FFXIV story/lore thread

**solracht** · 2012-12-14 13:30

I remember being so mad at the Nielle quests when the game came out because they made absolutely no sense and it felt like it was just a plothole, lol. Good times. Scary how much more sense everything makes now. I think the saddest part is since the game was so messed up when it came out, I just assumed the NPCs were glitching when they disappeared mid cutscenes because lol1.0. I remember wondering wtf just happened during the caravan cutscene from last page, and then I just shrugged it off as the CS being unfinished.

Still no excuse for the terrible armorer quests though!

Also I don't think Greinfarr appears in the present day anywhere (only echo).

EDIT: Rewatching the Gridania CSs: did we seriously just fucking go to an Echo within an Echo in "Beckon of the Elementals" at 4:50?
http://images1.pcgamesn.com/seinfeld.gif

Btw there's a voiced cutscene missing in the middle of the video Rocl posted:

Would obviously be a retcon since it wasn't planned back then, but it'd be cool if all the dark skies + meteorites from the 1.0 missions happened because of the first try at summoning Dalamud (since we now know these scenes happen 10ish years before the game). Either way, I wonder what this was about.

**Rocl** · 2012-12-14 15:28

We Echo within an Echo a lot (especially in the opening quests) and yeah I'd been thinking that's either Midgardsormr blowing up the Agrius or Bozja incident for some time. However, it seems unlikely as the one Wood Wailer or w/e saw Dalamud turn red for a night, but maybe it was the night before/after the starshower.

Also-- it makes sense now that Warbutton (potentially Minfilia's father) went to Ul'dah to warn of the Primals since it seems Ala Mhigo was just taken during much of the 1.0 quests. So, it's the first time they really see a primal in Eorzea (or at least in modern times, lol) and he's like AWWWH SHIT SOMETHING WORSE THAN THE GARLEANS. This would also make sense to as Minfilia's attitude towards primals (well, I should watch more CS but she seems to know a lot more/be a lot more wary then some NPCs)

I didn't realize the Paragons spoke to the primals as well as the beast tribes either

well, I probably did but rewatching cutscenes just reminds me of shit incl shit i posted in this thread earlier haha

**Rocl** · 2012-12-16 03:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Sww2ytJDc

SHIT, I HAD IT ALL WRONG

**Niiro** · 2012-12-16 12:15

I completely forgot about the LL mission where you save Rapunzel, it was like one of the first ones.

Spoiler: show

**Rocl** · 2012-12-17 01:59

So, I've been doing a bunch of random cutscene watching cuz I'm bored and have no life. Technically I should be studying bbbuttttttttttttt
Some of this may be really old; I don't recall reading it here (and I reread this thread earlier today cuz you know procrastination)

Louisoix & Urianger are the only people not celebrating during the final 1.0 CS (that one with the theme and the tears) So--perhaps they knew the failure as early as then?

We never see Louisoix's neck tattoo until End of an Era, and it's white (all the other Circle of Knowing members tattoo are black) Additionally Louisoix is the only one we know of that has a forehead tattoo (is someone who's more versed in the stupid Eorzean alphabet able to tell me if they're letters?)

We never see all of Yda's face =( I want her to have some sort of physical deformity, maybe the bitch is blind.

I think Coerthas was one of the most damaged areas by the Seventh Umbral Era (I mean, aside from the Black Shroud getting fucked up into not-retarded maze); at the very least Coerthas seemed to lose a lot of Aether. Even before Atomos appeared (I think? I don't know if it was before the Atomos changes or not tbh) Coerthas was the first area to show orange Aetheryte (that's what I'm gonna call crystalized aether here). It was shown on the bottom of Rivenroad ofc--is it because Dalamud/Atomos/something is draining the Aether('s power)? Mayhaps the Allagan technology utilized the Aether's power? (As Rivenroad was levitated by the Allagan tech)

Ala Mhigo is encased by a great Wall (capitalized in game) with the only exit leading to Garlemald. Which begs the question how all these Ala Mhigans got out? Stowaways on Imperial Airships? Is every Ala Mhigan pre-conquest? Thinking specifically about the resistance members (those in the Path quests etc). [Actually, the Futures Perfect quest briefly addresses this by saying a whole bunch of people died to get the Resistance out of Ala Mhigo] Ah, this cutscene says Ala Mhigo was lost 30 summers past--I think this is corrected in later patches tho.

