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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post

    if the primals and the twelve are both considered gods then perhaps the war many millenia ago happened between these 2 factions of gods. However, considering that Dalamud was said to be an "allagan" construct, it would mean that the Allagan's themselves were either gods (not likely since they mention that Van Darnus has blood lineage) or lived in the time of the gods and happened to worship some of them (the twelve).
    The quote below is dialogue from the npc Tyago Moui during the Of Archons and Muses sidequest. Out of curiosity, was it ever stated the time period when Allag was still around?

    According to the loremasters' books, there was an age of shadow and calamity some fifteen hundred-odd years ago, when a great flood drowned the world - the sixth Umbral Era, they called it. Believers say it was the twelve Archons what came to fight the darkness then.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fievel View Post
    HOLY FUCK THANK YOU

    I was telling a few people I thought she looked like a bird and they were all saying I was fucking stupid, god damn.

    Her wing tip that shows on the side of her face looks like a beak, lol.
    The first time I saw the picture, my first thought was "why is there a chocobo primal in that picture" then after I finally saw her face I felt stupid. I can't see the beak anymore, thank god.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    since bahamut's prison seemed pretty physical, its possible that all the gods back then were physically manifested, which was probably very taxing on the aether of the land. perhaps at the cost of banishing Bahamut and the other primals, all gods lost their physical presense in this world... until the battle at silvertear falls which disrupted the flow of aether and caused the primals (that lost physical form) to manifest again. Bahamut wasn't one of those if he had simply been sealed up far away.
    I was actually thinking about how primals don't naturally have physical manifestations... yet Bahamut clearly kept his body inside Dalamud. Won't know until ARR, but maybe Elder Primals are those primals that can always maintain a physical form for whatever reason (they can still drain aether to strengthen themselves as we see from Bahamut). Funnily enough if this was the case, there would be a pretty strong parallel with terrestrial avatars from XI, since they were tied to Vana'diel and didn't exist in a different plane.

    If Bahamut can just vanish after running out of aether like the normal primals then I don't know how he was able to be imprisoned far away from the planet for so long, unless Dalamud was supplying him enough aether to keep him corporeal. Now the questions are whether Dalamud could've run out of aether, and whether Bahamut could've just been resummoned back in Eorzea if that happened. This would be interesting too, since it would make Dalamud pretty much a time bomb, and the calamity would've happened eventually regardless of the Empire's actions (maybe that's how the prophecy started... the allags knew the banishment wouldn't be permanent...).

    The allagans should definitely be connected to the twelve in some form since the spell from the video started forming a second Dalamud, although the spears were different.

  3. #83
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    haha i thought the same thing about the beak..
    for a moment i was like.. oh he they're the same as all the FF3 summons.
    maybe the beak illusion is some kind of homage to FF3s summon pantheon.. because Chocobo was one of the original 8 summons there.. together with the rest except for Garuda (who only became a summon in XI).

    don't know much about mission story and lore.. tho i will say DiamondEdge over at FFWiki (i contribute there a fair bit, so a bit of a plug. also if people are going to collate info, its a great place to go) has put in considerable effort compiling the Journal entries for 1.0 so far.. among other things..
    FFXIV Missions

    Journal entries are official in-game summaries of the story so far. Good to read to catch up on the story.
    I'd say don't bother so much with pre-GC storyline cos its probably going to be scrapped apart from back story

  4. #84
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    I cant see no face just one big looking chicken! Dammit... Been staring at it for 20 mins now wtf gives!

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    maybe this helps.

    remember for garuda she has wings for hair



  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Can you show me where Sil'dih is supposed to be Allagan? As far as I knew they were contemporaneous with Ul'dah, had a war with Ul'dah and lost. (I think again, Monk quest? but I haven't done); in the Miner CS all I recall is that it's an old civilization that rivaled Ul'dah before getting fucked up. Now, it could be Allagan, but that'd mean Ul'dah itself was Allagan too?
    I remember some of the mid level mnk quests talking about the war between Ul'dah and Sil'dih. I believe Sil'dih attacked first and Ul'dah pushed them back and when the fight got back to Sil'dih their king 'casted a spell' to reanimate their dead to fight back and I think it kinda back-fired. Ul'dah eventually cleaned house.

