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Thread: FFXIV story/lore thread     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Spoiler: show
    Let's be honest. Did anyone really think just hucking both Nidhogg's eyes off the side of a bridge would really get rid of them permanently?

    Gotta give some props to the WAR of Darkness though, his VA did a pretty bang-up job delivering his lines, which were also pretty well written.
    Lol yeah, p much. But they are significantly smaller now. Wonder if that is actually gonna be a plotpoint or SE just shrunk them because they wouldn't fit into one hand for a drammatic shot otherwise.

  2. #2002
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    That whole thing pissed me off so much. No one would have been that freaking stupid in the first place. Really hated what, they did with those just to use as a plot device here.

  3. #2003
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    Was a shitty, tropey, Japanese plot. I remember sarcastically asking if we'd ever see those again when I first watched the scene.

    Happy to be disappointed, SE.

  4. #2004
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    The plot was kind of cliche and trope-y, but I feel like the strength of the VAs in this patch (esp. derplander) helped to carry it regardless.

    Also,
    Spoiler: show
    WAKE UP! titan was a pretty memorable moment. Cool way to put a new spin on old content.

  5. #2005
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    Well, then they're just getting better and better at reusing old content

  6. #2006

  7. #2007
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    ok so I'm way behind you guys, hence this is old news to all of you but


    omg Moenbryda. WHYYYYYYYYYY


    best character yet and they go and do that after like five missions. the FFXIV writers are assholes.

  8. #2008

  9. #2009
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    Me upon finding out Lucia is Livia's sister


  10. #2010
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Just to kick the thread up. This is long as fuck speculation, and I am high as shit, so there you go.

    ---

    My girl actually came upon a good idea for Yda's identity -- it is that of her younger (or twin) sister, a name of which we do not know yet. The REAL Yda perished during the Crystal Braves raid on the Scions in Ul'Dah at the end of 2.55. The Yda in all of 3.0 is actually her sister, masquerading as the original Yda, for reasons yet unknown, but should be revealed in 3.56 in a few days. How do we know Yda has a sister? Because of the Lore Book. On page 188 of the lore book, it states as much:

    Quote Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Eorzea, pg 191
    Born in Ala Mhigo, Yda is a Highlander woman whom about much remains a mystery, despite her high profile. What little is known, however, paints a colorful picture of an equally colorful individual. Yda fled her homeland following the invasion of Garlemald in the year 1557 of the Sixth Astral Era. She and her sister first came to the Twelves-wood seeking succor, but were forced to leave after being rejected by the elementals. After moons of wandering and foraging off the land, the found their way to the Dravanian hinterlands. With the air of her future bosom companion, Papalymo, Yda was given a chance to begin her formal education in Sharlayan proper.

    At first, this did not proceed smoothly, given her aversion to the study of letters. All too often, she could be found sating her hunger for lemoncakes rather than books. What Yda lacked in wit, however, she made up with her amazing physical prowess, and in time would channel this talent into becoming an expert pugilist.

    Through a long-time member of the Circle of Knowing and the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, Yda has never forsaken her one true wish: wresting her homeland from the iron clutches of Garlemald.
    This shows us that not only does Yda have a sister, but that they both fled to the Twelveswood, was rejected by the elementals, and then wandered the lands until they got to the Hinterlands and under Papalymo's care. It is in fact because of Papalymo (and Louisoix) that they were granted asylum in the Sharlayan lands:

    Quote Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Eorzea, pg 190
    ...Indeed, it was thanks to their tireless efforts that a group of Ala Mhigan refugees was granted sanctuary in the Sharlayan colony some twenty years past. It was during this time that Papalymo met Yda, and the two established a rapport. When Yda later expressed her desire to liberate Ala Mhigo, Papalymo introduced her again to Louisoix, which led to her introduction into the Circle of Knowing...
    But how did Yda and her sister come to such an impasse? Was it really because of the invasion of Garlemald? Likely not, it may be just a hair bit of time just before the invasion. In the same lore book, on page 175, you learn of what happens to the nation of Ala Mhigo just before the invasion of Garlemald:

