FFXIV story/lore thread

[matic]

so, mostly due to this thread (and the OF lore forum), I've been getting balls deep into 1.0 story. I've never been a big lore guy, but I love a good mystery, and I think that's what is grabbing me here.

Anyway, I've started re-watching 1.0 cutscenes, since its been like 4 years. Things I wanted to bring up:

- omg the cutscenes we have now are shit. I forgot that level of quality all across the 1.0 board was better in this area, specifically lighting and character animation. And I want the old Ul'dah bgm back asap.

- in the opening city CS, your character looks up and sees a vision of fire falling from the skies. Is this a vision from the past or the future? Is it a past Calamity or the future Calamity that we later lived through? In other words, are we seeing a vision of Dalamud going boom? I honestly always thought the whole Dalamud thing was invented on the fly to take advantage of the re-boot debacle, but it seems clear that at least something big and bad was in the works from the start. Pretty obvious, it being an FF. It's mostly irrelevant as well; guess I'm just curious as to how the story would have gone had the game not initially failed, and just how much the ARR storyline skews from the original draft.

- anyway, the fire in the sky. Am I wrong in presuming that the opening cutscenes are Echoes? If so, your character is seeing a vision of the past/future while in an Echo which is sort of interesting/confusing

- any thoughts on why the Ascian we saw in 1.0 looked like a badass creature from a nightmare, and not like the Hyurs we see now? I feel like they wouldn't be that lazy with their ret-conning.

Also, thanks for having this thread, it's been illuminating so far.

[Niiro]

The quality of 1.0 writing and cutscenes, atmosphere, world design, etc. were leaps and bounds ahead of 2.0 and is by far the thing I miss most.

- any thoughts on why the Ascian we saw in 1.0 looked like a badass creature from a nightmare, and not like the Hyurs we see now? I feel like they wouldn't be that lazy with their ret-conning.

You'd be wrong.

[Rocl]

- omg the cutscenes we have now are shit. I forgot that level of quality all across the 1.0 board was better in this area, specifically lighting and character animation. And I want the old Ul'dah bgm back asap.

decent/good story/gfx but awful fucking gameplay. now it's simply acceptable levels of both pillars.
also i miss a lot of old themes ;-;

- in the opening city CS, your character looks up and sees a vision of fire falling from the skies. Is this a vision from the past or the future?

Going off of memory since I'm a bit busy atm to rewatch CS but it's probably an Echo. We're given a lot of information which intimates that the starshower we see is a consequence of the Battle of Silvertear Falls (original 1.0 opening; midgardsormr and agrius going kaboom empire vs dragons etc etc)

Basically we Echo into the past to see the "sounding of the Echo" (quote from Papalymo in 1.0)

Is it a past Calamity or the future Calamity that we later lived through? In other words, are we seeing a vision of Dalamud going boom?

In 1.0 it was not intended to be Dalamud's fall. Even in 1.2x it was never hinted at that.

The Battle of Silvertear Falls (the starshower) sets up a lot of the game, so it's important enough to remind us of it. (If you're super careful you can see Titan/Ifrit being summoned/freed when Midgardsormr plunges Agrius into the heart of Eorzea's aether.)

I honestly always thought the whole Dalamud thing was invented on the fly to take advantage of the re-boot debacle, but it seems clear that at least something big and bad was in the works from the start.

Yes and no, I think, again can't look it up/find sources so it may be wrong but I recall that Yoshida said Dalamud was always intended to be a man-made satellite and that the original plan was for the players to visit it. However using Bahamut and crashing Dalamud weren't planned. The Allagan Empire was only mentioned very briefly before the 7UE storyline began-- it was only referenced by the Allagan Sunway and Starway in Thanalan and Allagan Snails.

It's mostly irrelevant as well; guess I'm just curious as to how the story would have gone had the game not initially failed, and just how much the ARR storyline skews from the original draft.

Multiply whatever you feel by 10,000 and you'll come close to how I feel. Immense longing that knows no ends. Gaius' portrayal in 2.0 is so weird compared to the badass in 1.0. Ah well, c'est la vie.

- anyway, the fire in the sky. Am I wrong in presuming that the opening cutscenes are Echoes? If so, your character is seeing a vision of the past/future while in an Echo which is sort of interesting/confusing

When in doubt, it's an Echo within an Echo. Most of the events in the opening storylines of 1.0 take place in an Echo.
Using the Ul'dah cutscene for frame of reference:
you're in a carriage and hear "feel, hear, think" - present day 1.0
you get off the carriage and see f'hlaminn, ascilia, grienfarr - 15 years prior 1.0 (or was it 10? gdi)
you defeat the goobbue and see the starshower - still 15 years prior
you go to momodi - present day 1.0

any thoughts on why the Ascian we saw in 1.0 looked like a badass creature from a nightmare, and not like the Hyurs we see now? I feel like they wouldn't be that lazy with their ret-conning.

Again, immense longing. However given Elidibus' dialogue in 2.1 it seems that an Ascian's observed form isn't static. "Knowledge dictates expectation, and expectation colours perception." It's possible we see most Ascians as Hyur because they've either possessed Hyurs or we're used to seeing a possessed Thancred. However, it does appear to be something they're working on answering. After all in 1.0 we met an Ascian as a grim reaper and an Ascian as an Elezen, so it's not totally unprecedented and new to 2.0.