  7. #87
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    Yes, that's the story of the two cities, but the game doesn't say anything about Sil'dih being Allagan.

  8. #88
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    Noted and fixed.

    Didn't the dialog from the end of the Weaver quest line specifically mention that Sil'dih was significantly more advanced than current-day Ul'dah?

    Also, I'm seeing speculation that the concept art for the newly envisioned Ul'dah is actually mostly nearby Sil'dihn ruins unearthed by Bahamut's attacks. Looks a lot more likely than having Ul'dah near-crumbling, hanging over massive craters/crevasses. It's definitely a good idea for a zone; an ancient city taken out by backfired necromancy and buried in the desert, now conveniently unearthed.

    Oh, and I totally forgot that the antlion caverns in Copperbell Mines actually broke into Sil'dih's aqueducts (where a Lambs of Dalamud event took place). Geographically, this would assume that there's most likely Sil'dihn structures underneath Ul'dah itself, or at least some networks of sewers/aqueducts.

  9. #89
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    They had the advantage from what I remember, yes. They lost because they tried to use zombies during the war and it got out of control.

    I never got the impression that there was anything weird about them (as in, allag-based) though, they were just a nation that existed alongside Ul'dah at some point. Let's not forget, the cities from Eorzea are pathetically low-tech, so it wouldn't really take much to be considered "advanced" in comparison. Certainly wouldn't need to hold the power to imprison gods in space to be considered more advanced than Ul'dah. I could remember wrong though, and maybe there was a big hint somewhere. I'll edit if I can find anything.

    Btw I can't find anything about Sil'dih in A Fruitful Murder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cMopB_xVQ). Did you mean the miner quest or a different weaver quest?

    Going to link all the Sil'dih stuff we have so far, I'll edit into the OP eventually:
    -Monk NPC dialog:
    Spoiler: show

    Quote Originally Posted by http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/49173-Sil-dih?p=745565&viewfull=1#post745565
    "I need hardly mention that Sil'dihn civilization is now centuries dead.

    Sil'dih was plunged into chaos in the wake of King Lalawefu's demise─or the King of Springs, as he was known. Despite the success of his economic reforms, the tax increases he imposed did not sit well with his subjects. This, coupled with a prolonged sequence of untimely droughts, fomented unrest among the people and in time sparked violent unrest throughout the kingdom. Sil'dih was not alone in its want for water. Ul'dah, too, felt the effects of the droughts. The sultan at the time, Sasagan Ul Sisigan─ Ah! But perhaps you recognize the Ul name? The current sultana, Nanamo Ul Namo, represents the second Ul dynasty. She is Sasagan's distant descendant. Now...where was I? Ah, yes! Right, so, Sasagan ordered an attack on Sil'dih to claim the water resources discovered as a result of Lalawefu's flood control acts.

    But the royalty and nobility of Sil'dih would not remain idle. They mobilized their nation in the face of this crisis, and the people fought with great tenacity against the Ul'dahn threat. The full strength of both nations met in battle, and the end result was an arduous protracted conflict. Though arguably more desirable than surrender, the ruling Sil'dihn elite took little pleasure in having succeeded in uniting the theretofore querulous citizenry to fight. For despite all they accomplished, every day spent waging war dragged the nation's financial affairs─which you will recall had only just been brought under control─back into the mire.

    To bring an end to the long military deadlock, Sil'dih devised and set about implementing a perverse yet ambitious strategy. It sought to zombify the deceased among its army, that they might fight again. At first, it appeared to have worked. Yet at the height of hostilities, the Sil'dihns lost control over their necrotic creations. The undead turned on their masters, and before long the zombification had spread to a majority of the population. Ever knowing an opportunity when they saw one, the Ul'dahns grasped this turn of events to justify their war─now proclaiming it a crusade to send these zombies to Thal. After seeing to the extermination of all zombies outside the city, they then sealed the gates of Sil'dih, entrapping both the living and dead within.