    Spoiler: show




    Garlemald literally took advantage of the King of Ruin's fall and nation's disarray to capture Ala Mhigo for it's own at this point. However, before this, he started a purge to anyone who would (or could) lay claim to the throne of Ala Mhigo. We also learn that in the lore book that Widargelt, the MNK in the MNK 50-60 quests, is actually the King of Ruin's nephew, Theored, who was spirited out of Ala Mhigo before he too was killed by his crazy uncle. What if Yda & sister were also that of royalty, even if illegitimate heirs? Their family (or caretakers) had the foresight to get them both out of Ala Mhigo during the King of Ruin's purge, which set them on the path to the Sharlayan state. At this point, most would ask "What if they aren't royalty or nobility at all?" The answer should be apparent to this if you ask -- Why then would Yda (be it the real Yda or her sister) would hide their face behind as mask for so long?

    Cut to the 2.55 story and we see that Yda and Papalymo are both assisting the Warrior of Light & Minfillia in escaping from capture by the Brass Blades:

    Spoiler: show


    (29:39 - 31:53)

    Within the video, you see Yda gets noticeably somber, before apologizing to Papalymo. Papalymo encourages her that they will live on before imbuing her with magic to use a Limit Break 3 type of "grand attack." It's such a grand attack that the animation itself is that of a column of fire that engulfs both her and Papalymo in a blinding light, similar to any grand, epic attack you've ever seen in any shounen manga/anime -- an attack of which costs the user their lives. We obviously know for a fact that Papalymo still lives, but what of Yda?

    (52:47 - 54:33 of above video)

    After the attack at Ul'Dah, you find yourself at the Falling Snows and is reintroduced to a now unmasked Yugiri, who tells you that she and her shinobi sent out a team to look for all of the Scions, but couldn't find a trace of any of them. She then mentions that despite not finding anyone, it wouldn't be impossible for the others to have escaped in the same manner as you did. If Yda perished at this point, Papalymo by this time has begun his own journey to Ala Mhigo (with her corpse in tow) to inform Yda's sister of her passing.

    Skip on down to the end of 3.1 & 3.2, we see Papalymo & Yda fighting with the Resistance to repay the favor of safely getting them out of Ul'Dah during the Crystal Braves raid:

    Spoiler: show


    (36:28 - 37:26)

    What is interesting here at the end of 3.1 is the fact that "Yda" and Papalymo have now joined a Resistance group known as The Masks, which is led by the Griffin, who also wears an imposing mask himself. What we DON'T see in this video is the Yda's face at all, with a mask or not. This had to have been done purposely by storyboard team to convey a sort of message -- It would be all so easy to show off Yda, who we have only ever known wearing a mask, with the front of her face in view. In fact, if you look closely, she's wearing a typical turban that does not have a facial mask attached to it at all. Is she really this confidant to team up with the Resistance, particularly without a mask? Or was this a subtle ploy by SE to convey that Yda's true appearance will be unveiled (eventually)? This is rectified with the next hidden ending in 3.2:

    Spoiler: show


    (12:53 - 13:53)

    The story team basically give her her mask right back. However in this cutscene we see a very cautious Papalymo warning Yda to not put her faith into the Masks until they know more about their intent. What makes this short exchange interesting is the fact that Yda seems to have even more of a sense of urgency to get something started in the sense of liberating Ala Mhigo. It begs the question of why would Yda be so interested in liberating Ala Mhigo, when the more important task for her at the time should have been finding her Scion buddies and the Warrior of Light and making sure they are all OK. We then skip to 3.4, and find ourselves rejoining with the pair regardless after watching a fiery speech by The [Fake] Griffin:

    Spoiler: show


    (7:59 - 12:35)