As a general aside, I don't think we've ever used the Echo to travel FORWARD in time, only backwards.

[Niiro]

I'd consider the fire vision in the opening CS to be Hydy giving us a prophetic vision (we hear her voice calling to us moments before).

[Obsidian]

How does the intro for Limsa work? Is it all present-day except for the vision of the star shower?

[Rocl]

No, as I recall you Echo in as soon as your character goes above deck. There's a tell-tale woosh noise the game makes when you Echo in 1.0 though there's no explanation of it until much later and even then it's easy to miss/misunderstand the noise.

[Obsidian]

How's that work in the context of the cutscene though? Everyone on the boat seems to react Leviathan's attack including the guy you meet below-deck. And you fight the jellyfish things with Y'shtola.

The intros are such a mind fuck.

[Rocl]

How's that work in the context of the cutscene though? Everyone on the boat seems to react Leviathan's attack including the guy you meet below-deck. And you fight the jellyfish things with Y'shtola.

The intros are such a mind fuck.

That's not Leviathan, it's a generic Sea Serpent. All of the battle tutorials take place within the Echo. If you see a member of the Circle of Knowing and it isn't the final quest (Futures Perfect) or a grand company storyline, you're in the Echo.

I'd have to rewatch the cutscene to tell you the exact moments you go in/out of the Echo. I may do so during the maintenance or you can do it yourself and listen for SWOOSH WOOSH WHASH noises.

[Niiro]

I never got any impression that you were in the echo during the LL opening CS.

[Rocl]

You were.



About 1:50-1:55, the song entitled "The Echo" on the Before Meteor OST begins to play and you hear the woosh then see the starshower. As you're going above deck.

[Niiro]

Yea....I get that the meteor shower part wasn't real but the shock back to reality with the storm hitting you (which you can hear below deck before you emerge) I see as you being jerked out of the vision.

[Rocl]

Sthalmann, the guy who says "stow the damn gawpers" doesn't exist in the 1.0 present as Sthalmann. He exists as Rusted Steel or something similar, gone into hiding after orchestrating the death of the Admiral etc.
The clue is guessing at Roegadyn language "steel man." I can't recall specifics but I was under the impression the sea serpent attacked that ship as it had either the tablet or key he stole from Seal Rock or Swallowtail Roam (again I can never keep the two straight in my head). Afterwards, going into the Drowning Wench you talk of a sea serpent and that freaks people out because there hasn't been a sighting in some years and we're talking nonsense. As I recall, Hob is the captain of the boat which delivers us to Limsa Lominsa, not Sthalmann. blah blah Sthalmann = Echo I guarantee it

He's Limsa Lominsa's Minfilia, rather I mean he's the character who changes significantly whether or not you're in the Echo. Same with the Hermit of the Wood and Khrim in Gridania.

[Niiro]

Wait is he also the guy you did stuff with in the MRD questline?

I remember something like he tricks you into helping him steal something from the ship that was the MRD HQ.

[Rocl]

I never did the MRD quests in 1.0 (hell my WAR still isn't 50) but I would not be surprised. He turned out to be a bit of a drunk and featured semi-frequently in the Lominsan MSQ.

Upon further review at Gamer Escape, yes.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Rostnsthal

I thought he changed from Sea Wolf to Hellsguard naming convention but I was mistaken.

[matic]

Appreciate the replies/speculation/answers.

It would be amazing to have some kind of "Echo Quest" system that allows us to re-play main story quests/CSes from 1.0, including White Raven fight. It's not like they don't have the assets sitting around, and the Echo gives the perfect excuse from a lore perspective. Not to mention they basically set the precedent already with Minstrel's Ballad. Would give players like us that hit of nostalgia while also giving new players a grounding in the world/appreciation for the story.

Also, I want to post in the patch notes thread but am 6 posts away from posting access in that forum; I noticed a list of Atmas in the patch notes, such as:

Atma of the Lion The crystallized soul of a formiddable foe felled in outer La Noscea.

Looks like fighting spawned bosses for job-specific Atmas in the open world to upgrade relics. Kind of getting an Abyssea AF3 tokens vibe, and not because of the word atma.

[Rocl]

Yeah, it's probably not best to speculate too much based on those notes when we have a little over 24 hours to go. (Awh hell who I am kidding)

I wonder if Atma of the Lion will drop off of a Behemoth again

[matic]

also, as drg main, i agree, fuck Liberator. My ryunohige dreams will remain unfullfilled.

[matic]

There's an NPC refugee in the Rising Stones named Doware who, during the MSQ says:

"In my native land, there exists individuals not unlike these "adventurers." Yet without a master to serve, how does one know the path that one must walk?


I know it's expected anyway but samurai confirmed?

[Rocl]

I think that's reaching, but again wouldn't be surprising. Considering Doma is the "Far East."

The very end of the MSQ seems to point towards Thief and Ninja. (The NPCs Yugiri meets with, Limsa Lominsa's underground, looks suspiciously like FFT Thieves and Yugiri is obviously a ninja and a lizard person)

There's a bunch of little MSQ/Coil stuff I wanna geek out about but I'll give people some time to finish it.

[Eldelphia]

I think Ninja is coming - not sure about THF. Maybe Thancred THF and Yugiri NIN

Spoiler: show