    And that, in brief, is a history of the fall of Sil'dih. I only pray that your feeble mind is able to retain it."


    -Miner's quest: A piece of history
    Spoiler: show

    I see. Sil'dih must have been a truly vast city at its peak, just as the histories say.
    ...
    Sil'dih was an ancient city, located very near to Ul'dah. At one time, it prospered as much as Ul'dah does now, but they lost a great war and the civilization crumbled.
    To this day, none know precisely what kind of city it was.
    But to gaze upon the sheer scale of the ruins, one can only imagine that it must have been as great and lively a city as our own.

    Video - Sil'dih mentioned @5:26 (credit to MithraTales):
    Spoiler: show



  10. #90
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    Ahhhh now all i see is a face i cant see no chicken no mores !!!!

    Haha thanks never would have seen it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    maybe this helps.

    remember for garuda she has wings for hair



  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerin View Post
    Screenshot of Louisoix saying the Primals were first summoned by the beastmen 10 years ago. Of course there is a difference between summoning a primal and those that are running loose but I was referring to the former.
    I don't think the statements are contradictory. Ala Mhigan Invasion was stopped 15 years ago by a Primal, the Paragons taught the Beastmen Tribes how to summon the Primals 10 years ago. We obviously know now that Primals have been around forever (since the time of Allag, and I'm betting earlier, lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerin View Post
    The quote below is dialogue from the npc Tyago Moui during the Of Archons and Muses sidequest. Out of curiosity, was it ever stated the time period when Allag was still around?
    iirc it was during the Third Astral Era? maybe Fourth... I'll do some digging here

    Quote Originally Posted by solracht View Post
    The allagans should definitely be connected to the twelve in some form since the spell from the video started forming a second Dalamud, although the spears were different.
    Ehh, I'm skeptical of this and the whole THE TWELVE WERE REALLY ALLAGAN, they could be as connected to the Twelve as we are.

    Interesting thoughts of the day:
    *something about Answers and Sylphs calling us Woken Ones, I have to form this more cuz I forgot after realizing

    ROWENA'S BOSS WAS DEFINITELY NAEL VAN DARNUS LOL. (okay maybe not definitely) She collected Allagan Runestones and Primal oblations, which she was confused by, but didn't care cuz the coin was good (as she showed us by stripping) I mean, that's all I got, but the thought crossed my mind today and I can't stop laughing at the thought. Everything we did helped Nael van Darnus summon Bahamut. We are the bad guys in 1.0 --- wtg guys

    The other party (besides from random rich people, but the fact she has primal weapons makes me think it wasn't random richies) that could be responsible would be the Circle of Knowing, right? Who else cares about Allagans & Primal shit and them being tied together? Well, to that I ask: why wouldn't they deal with us directly? Louisoix seems chill with telling us to go kill Ifrit, I'm sure if he wanted them he'd ask for Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms etc. Nael van Darnus is Rowena's employer. She probably doesn't know it (I think she mentions not really knowing/seeing him?); the Relic Quest bit is probably not as important. It's more about her relationship with Gerrolt. The Primal Seals, if you ever bothered to read them, offer protection from the Primals themselves, lol.
    A hand-carved medal said to grant its wearer the protection of the Lord of Crags.
    Beastmen book is probably just as obvious as identifying Primal Seals or Weapons or some shit---not so much for her boss NAEL VAN DARNUS

  12. #92
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    Oops. Sorry Louisoix. ; _ ;


  13. #93

    Hey he's the genius that kept sending us to kill them.

  14. #94
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    Since I noticed the OP collecting a bunch of random info:

    There's a city state called Radz-at-Han which is known for outfitting its military with Giantsgall weapons. It lies to the east across the Jade Sea, on what I can only assume to be the continent of Thavnair. This is our Near East we'll never see, lol.


    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num08.html

    Gridania waged war with Ala Mhigo one hundred years ago (the Autumn War), and called for help from the rest of Eorzea. Limsa Lominsa, Ul'dah and Ishgard joined together with Gridania to form the Eorzean Alliance and push Ala Mhigo back to the East.