Who's memory do we Echo into when we see the Centurion brainwash the Ala Mhigan kids?

I also want to point out it's an Imperial Dreadnought behind Agrius, not Agrius itself which fires the shot in Futures Perfect. I've seen people saying it was part of the Keeper and it's not true >|

What manner of magicks did the Sahagin use in Never the Twain Shall Meet? (The big naval battle CS) Why did an aerial assault go through it? '~' Also, again, they show a close-up of the sun, then Tranvanchet walks out w/o a shadow and his little Ascian theme. In addition: DID Y'SHTOLA JUST KICK ME OUT OF THE ECHO? THAT BITCH.

Greinfarr does appear in the Gladiator quests too you jerks.

Ahhh I had some sort of realization I think I had earlier wherein the Allagans imprisoned Bahamut not so much b/c they couldn't deal with so much as they don't wanna fite him forever. By keeping him in the physical realm, he could not be summoned elsewhere (as far as we know); so it's kind of ingenious really. But I think I've stated this before, lol.

Is it Nophica or Thaliak which lights up first in End of an Era? Technically doesn't really matter but... On the topic of Gods, Minfilia mentions finding "why or which" [of] the Twelve gave us the Echo. In Futures Perfect, the Circle of Knowing says they will be looking for the One who gave them this power right before seagulling.

Despite the prevalence of Aether and Aetheryte in Eorzea, I'm willing to bet it's scarce or at least not as common elsewhere. After all, that seems to be the Empire's reason for invasion. In addition, the Empire had never seen Primals before (well, no one had I guess) until one was summoned in the East, then we have all the shit summoned in the West (Eorzea)--nothing in Garlemald that we know of. So I'm led to believe Garlemald is sort of an Aether dry area (which would explain the need for machina over magic; to make as much out of their Aether as they can?) Or maybe the Eastern Primal was only the Emperor's realization that he must kill all huma--Primals.

I also want to point out--are we certain there are only 3 continents? Aldenard, Ilsabard and Othard are the "Great Continents" which doesn't necessarily limit our choices to there. (West, North, East btw) However, Thavanir seems to be an Island or something similar to Vyldbrand (the use of "on" instead of "in"--but I don't know where I'd find the proper preposition for Vyldbrand)

lol Nael van Darnus "The realm has seen six cycles of death and rebirth, yet man refuses to learn from his mistakes. Ever does he find a way to defile the sanctity of creation, and so the cycle must persist. But no more, for I shall halt the turning of this wheel of darkness! He has willed that it be so, and so must it be! Dalamud's coming shall cleanse the realm of its foul taint! Only the wicked would refuse His gift of purity! Only the wicked would seek to prevent His return!"

So Nael wants to stop the Astral-Umbral cycle by causing the Seventh Umbral Era? What a dickface. If I remember rightly they use the words "foul taint" to talk about the Primals/summoning of frequently--so Bahamut's jealousy/desire for mo aether mo money is probable. (Being that I think Eorzea has the highest concentration of oil------I mean Aether) Also there is a mention of a "realm bereft of the Crystal's light" by Nael. I'm willing to bet the Crystal is beneath Eorzea (probs Mor'Dhona) and the source of all Aether--our use of aether (ceruleum, magicks) is wrong or some shit and so is our summoning of false Gods or some shit. (Again though, Bahamut IS one of these Gods) The whole Crystal shit seems to be a big deal in ARR too.

Also I never knew the last message to Eorzea was "Confound it! We've lost contact with the main host!" and then the End of an Era trailer played '~'? I logged off like a minute before, kind of wish I didn't now!

