mog King is Primal is laid out there in your description: Primals are summoned by Beastmen. AFAIK, Moogles have been around way fucking longer than the Five Races & Beastmen. (Or at least, there's reference to them being an Ancient Race, but they ain't Allagan old)
    Ehh I guess, can we really call someone a primal just because he was under the influence of a primal though?

    Also, I always viewed King mob as just being their king, not some sort of deity but that was always just my personal view. I view him being similar to how Nidhogg is described for the dragons.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fievel View Post
    Ehh I guess, can we really call someone a primal just because he was under the influence of a primal though?

    Also, I always viewed King mob as just being their king, not some sort of deity but that was always just my personal view. I view him being similar to how Nidhogg is described for the dragons.
    I was hoping the Ent voice made you realize I was joking ):

  5. #65
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    A new primal battle has been added that pits adventurers against Good King Moggle Mog XII.
    This was in the patch notes of the release patch.
    Also no, Darnus was never called a primal in any way. This is the Letter from the Producer where the battle was first mentioned:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/48205
    And in the patch notes they only list the quest without any additional details.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    I was hoping the Ent voice made you realize I was joking ):
    THERE ARE NO JOKES THIS IS SERIOUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkar View Post
    This was in the patch notes of the release patch.
    Also no, Darnus was never called a primal in any way. This is the Letter from the Producer where the battle was first mentioned:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/48205
    And in the patch notes they only list the quest without any additional details.
    Interesting, for some reason I could've sworn he was listed as a primal somewhere.

  7. #67
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    To be honest I wouldn't give much weight to the "primal battle" comment from the patch notes. Unless the comment comes from the localization team then god knows how valid it is, for all we know, the guy writing the patch notes was just told to categorize it in the same way as the Ifrit battle was.

    Until the servers are back up and Rocl can go lore it up ingame, this http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num04.html is probably the best thing we have unless someone saved the quest text from the Feast of fools quest.

    I don't know if I'd call the Moogle a primal, but I do think he's on the same category of "magical being summoned by aether" that the primals (and possibly the Twelve) are. Either way, let's not forget they rushed to add this boss because of not being able to use Leviathan/Titan, so the lore it's built on might be questionable in itself, lol.

  8. #68

    I assume no one's designed an effective method of extracting .dat information yet? Otherwise you could just look up all the NPC dialogue and just copypasta it.

    I know there's a model viewer but it was neither very organized or complete last I saw it, no idea anyone continued the project.

  9. #69
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    By now, all Gridanians—and most adventurers—will doubtless be familiar with Louisoix, head of the Circle of Knowing, who has journeyed to our nation for no other purpose than to quell the mounting primal threat. The native of Sharlayan has identified the moogle monarch as a primal, whose voracious appetite for aetheric energy could end life as we know it upon Eorzea. Coming from such an authoritative figure as Louisoix, these tidings are grim indeed.
    It seems pretty clear to me and this is clearly from the localization team.
    Either way this article now has some interesting details. This "War among the gods"... could it be a war between the Twelve and the other Primals and not among the Twelve themselves?
    After all Bahamut was apparently sealed away by the Allagan Empire and they created Dalamud but we also see the Twelve recreating Dalamud in the final CS... maybe the two are the same thing and the Allagan Empire was simply this realm of the gods before the war?

  10. #70

    Given how little they're spoken of or represented as conscious beings it's hard to get a good picture of "the 12" but I never got the impression that they were in any noteworthy discord (assuming they are indeed gods, but it's almost never that simple).

    I also thought it was assumed that the Allaghans were quite familiar with the 12, most likely to the point of origin even (again, the possibility they were/created the 12 and people simply view them as gods after so many generations of myth and legend).

    Any implied "conflict" among the 12 evident to us is just pissing contests among people who favor certain ones over others (see: Ishgard being general pricks because everyone isn't in their little Halone cult).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Given how little they're spoken of or represented as conscious beings it's hard to get a good picture of "the 12" but I never got the impression that they were in any noteworthy discord (assuming they are indeed gods, but it's almost never that simple).

    I also thought it was assumed that the Allaghans were quite familiar with the 12, most likely to the point of origin even (again, the possibility they were/created the 12 and people simply view them as gods after so many generations of myth and legend).

    Any implied "conflict" among the 12 evident to us is just pissing contests among people who favor certain ones over others (see: Ishgard being general pricks because everyone isn't in their little Halone cult).
    Yup, that's my point. The fictional writer of the article assumes that the legend refers to a war between the Twelve but the Primals are also considered gods.
    Maybe the war did happen but it was the Twelve vs the other Primals. Could also explain why they were all sealed away in one way or another.
    Bahamut was sealed inside of Dalamud (created by the Allagan Empire), the 6 "elemental" primals were apparently sealed inside of Midgarsorm who was the "Guardian of the lake" and under this lake there's the Crystal Tower, said to be a tomb of an ancient Allagan king.
    Maybe the war did happen and the Twelve won: Bahamut was sealed away in the sky, Odin was sealed inside the Crystal Tower and buried underground and the others somewhat used to create Midgarsorm and guard the Tower.
    The Moogles seemed like a third party that didn't want to get involved.

  12. #72

    I'm not sure what war you're referring to.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fievel View Post
    They referred to Darnus as a primal too though, didn't they? And he clearly wasn't.
    Well, to be fair, that's half correct.