    Also if there was any doubt, Louisoix is definitely an Archon, from Sharlayan, and a scholar (so he's Thaliak obvs)

    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num08.html

    Nidhogg has been asleep for two hundred years, and recently awoken--I assume by Estinien, but we'll see.

    lol foreshadowing "The future is but a reflection of the past" - Saint Coinach who studied Allagan Empire

    Dalamud definitely reddened 10 years ago (Hell, the Bozja incident might've been the Imperials at Bozja trying to use Dalamud to win the Battle of Silvertear Falls--did I say that already? I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot.)

    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num05.html

    Ixali settled in the Twelveswood 550 years ago---and worshiped Gardua way back when then too, so the Primals (obvi duh) aren't new things.
    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num06.html

    Batraal awoke the same time the Imperials began to attack Dzemael, though based on the article it may just be an unfortunate coincidence.
    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num01.html

    This one is a retraction of one my previous claims Ifrit was first summoned at/near Mythril Pit T-3 and not Pit T-8, woops. The numbers look similar okay!
    This also took place eight years ago and is marked as the first appearance as Ifrit on Eorzean soil. Chronologically this is 2 years after Silvertear, which is kinda important '~'

    Leviathan, primal of Sahagins, has been active during the course of 1.0; though this says Garuda has been active the whole time too--so this is a bit more meh

    A small party of pirates defeated Leviathan and Titan "a handful of years ago," this is just more or less to prove (if there was any doubt) Leviathan is Sahagin and Titan is Kobold. Of note, Titan is not mentioned as active in this article, so the Kobold don't seem as concerned with the crystal trade as the other beastmen?
    http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num05.html

    The terminology "beast tribe" is of Garlean origin. So, back in the day we were all one big happy Eorzea.

    Beastmen were exiled from Ul'dah ten years ago to avoid becoming a target for the Garleans, cuz Garleans hate everyone who worships eikons.

    edit: woops I x'd out of that tab too fast, but it's the Materia Article it can't be hard to find

    I'm trying to scrape as much 'official' interesting shit I can from the lodestone, et. al.

  15. #95
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    I don't know how to format posts, but I've been collecting bits of dialogue I liked from 1.0 for a while and this is interesting:

    Gerrolt: Ages ago, there lived a female mage of no small repute who was known by all sorts of unsavory epithets. “Death's Handmaiden” was one, “The Black Witch” was another...an' the proper half-wits called her “She-Devil.” Her name was, er...Shantotto. Or was it Shatoto? Ah, right─Shatotto. Aye, that's the one.

    Durin' one of her many bouts of ennui, Shatotto thought it'd be a jolly jape to cast Meteor, the ancient spell used to bring down a star. An' cast it she did...

    Anyways, anyone who's done the BLM quest knows there was Shatotto who pioneered the dark arts, but the idea that she cast Meteor by herself to crash a star down, well, I think she's post Allagan Empire (I'm not quite there yet, I'll find it maybe!), so it could've been Dalamud but I doubt the shit out of that. So Meteor applies to stuff other than Dalamud, obvi. If I just looked through my own shit this thread would never exist obvi

    Also here's the Wandering Minstrel dialogue for you to peruse at your pleasure:
    Spoiler: show
    Goobue dialogue:
    Ne'er till land consumes sun can sea bear moons,
    Heavens spew crimson flame,
    hells seep black dooms.