We don't talk of the second half of Mezaya Thousand Eye's seventh verse so here it is:

Seven moons waning see seven moons rise,
Divine order roils, fallen corpses writhe.
Souls from aether far, strangers from strange lands
Yester with thine eyes, morrow by thy hand

The first verse is obviously 1.0:

Ne'er till land consumes sun can sea bear moons,
Heavens spew crimson flame, hells seep black dooms.
Stray seeds quicken in ash's gray embrace,
Valiant blades forged under the Twelve's good grace.

So I think the second verse is 2.0; now putting my worthless degree to use (lol)

Spoiler: show

Back to Rivenroad, Cid's dialogue about "only Allagan tech could do it" and what-not: his wording makes me think we'll see more floating islands and what-not. Probably home to some Atma Weapon amirite.

Also worth noting Nael refers to all of 'humanity' as beasts; the Garleans are referred to as such as readily as we are in United We Stand. At least that's how I understood the line "No more will I need of machines covered in the slaver of beasts" or some shit and the camera pans to the Magitek Generators / Lunar Transmitter; ofc the slaver could be from us beating it up but I think he's too crazy for that easy out.

Oh, looking at Nael's last words (before he goes DEUS ex machina on us) supports him hating erryone. The Emperor, Gaius etc all being fools-- the worst people hail from his land blah blah OH! Here it is: "Blindly they struggle to exterminate the primals in the name of conquest. Yet what worth is there in a realm bereft of the crystals' light? What has become of Garlean pride that we must scavenge the leavings of false gods!?"

During To Kill A Raven all of Deus' battle text is in italics. Could this be, uh, Bahamut's voice instead of Nael's? [I never did Nevermore :< but that shit ain't canon anyway]

Spoiler: show

Anyways that's boring & stupid now that I went through and found them.

Did the blow that felled the White Raven come too late? Or is there another force that works to bring down Dalamud? OH YOU LOUISOIX

It's interesting to note he says he carves the "temporal representations" of the Twelve (the symbols) but also he carved them at the resting places of the Twelve, he refers to the spots as where they slumber '~'

**Rocl** · 2012-12-17 07:09

With the new year on like 2 weeks away I thought I'd point out both of Yoshi-P's New Year's posts have included a verse from Mezaya Thousand Eyes. wtf will we get this year???

if we get an Eighth Umbral Era I'mma be pissed cuz ain't no one care about Edea and shit

**Xanthe** · 2012-12-17 07:26

Originally Posted by Rocl

Stray seeds quicken in ash's gray embrace (Eorzea's quick call to action, Eorzean alliance, adventurers etc)

One caveat regarding your analysis. It's highly unlikely that "quicken" here refers to speed or response time. Given the context of "seeds" (birth) and "ash" (death/destruction) it refers to life/coming to life. Think of the more in the context of "The Quick (alive) and the Dead." Fun fact, the living, growing part of a fingernail/claw is called the quick. To that end the phrase is more likely referring to the seeds of unity among the three city-states growing out of the destruction that took place at the rise of the 7th Umbral Era. What started as a tenuous alliance has become something more substantive.

**solracht** · 2012-12-17 07:27

Originally Posted by Rocl

Ahhh I had some sort of realization I think I had earlier wherein the Allagans imprisoned Bahamut not so much b/c they couldn't deal with so much as they don't wanna fite him forever. By keeping him in the physical realm, he could not be summoned elsewhere (as far as we know); so it's kind of ingenious really. But I think I've stated this before, lol.

Relevant:

Originally Posted by solracht

If Bahamut can just vanish after running out of aether like the normal primals then I don't know how he was able to be imprisoned far away from the planet for so long, unless Dalamud was supplying him enough aether to keep him corporeal. Now the questions are whether Dalamud could've run out of aether, and whether Bahamut could've just been resummoned back in Eorzea if that happened. This would be interesting too, since it would make Dalamud pretty much a time bomb, and the calamity would've happened eventually regardless of the Empire's actions (maybe that's how the prophecy started... the allags knew the banishment wouldn't be permanent...).