    Edit: Holy mother of god super delayed.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    So an interesting theory I heard from (well, the OF) was that in the DRG quest it wasn't Nidhogg who spoke to Estinien in the final DRG CS but Bahamut? I mean it's ??? italic voice, unfortunately the OP videos tend to green-screen and cut out for me during the last 30s and idk why so hopefully there's something to disprove this tomfoolery
    The CS doesn't outright disprove it. I had never seen the video before but I was kinda expecting to see a dragon and not just a big portal open and rain down on Estinien. It did remind me of Nael getting power from Dalamud just with different colors. Just one more thing we'll probably never know for sure until ARR, Estinien being a boss in a dungeon would be kinda neat.

  15. #75
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    cross-post so conversation continues in appropriate thread:


    Quote Originally Posted by Aerin View Post
    Bozja was 10 years ago, but BoSF was 15 years ago. It was 10 years ago that the Primals started to show up as well.
    In the Year 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era, five years after the invasion of Ala Mhigo
    Invasion of Ala Mhigo took place 15 years before 1.0, so I figured that was 10 years

    So, BoSF is 1562

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/about/...ties/mor-dhona

    In the Year 1557 of the Sixth Astral Era, a mere thirty-six years from the Empire's founding, the Garleans brought their campaign of conquest to Eorzea, swiftly bringing the city-state of Ala Mhigo to its knees.
    Ala Mhigan Invasion is 1557, BoSF is apparently 1562

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/about/...garlean-empire

    I think we all know Bozja was 10 years ago, and I'm not gonna dig around for proof on the website cuz I don't think they even mention it there. However, if you go to the bottom of the Empire page you see the Empire began to re-advance in 1571, so I assume 2009 was 1572 lol. Also Primals predate BoSF as well:

    In subjugating Ala Mhigo, van Baelsar employed subterfuge to stoke the fires of civil unrest, a masterstroke which led to the nation's capture without the need for a protracted siege. However, the unanticipated appearance of a primal shortly thereafter prompted the Empire to halt the legion's advance
    If Ala Mhigo happened in 1557 and BoSF in 1562; I think maybe you've just got your dates mixed up. When we get the game back up (lol I'm only gonna use it for the CS book) I have to see exactly when the Beast Tribes were taught to summon them, but they appeared before Midgardsormr fucked shit up.

    tl;dr
    Ala Mhigo is fifteen years ago
    Bozja is ten years ago
    Silvertear is five years after Ala Mhigo, so that's ten years ago

  16. #76
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    Screenshot of Louisoix saying the Primals were first summoned by the beastmen 10 years ago. Of course there is a difference between summoning a primal and those that are running loose but I was referring to the former.

    Spoiler: show




    And an image of dialogue stating the Bozja was ten years ago just cause I found it in the same place


    Spoiler: show




  17. #77
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    moggle mog seems for all intents and purposes to be a Primal. and as far as we know, the sharlayans thinks so and so far they know the most out of everyone.
    furthermore the moogles are considered a beast tribe of sorts.

    it seems that so long as they're not humanoid they're a beast tribe and would therefore have a primal god (or something). otherwise they'd worship the twelve.
    one would think the Padjal fall into the same category as the 5 races. The devs are also leaving it open as to whether there'll be new races included in XIV in the future so they'd probably fall under this category.

    i don't think we know exactly what ascians and paragons are at this point to say if they have primals or not.

    if the primals and the twelve are both considered gods then perhaps the war many millenia ago happened between these 2 factions of gods. However, considering that Dalamud was said to be an "allagan" construct, it would mean that the Allagan's themselves were either gods (not likely since they mention that Van Darnus has blood lineage) or lived in the time of the gods and happened to worship some of them (the twelve).

    since bahamut's prison seemed pretty physical, its possible that all the gods back then were physically manifested, which was probably very taxing on the aether of the land. perhaps at the cost of banishing Bahamut and the other primals, all gods lost their physical presense in this world... until the battle at silvertear falls which disrupted the flow of aether and caused the primals (that lost physical form) to manifest again. Bahamut wasn't one of those if he had simply been sealed up far away.

    anyway, there are evidently 7 primals (or 8?) in the poster during the live letter session.



    top: Bahamut
    first row: Ifrit, Shiva
    second: Garuda, Titan
    third: Leviathan, Ramuh
    and i'm not sure what that thing is on the bottom.. but I'm pretty sure its Odin.
    (you can kinda make out sleipnir's eyes as red dots and the red thing above is his mane. Odin's body shape is broken by the cape, but his right hand is raised and the 2 long things next to it are the horns of his helm.

    which happen to be the classic FF summon pantheon (other than Garuda).

    seeing as moggle mog isn't in there, it leads me to believe that there may be different categories of primals involved. these 8 may be the main ones in the story.. and moggle mog just happens to be represented earlier on

  18. #78
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    edit: Nevermind, that's totally a mostly-silhouetted Odin holding his sword up. The red is Sleipnir's mane.

  19. #79

    Why does garuda just looks like a bird in that

    oh and Yoshi did say that one of the three storylines in ARR will deal with Beastmen summoning Primals which causes depletion of Aether

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
    Why does garuda just looks like a bird in that
    HOLY FUCK THANK YOU

    I was telling a few people I thought she looked like a bird and they were all saying I was fucking stupid, god damn.

    Her wing tip that shows on the side of her face looks like a beak, lol.

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