    The pair, Alphinaud and yourself agree to meet at a spot out of ear shot of the Masks, and then the four of you begin catching up on matters. Alphinaud straight up questions the two on what they were doing, to which Papalymo responds that they were repaying a favor to "old friends from the Resistance" (this part of his response becomes interesting soon) by staying with them and helping them with operations. If we were to believe that the original Yda has been killed and this new Yda, her sister, has taken up her identity, it would make sense to believe that these old friends of the Resistance and the Masks are not one and the same Ala Mhigan resistance group and instead are doing joint operations together. In fact, Papalymo continues and states that the Griffin (whom we know now was Ilberd) doesn't want the pair to be meddling in his affairs (because he knows and allowed them to assist/infiltrate the Masks' resistance efforts as part of his plan). Papalymo then explains how The Real Griffin is extremely distrusting of outsiders before Yda butts by musing "It's hard to know what to make of it all. The secrecy, the impersonators, the masks...". Note that the "masks" part is italicized almost to emphasize the irony of Yda herself wearing a mask as a form of subterfuge herself. The background music then ironically cuts down in volume as Yda walks back what she just stated. The four of you then get together and arrange a meeting with the Fake Griffin to ascertain the Real Griffin's intentions. You then go your separate ways with Yda & Papalymo searching for the crystals the Fake Griffin said they didn't have at the base while you go to bring the Warriors of Darkness conflict to a close. Skip to the end of that, and you find yourself meeting back up with the pair, when the most interesting dialogue begins:

    Spoiler: show


    (3:21 - 6:05)

    You & Alphinaud meet up with Yda and Papalymo to which you discuss what has happened to Minfillia while they were searching for the smuggled crystals. Papalymo and Yda agree to rejoin the Scions finally before being interrupted by Gundobald. Gundobald is overjoyed at seeing Yda alive and healthy. The generic "tension & brooding" music plays in the background as Gundobald continues: "Yda, alive and standing here before me, in the flesh! I can hardly believe my eyes!" Yda is then visibly flustered and fails to stammer out a response before Gundobald explains to her (and us, the viewer) that not only did he fight 20 years prior with Yda's dad in the revolution against Garlemald, but that Yda herself also assisted in the resistance efforts in some form or fashion at the time as well. Papalymo visibly draws a frown on his face, and Yda stands there stunned. Gundobald then continues -- Yda had been helping the Resistance until one fateful day she up and disappeared. The groups of 20 years ago assumed she was dead, and that was the end of it. What's even more peculiar is the fact that Gundobald mentions "...here you are, alive and well, looking nary a day older!" The facade behind Yda now begins to fade, as she stammers out pathetic response, complete with stuttering and incorrect information on what she had been doing in the last 20 years. She first mentions that she was with the Scions, then corrects herself and states that she was with the Circle of Knowing, before finally dropping the conversation by saying it was all "secretive stuff." She then hurriedly takes off, mentioning that her friends need her and that her and Gundobald would talk later. Gundobald leaves along with Alphinaud and the Warrior of Light, leaving Papalymo alone, who muses out aloud over giving Yda her mask. If you go back and speak to Gundobald after the cutscene, he says this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundobald
    Yda's father was one of the finest men I've ever known. A true leader of the revolution. He inspired countless others to rise up and cast down the tyrant Theodoric, and fought tirelessly for the land he loved.
    ...But not even he could inspire us to victory over the Garleans. He died...and I grew old. But Yda carried on his legacy─our legacy...
    We then head back to the Rising Stones, where we hand over Tupsimati to Papalymo, who ironically and intuitively must have known (aka Chekov's Gun) that The Griffin would make a move that would require him to use such an item to halt his motives. We then get to the last video in 3.5 -- at Papalymo's very last words before himself perishing:

    Spoiler: show


    (11:25 - 18:10)

    Papalymo consigns himself to seal away the primal using the same technique his master used to seal Bahamut years ago, and then begs the group to escape while they can. Yda of course protests, with Papalymo instructing Thancred to carry her off by force and that Yda has a path "that only she can walk." Papalymo instructs you to get on the ship, and the group takes off. As the ship flies by, Papalymo says something very enigmatic in that moment -- "I bid thee farewell again, my dear Yda..."