    I have walked the four corners of Hydaelyn, from the Gardens of Xarakish, to the floating lakes of Voor Sian Siran, but never in my travels have I encountered such a fell prophecy. One need not be an oracle to previse the great ill which casts a shadow across this forsaken realm.
    Yet...perhaps there is still hope for Eorzea.
    When I arrived in this land, I was beset with peril day and night─forced to endure countless trials which tested my mind, my body, and my faith. And I am not ashamed to admit that I would have faltered, had it not been for the help of a handful of nameless adventurers much like yourself. Honest men and women who proffered the hand of friendship to a weary soul and led him safe from the darkness.
    I pondered long over how I could repay the kindness shown me...only to find the answer in the most unlikely of places─the final verse of the selfsame song that had so haunted me since my first days in Eorzea:Souls from aether far, strangers from strange lands,Yester with thine eyes, morrow by thine hands.
    Had the gods led me to Eorzea for a reason? Might I serve a higher purpose, through which lives might be saved and order restored to the realm? I hoped that it might be so. For what better use may a man's life be put to than to serve as an agent of divine intervention? ...But in what manner was I to play my part?
    Seeking an answer, I prayed for twelve days and twelve nights until at last I collapsed of exhaustion. However, it was at this moment that I was blessed with a vision─a single-horned beast leading a flock of chocobos from a burning forest. When I awoke from my reverie, I knew what I must do.
    Once, long ago, I was summoned to a wealthy satrapy far to the east to play in the royal court. When my performance was complete, the High Satrap was so moved that he offered me anything I desired in exchange for one more song. I humbly accepted, and for my reward requested knowledge of a secret that had been kept by the satrapy's military for generations─their method of taming goobbues.
    Needless to say, the High Satrap was initially reluctant to grant me that which I had requested, but being an honest man, ever conscious of his obligation to set an example before his subjects, he soon relented and acquiesced to my terms. Since that time, I have kept his nation's secret, but now believe that as the sixth sun wanes and seventh moon waxes, it is mete that I should pass it on in hopes that the knowledge may be made to serve us all.
    With this horn, may you lead us from despair, and help usher in a new age. I put my trust in you, adventurer. Do not let me down
    Many a night, when I stare up into the boundless heavens, I will oft catch a glimpse of a world not quite our own... Different, yet eerily similar. Is this the Void, or is it something else?
    I suppose time will tell...

    Jail dialogue:
    I never thought to meet a friend in a place such as this. It appears we share a connection, you and I.
    The words make sense to me now. But a single glance at your face was enough to reveal their meaning.
    What words, you ask? The words of Mezaya Thousand Eyes, of course.Ne'er till land consumes sun can sea bear moons,Heavens spew crimson flame, hells seep black dooms.tray seeds quicken in ash's grey embrace,Valiant blades forged under the Twelve's good grace The first line is simple─it warns of the end of the Astral and the beginning of the Umbral Era.
    The “crimson flames” falling from heaven speak of the red moon, Dalamud, as I am sure you have deduced.
    Then come the “black dooms,” which represent the continuing woes of Eorzea.
    “Stray seeds” in “ash”? This can only signify the birth of new hope in a desolate world. And who, pray tell, will bring us this hope?
    Why, prodigiously talented, nay blessed souls who bravely venture forth with weapon in hand─or “valiant blades forged under the Twelve's good grace,” if you prefer.
    A rather elegant manner of describing adventurers, would you not agree?
    But if such is true, then you, my friend, do not belong in a dank, dark prison. Fly from this place, and prepare yourself for the calamities which are to come.
    I shall do all that is within my power to aid you. And once the land is reborn, perhaps you and I shall meet again.
    Go now. The shoots of a brave tomorrow shall spring from the seeds you sow this day.The vista stretches out before me. Beyond the void, it glimmers─a world not unlike our own...


    he's verbose as a motherfucker

  16. #96
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    So, basically:

    Garleans invade, primarily targeting beast tribes because of their ability to summon Primals.
    Eorzeans immediately sever ties with best tribes to avoid being targeted, resulting in resentment and hostilities between us.
    We finally realize that we are all equally at danger here and want to make up with the beast tribes as well as talk them out of summoning Primals.
    [Amalj'aa/Ixali] respond with "Fuck off, we'll continue to take care of ourselves as we have been and [Ifrit/Garuda] will hose those Garleans good."
    Seemingly, the Sylphs and Goblins are the only ones who wholly realize our predicament and the only ones smart enough to call on their Primal as an easy way out.
    We end up fighting off the Primals ourselves to restore the aetheric balance of Eorzea but inadvertently keep feeding it to Bahamut, guaranteeing his release.