Originally Posted by Rocl

Despite the prevalence of Aether and Aetheryte in Eorzea, I'm willing to bet it's scarce or at least not as common elsewhere. After all, that seems to be the Empire's reason for invasion.
....
"Blindly they struggle to exterminate the primals in the name of conquest. Yet what worth is there in a realm bereft of the crystals' light? What has become of Garlean pride that we must scavenge the leavings of false gods!?"

Inbefore the Twelve shattered the Mothercrystal below Eorzea and that's the origin of the aetherstream. Also, the Empire needs the stream because they don't have Zilart technology to use the mothercrystals directly.

You heard it here first, folks.
------

I'll make a real post later, Rocl, I PROMISE. Been busy lately :<

**Rocl** · 2012-12-17 07:45

Originally Posted by Xanthe

One caveat regarding your analysis. It's highly unlikely that "quicken" here refers to speed or response time. Given the context of "seeds" (birth) and "ash" (death/destruction) it refers to life/coming to life. Think of the more in the context of "The Quick (alive) and the Dead." Fun fact, the living, growing part of a fingernail/claw is called the quick. To that end the phrase is more likely referring to the seeds of unity among the three city-states growing out of the destruction that took place at the rise of the 7th Umbral Era. What started as a tenuous alliance has become something more substantive.

I knew my word choice would come back to bite me =P Sorry, I meant more or less what you say but my parenthetical notes are shitty. The formation of the Eorzean Alliance (out of the revival of the Grand Companies) and the inclusion of Adventurers into such was what I was trying to get it. Though, I do think it happened fairly quickly but it's hard to judge Eorzean space-time. What you say is definitely better said than me rambling at 3 AM tho :< IGNORE ME

Originally Posted by solracht

Relevant:

My issue with this is: How do we know they vanish after running out of Aether? We cause them physical (well Aetherical idfk) harm during Primal fights--do we know of any instance where they just up and disappear cuz LOL TIME'S UP (I guess if you consider like Lord Errant or something it gets muddled) Again, with Lord Errant we see a sort of proper summoning, we can't see who summons Garuda/Ifrit again (both are present when we arrive) Though, I guess, parts of the Lord Errant summoning are re-used for the It Kills With Fire summoning so \'~'/ Even if Primals do vanish after a set time, I could see "Elder" being different (isn't Odin supposed to be wandering about? I mean I guess he could do it for an hour every so often)

I thought someone had posited the idea of Dalamud as a means to impair summoning Bahamut! (this begs the question how the Dragons know of Bahamut--but I guess the Primals communicate to the Tribes somehow w/o being corporeal) However, just as likely (maybe kind of not rly) is that a constant feed of aether is not necessary to sustain corporeal form after Summoning and the Allags tricked Bahamut somehow by having him summoned (or summoning him!?) to imprison him--then they threw him way over away by the moon so he couldn't get no Aether no-how. Then some jerk decided hey let's bring Dalamud closer and give it all sorts of Aether, that's gonna be AWESOME.

Originally Posted by solracht

I'll make a real post later, Rocl, I PROMISE. Been busy lately :<

I spend hours slaving over a hot YouTube and this is the thanks I get.

**solracht** · 2012-12-17 07:53

Isn't it either implied or said by Louisoix that primals consume aether while they're out? However I think you're correct in the sense that "primals disappear when they run out of aether" isn't said anywhere in the game (I'll recheck Louisoix and Path of the Twelve text to make sure because I'm not positive), but it seems like the next logical step given what we know (primals need aether/crystals to be summoned and then they consume aether while they're out). There isn't really a way to see this happen in Eorzea anyway, since as long as the primal is out, it'll have aether to draw from.

Last edit/post before I run to class:

Ifrit text:

Originally Posted by Louisoix, It Kills with Fire

Ten years ago, an event took place which shook the very foundation of Eorzea: a tribe of beasts summoned forth a primal. So began the spread of summoning till there was not a tribe in this world to whom the practice remained unknown.