    How it all comes together:

    If this Yda in the 3.X is in fact the REAL Yda, it should have been simple to respond to Gundobald about her whereabouts for the last 20 years. Even if we were to believe Yda to be a klutz, and not a real scholar like the other Scions, she would at least know what has been going on in her own life over the years... unless she is not in fact the Yda that we know. It makes more sense to believe here that sometime in-between 2.55 and 3.4, her sister, who may have grown up in the last 20 years to look exactly as the original Yda looked... enough to have been able to fool Gundobald. We know now because of the lore book that both Yda & her sister were spirited away to the Twelvewood to seek asylum from, then to the Dravanian hinterlands. The cutscene with Gundobald shows us that Yda participated in the resistance efforts even as a child/young adult, which should peg her at around 6~18 years of age 20 years ago. Speaking of Yda's age, what is VERY interesting to note is that every person who is part of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn has a reported age in the lore book EXCEPT Yda. Yda is literally the ONLY person in the lore book without a reported age recorded in it. This only compounds the problem, when you view the cutscene with Gundobald. If you read what he says head on, you can assume that Yda was closer to 18 or so during the resistance, hence the reason why he mentions that she doesn't look like she aged a bit (if we assume that the sister is not a twin and is instead a much younger, baby sister). If you assume that her [younger] sister has now taken her sister's identity, it all makes sense why this Yda was stammering and at a loss on how to respond to Gundobald, before running off. She simply doesn't know what her sister has been up to, at least not in detail.

    Finally the only ties that my girl has to the original Yda being dead is of course the attack she performed at the end of 2.55, but also of Papalymo saying that he's bidding farewell to Yda AGAIN as he's casting the sealing spell. Has any never not seen the two apart or can remember a time when they were apart for a significant amount of time? Not only this, but to choose this as his final words speaks more of the first parting being just as painful to him as the current event. If Yda had perished prior to this, it makes way more sense to state this, even if it's Yda's sister. Why regret giving this Yda the mask? He may have regretted that he pushed upon Yda's sister this great task. It would have been all the more easy to have told Gundobald & the Scions at some point that the Yda that everyone knew has died (or at least went away) and now have to deal with her sister.

    However, assuming that Yda is dead and the sister has replaced her opens up way more questions and plotholes that would need to be resolved. Have we been travelling with both Yda AND her sister this entire time? If it is in fact Yda's sister, was she also trained in the Sharlayan pugilist methods like her sister? Did she also take part in the mass exodus from the Hinterlands in 1562? If so, how did she make her way back to Thanalan region? Why does Yda still wear a mask? What are they still hiding if the original Yda has perished? Or perhaps we have never known the REAL Yda, and this has been Yda's sister masquerading as her all along, while the real Yda has made her way back to Ala Mhigo, or is at some undisclosed location.

    One could also envision that Papalymo knew the original Yda, and that she DID perish 20 years ago as Gundobald mentioned, and has since changed the sisters name to "Yda" before raising her himself. This theory also makes the most use of the final words that Papalymo says before casting the sealing spell.

  11. #2011
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    After making such a mega post, I realized that the very last line is even more plausible than assuming Yda died in 2.55. It's simply cleaner to just say that the "Yda" we've known has been the sister all along, and that we never knew the original Yda at all. It literally resolves just about every question anyone would have concerning the Gundobald cutscene, as well as Papalymo's final words.

  12. #2012
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    Could be. But it begs the question of why we, as players, would care about a reveal that she isn't the original Yda if this is the one we've known the whole time and are (the writers must assume) attached to? Yda's sister is a non-entity to most players, so it seems pretty far-fetched that the writers would spend an entire expansion building up a reveal that Yda took her older sister's (who we never knew) name. Unless I'm missing something and the original Yda (if she did indeed die 20 years ago) is significant to the story in some way - because she sure wouldn't be to the player. Or is this a 1.0 thing? I didn't play it so I wouldn't know.