    Did we just miss out on some big secret as to how we were supposed to deal with the Primals without their aether getting poured into Bahamut's mouth? Was this just one big oversight by the Circle of Knowing? The whole thing was just us just being written between... sigh... a rock and a hard place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    So Meteor applies to stuff other than Dalamud
    first page mfucker

    Thanks for going through the lodestone instead of doing the work you said you had to do, I'll move stuff to the OP eventually, trying to decide how I want to format things so it's not just a random list of things.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by solracht View Post
    first page mfucker
    couldn't see, my tattoo was in the way

  19. #99
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    This just begs the question as to how other attempts of casting Meteor were such disasters without it being Dalamud. Was the entire reason Bahamut broke out of Dalamud at all this time because he did some social engineering, driving Nael mad, combined with us feeding him the aether he needed to break free by simultaneously killing Primals?

    Perhaps it was always Dalamud, but it didn't break open any of the other times because no one really knew what they were doing before? Perhaps what Bahamut has been waiting for all this time was specifically someone with Allegan blood to attempt Meteor.

  20. #100
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    Meteor isn't linked to Dalamud, it just brings down a star from the sky (see the first page). That said, we know for sure Meteor has been cast at "big" heavenly bodies at least three times:

    -Once by Shatotto, aimed at god knows what
    -Once by the Garleans, aimed at Dalamud. Landed on Bozja.
    -Once by Darnus, aimed at Dalamud

    The allagan stones Darnus gathered are what allowed him to land Dalamud where he wanted. In "Two Vans are Better than One" he says his family holds the secrets to Dalamud, so we can assume he wasn't present for the first attempt (though he clearly knows what happened, as Gaius says "do you not remember what happened 10 years ago").

    All we know about Bozja comes from Two Vans are Better than one, and random musings from Cid in other missions. I'll repost the quotes from the former:

    Not long after, it was proposed that the device be used to cast Dalamud down upon the lands of the beast tribes. But to do this, a breed of sorcery powerful enough to tear the very stars from the sky was needed - Meteor.
    Killing the tribes is what motivates the first cast of Meteor, and it clearly says it was aimed at Dalamud.

    Perfect? Do you not remember? That day ten years ago was an utter failure - a blemish on the legacy of Garlemald. We learned then we could not control where Dalamud would fall. That is why Meteor was abandoned.
    Definitely seems to say it hit Dalamud here, which makes me wonder how close it got - and how it went back to the sky after getting close enough to Bozja to blow it up.

    Dalamud's descent stopped to a crawl after Darnus died, didn't it? If that's the case then when it became obvious that Dalamud was going towards Bozja, maybe the caster "cancelled" the spell somehow? Still doesn't clear up how it went back to the skies. However...

    I very, very vaguely remember Lousioux hoping that Dalamud would go back into space after we stopped Darnus - but by the time we do, it's gotten too close and clearly isn't going anywhere. I don't even know how to begin looking for this cutscene (if it even exists). Does anyone else remember this or am I making things up? If Lousioux does say this then that'd explain a lot about Bozja, but like I said I could be making it up/remembering wrong.

    EDIT:
    On Bozja:
    On the night in question, an archer on duty at a guard station in the East Shroud noted that the lesser moon was giving off a reddish glow and promptly reported the development to Stillglade Fane. This anomaly, however, proved to be fleeting; by the time dawn broke, Dalamud had reverted to its normal hue, with scarce more than a handful of souls having borne witness to the baffling occurrence.
    Dalamud didn't move at all, so whatever wrecked Bozja was either:
    a) A different star, not Dalamud (Meteor missed after all... but this is contradicted by Two Vans Are Better Than One unless Gaius didn't mean what he said literally. I don't really want to get there, though)
    b) Something that fell from Dalamud (feels unlikely since it didn't get close to the planet at all, plus meteorites from Dalamud only start appearing when it gets close)
    c) Something within the Citadel (maybe the equivalent of a lunar transmitter... but the Garleans don't build one in Mor Dhona until Dalamud is close, so this option doesn't make much sense either. If we go with this option then we can't trust Gaius's words literally either)

    welp

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