Alas, they paid no heed to the consequences of its use. You see, in order to remain in our plane of existence, a primal must needs devour prodigious amounts of aether─the energy bound in crystals and at large throughout all creation.

Consequently, the land is slowly but surely being drained of its aether, and the day fast approaches when the fount will run dry.

The bolded part makes it pretty clear that primals need aether once they're out imo.

Garuda text:

Originally Posted by Louisoix, Taming the Tempest

Even now, she sups upon the power of crystals born in the bosom of the land, redoubling her ferocity and caprice both.

Interestingly enough the Garuda text seems to focus on the city/area damage she could cause (destroying Gridanian settlements) rather than aetheric damage (draining aether) like the Ifrit quest, lol.

**Rocl** · 2012-12-17 08:06

Do we also know Primals are capable of drawing Aether not given to them? If they were freely able to absorb Aether, there'd be no reason for summoning. The only instance that immediately comes to mind is Ifrit/Garuda aether going to Bahamut. However there's a whole bunch of variables there too--was Dalamud designed to scoop Aether to maintain Bahamut? Was it's Nael van Darnus' way of summoning Bahamut--instead of crystals--Primals? Does the amount of Aether used to summon determine strength? (Accounting for Easy/Hard/Extreme) Is it because Bahamut is ALREADY summoned that he can absorb their Aether? Though it's heavily implied he absorbs Nael's Aether as well, so it might not be limited to Primals? Nael's status as human being under Deus is suspect though; he's clearly got some funky magic mojo going on there.

We know whenever the Primals are summoned they go away after some time. Why isn't explained afaik--it could be time, cuz wtf is Lord Errant Ifrit doing right now? Where's the Ala Mhigan Primal? The Eastern? Mythril Pit T-3 Ifrit? etc. It's entirely possible that it's as easy as their corporeal form being killed. I only recall instances of people talking about the ungodly amount of Aether used to summon Gods, not upkeep them--though I didn't watch every CS in one night obviously.

How are crystals used in summoning regardless--I get that they're literally crystalized Aether but what: do they melt them? Chuck em in a pot and do some voodoo shit? It's obvious Aether need not be in that form (actually it isn't, because we only see uncrystalized Aether going to Bahamut, who is already summmoned iirc)

In my head the summoning process was sort of like... opening an Aetherial Gate for the Primal to come through. Maybe something with the mini-Ifrit's echo crystals and Louisoix's spiel about shit we can only see with the proper glasses.

Why is it Aether that is necessary?_? Is it because of magic?

Primals disappearing does follow the FF Tradition of SUMMON-DISAPPEAR or SUMMON-TIME LIMIT LOL tho

EDIT: UGH VAGUES
so it does seem amount of aether = strength, that seems p. straight forward
less straight forward is the draining Aether--we know they do now, but why aren't they there 24/7? I mean like, all the other Ifrits, the Ala Mhigan, the Eastern etc? ib4 Odin saved Ala Mhigo and the Eastern primal is Phoenix -- did they all get adventurHAMMERED?

Either way it leaves us with: Is it inevitable (prophesied, son) because Dalamud would run dry of Aether to feed Bahamut anyway? (Maybe the moon has Aether, dawg) This would mean all Nael van Darnus did was hasten the coming of Bahamut: he was coming to town whether we like it or not.

ib4 this was always the plan for Dalamud and Nael van Darnus is a stand-in for Yoshi-P who said FUCK IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE

**solracht** · 2012-12-17 08:39

Originally Posted by Rocl

why aren't they there 24/7? I mean like, all the other Ifrits, the Ala Mhigan, the Eastern etc? ib4 Odin saved Ala Mhigo and the Eastern primal is Phoenix -- did they all get adventurHAMMERED?

So far I think everything points towards only one Ifrit being out at a time (which also fits ARR's version of primal summoning). He was summoned at different points in the story and every time he ended up disappearing. Why?

Maybe simply draining the surrounding aether isn't enough to stay out (unless the primal is in a place rich with aether like the Falls) and something else is needed (more shards?). Maybe the beastmen didn't have that many shards/crystals/etc for the summoning and that somehow limits how long the primal can stay out. Maybe they were weak enough so that people simply defeated them (like the guys that beat Titan/Leviathan).