    Immediately we understand that in the grand scope of things, Yda and Papalymo meeting up with the Ala Mhigan rebels is a lead directly into Stormblood's story and will be setting that up for us, so Yda and Papalymo's recent part in the story had to happen regardless. Some enigmatic things were indeed said, but I wonder how significant they will really end up being. Since the XIV writers are overly fond of red herrings and lazy writing, with most grand and emotional scenes culminating into nothing worthwhile, I've just been burned too many times to readily believe that they'll do Yda's backstory any justice. I also feel like we've had way too many instances in this story so far of people covertly switching places with each other. This sort of Scooby Doo writing where they pull the mask off the ghost only to reveal the old shopkeep from down the street is getting really old, so I hope they don't do this to Yda too.

  13. #2013
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    Could be. But it begs the question of why we, as players, would care about a reveal that she isn't the original Yda if this is the one we've known the whole time and are (the writers must assume) attached to? Yda's sister is a non-entity to most players, so it seems pretty far-fetched that the writers would spend an entire expansion building up a reveal that Yda took her older sister's (who we never knew) name. Unless I'm missing something and the original Yda (if she did indeed die 20 years ago) is significant to the story in some way - because she sure wouldn't be to the player. Or is this a 1.0 thing? I didn't play it so I wouldn't know.
    It really depends on how you look at things. If this theory is to be believed, it's will be not only an ending chapter of a major character in the narrative, but also the subsequent beginning of an entirely "new" major character, now free of any Scion duties.

    It's also not much of a stretch to assume that Yda took her sister's name if you realize she was quite possibly a baby at the time to begin with. I must remind you again that we have no idea how old Yda is, only that she's 20+ and has seen active resistance missions 20 years ago. Why is this important? Because it pegs Yda's actual real age closer to her mid to late 30s, if not her 40s (Papalymo is 42 by comparison). Does Yda's character look like she could pass as someone who's 33~40? If we assume that the real Yda died 20 years ago and her baby sister assumed her name (because reasons), it would place this Yda at around 25~26, which is far more plausible (and compelling) story (would also make her a child solider).

    The personal stories of the Scions didn't get much time to fully develop in 1.0 before the project was killed; the 2.X story has everything pretty much covered now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    Immediately we understand that in the grand scope of things, Yda and Papalymo meeting up with the Ala Mhigan rebels is a lead directly into Stormblood's story and will be setting that up for us, so Yda and Papalymo's recent part in the story had to happen regardless. Some enigmatic things were indeed said, but I wonder how significant they will really end up being. Since the XIV writers are overly fond of red herrings and lazy writing, with most grand and emotional scenes culminating into nothing worthwhile, I've just been burned too many times to readily believe that they'll do Yda's backstory any justice. I also feel like we've had way too many instances in this story so far of people covertly switching places with each other. This sort of Scooby Doo writing where they pull the mask off the ghost only to reveal the old shopkeep from down the street is getting really old, so I hope they don't do this to Yda too.
    Maybe... maybe not. Killing off Papalymo really feels like it was a forced decision to serve as a basis behind allowing Yda to serve her greater purpose in liberating Ala Mhigo, but it honestly didn't have to happen at all. I will have to agree with you on the red herrings, though I won't say it was entirely bad writing -- killing off the Sultana was pretty compelling, until they turned it around again and made her not dead. They do have some that punch you in the gut however, like the killing of Haurchefant.

  14. #2014
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    3.56 spoilers:

    Spoiler: show


    So for the most part we (her mostly) was right. Having "Yda" die at 2.55 didn't make as much sense however, while I didn't give Lyse enough time to grow into her role from 20 years ago (they wrote the real Yda in as dying 1 year prior to the events at 1.0; 6 years before 2.0/3.0). Either way, it was a very interesting thought experiment.

  15. #2015
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    Spoiler: show
    I was totally right about it being her in the trailer.

  16. #2016
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Spoiler: show
    I was totally right about it being her in the trailer.
    Spoiler: show
    I think just about anyone could have come to this basic conclusion if you had a pulse. The real fun of it all was to figure out if it was Yda or her sister and why.

    Also a good deal of people didn't even know it was the sister and just assumed it an unmasked Yda.

  17. #2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    It really depends on how you look at things. If this theory is to be believed, it's will be not only an ending chapter of a major character in the narrative, but also the subsequent beginning of an entirely "new" major character, now free of any Scion duties.

    It's also not much of a stretch to assume that Yda took her sister's name if you realize she was quite possibly a baby at the time to begin with. I must remind you again that we have no idea how old Yda is, only that she's 20+ and has seen active resistance missions 20 years ago. Why is this important? Because it pegs Yda's actual real age closer to her mid to late 30s, if not her 40s (Papalymo is 42 by comparison). Does Yda's character look like she could pass as someone who's 33~40? If we assume that the real Yda died 20 years ago and her baby sister assumed her name (because reasons), it would place this Yda at around 25~26, which is far more plausible (and compelling) story (would also make her a child solider).

    The personal stories of the Scions didn't get much time to fully develop in 1.0 before the project was killed; the 2.X story has everything pretty much covered now.



    Maybe... maybe not. Killing off Papalymo really feels like it was a forced decision to serve as a basis behind allowing Yda to serve her greater purpose in liberating Ala Mhigo, but it honestly didn't have to happen at all.
    Yeah, it feels like he was a bit TOO eager to take one for the team. I predicted before 3.5 he'd be the one that would be off'd since he seems more disposable, and I knew the writers would think they gotta kill someone off for the drama of an end-of-expansion patch and to push
    Spoiler: show
    "Yda's
    story further.

  18. #2018
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlweathers View Post
    Yeah, it feels like he was a bit TOO eager to take one for the team. I predicted before 3.5 he'd be the one that would be off'd since he seems more disposable, and I knew the writers would think they gotta kill someone off for the drama of an end-of-expansion patch and to push
    Spoiler: show
    "Yda's
    story further.
    Yes, I agree 100%. The problem behind it is that the impact of his death wasn't as impactful as other major deaths that we'd seen before. Most people are like "oh well, had to happen," which is really unfortunate for him.

    If Yoshi-Ps hinting is to be believed, at or approximately patch 4.3 the story will start to shift from the story around Othard to mainly The Isle of Val and the Sharlayan homeland. It would have been a perfect new role for Papalymo to have been written into.

  19. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Spoiler: show
    I think just about anyone could have come to this basic conclusion if you had a pulse. The real fun of it all was to figure out if it was Yda or her sister and why.

    Also a good deal of people didn't even know it was the sister and just assumed it an unmasked Yda.
    Spoiler: show
    I guess you'd be surprised how many people don't have a pulse, then. Argued with more than a few people on the matter.

    "Oh just because she's blonde with blue eyes doesn't mean anything!!"

    "Where is her tattoo!!"

    "It's a dancer not a monk!!!!!!"

  20. #2020
    Sandworm Swallows
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    7,158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    I also feel like we've had way too many instances in this story so far of people covertly switching places with each other. This sort of Scooby Doo writing where they pull the mask off the ghost only to reveal the old shopkeep from down the street is getting really old, so I hope they don't do this to Yda too.
    Spoiler: show
    Welp.
    At least Sho got to be right.

    But as I pointed out, we didn't know the real Yda so...meh. This one is Yda now as far as I'm concerned. Why not.


    And Papalymo being seen as disposable is because he was. He had the least to do in the story, being the token Lala black mage more than anything else. Well, I'm sure he'll come back in some capacity too. They all do. It's like friggin DBZ up in here.