--------

BTW, Darnus sort of implies that the prophecy is allagan:

Originally Posted by Nael van Darnus, It Kills With Fire

"Ne'er till land consumes sun can sea bear moons,Heavens spew crimson flame, hells seep black dooms."
I see these words are lost upon you. That the children of this land should have grown up ignorant of the sacred prophecies of yore...
The slumbering emperors of old Allag are surely turning in their graves.

Why would the allagan emperors turn in their graves if not because we forgot their warning?

**Rocl** · 2012-12-21 17:22

Eh, it's probably an Allagan poem yeah.

I don't know the source for this but here's the Umbral Era Elemental Wheel

The First Umbral Era of Wind. Marked the end of the divine era and the beginning of men's age.
The Second Umbral Era of Lightning.
The Third Umbral Era of Fire.
The Fourth Umbral Era of Earth - Destroyed the Allagan civilization.
The Fifth Umbral Era of Ice.
The Sixth Umbral Era of Water - Severe flooding caused the submersion and damage of many parts of Eorzea.

Obviously the Seventh Umbral Era is one of Megaflare.

Now, I'm gonna be spitballing crazy theories here cuz I'm bored as hell but there's a good deal of repetition about sleeping/waking in FFXIV. I'm willing to bet this has a lot to do with the Twelve. nvm i got lazy, suffice to say the idea of sleeping/waking is p. important (we're the Woken Ones, the Twelve are asleep, the lyrics to Answers etc etc)

Also, I never noticed this but there are Six Elements and Twelve Gods--one for the Umbral and Astral respectively >_> Again, I'm probably repeating stuff from earlier in the thread :<

QQ "Tell us why given life we are meant to die" is played when Bahamut descends in front of Louisoix

If anyone has a good Eorzean -> Roman alphabet chart it'd be much appreciated '~'

**miokomioko** · 2012-12-21 18:49

Originally Posted by Rocl

If anyone has a good Eorzean -> Roman alphabet chart it'd be much appreciated '~'

Here you go, toots!

http://ffxivmaps.com/img/character_map.png

Also, some suffix spelling variations:

OR = OUR
CE = S
TION = CION
Y = IE
(English = Eorzean)

**Rocl** · 2012-12-22 04:21

So it looks like the Path of the Twelve has the number "12" written on it--how fitting. Also really annoying that the only difference between 1 and F is a tail.

Each Re-Dalamud "block" has the same text on it, but some are sideways/upside down etc '~' and I'm pretty sure it's the alphabet backwards lol (XWVUT) and sometimes forwards. Right to left, left to right, top to bottom, bottom to top. The writing on the circle around Dalamud II is just ABCDE too (well I can make out XYZs and EFGHIJKs anyways).

The text on the god symbols seem to say something (THE SCHOLAR), it's hard to make out but I think Thaliak is the word before that. The text after Bahamut seems to say shit too, probably the Twelve & what not.

Not really as exciting as I hoped, but the last bit was interesting and I might try again later when I'm not on my laptop. Nothing really earth shattering like "my entire life has been an Echo"

**PrayTheRosary** · 2012-12-25 20:07

I'm not sure about anything of FFXIV, but I have played FFXI for a good number of years. And Have tested FFXIV for a few days.

**Rocl** · 2012-12-28 07:47

lol'd

listening to the rough cuts is hilarious, the opening narration is from ARR tho it sounds like

**Niiro** · 2012-12-28 12:55

From 0:34 on it sounds like B-reel audio for animated porn.

**Manako** · 2012-12-28 13:42

Originally Posted by Niiro

From 0:34 on it sounds like B-reel audio for animated porn.

Yes! that combined with the total cheese that is the new Uldah intro, glad I listened before heading into the office.

**jwang** · 2012-12-29 18:11

1:15 on for Titan: CANT. POOP. NEED. MORE. FIBER.

Thread: FFXIV story/lore thread

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