Another Middle East Crisis, Syrian Special "WMD"

[ronin sparthos]

no bueno for anyone

unless you are of the belief the one thing Islamists lack is a way to kill larger amounts of people

It's a no win scenario but lets not pretend we give a shit about the people on the ground from the US leaderships point of view. This isn't a humanitarian mission or even some heartfelt attempt to stop the mass butchery going on every day in Syria.

If we go in, its to secure those chemical weapons to cover our own asses and if that means some Syrians benefit then that's a plus but it certainly isn't intended as the primary objective. If some other countries feel so threatened by the stockpiles finding their way into the hands of terrorists then they'd stand up and be ready to go in with the US acting as a facilitator rather than us unilaterally going in to America: Fuck Yeah Assad.

[Andalusian girls]

you do realize that the Arab League is standing up and ready to go in following a U.S./U.N. lead, that they've been begging for U.N. intervention for over a year, that they drafted the specific proposal detailing the nature the intervention would take, that they offered their own troops and supplies in support of the mission, and that they are now the ones illicitly arming the Syrian rebels

[kuronosan]

I think the prudent course of action at this point would be the one that paints us as supporters and not aggressors. I find it funny that Romney made it a point saying we should have went into Syria long ago but that sort of action is precisely why we're so despised. Letting the rest of the world go "oh fuck we need to do something" and then following their lead would be a good way to say "Well, now what fuckers?".

[myreality]

I agree with the sentiment of "Damned if we do, Damned if we don't".

I am having trouble believing the American media because they made it a point to highlight Iran, speculating that they were funneling in weapons to Assad while hardly mentioning Russia was allied to Assad as well.

But i would support intervention if Assad showed intent of using chemical warfare, I would not support intervention otherwise due to the fact that this is the Syrians people fight to evict a tyrant and should do so without intervention. This would make their victory all that more important and would strengthen their resolve to help themselves later down the line. (Meant by "Helping Themselves" to elect proper government officials and ousting corrupt ones).

[ronin sparthos]

you do realize that the Arab League is standing up and ready to go in following a U.S. lead, that they've been begging for U.N. intervention for over a year, that they drafted the specific proposal detailing the nature the intervention would take, that they offered to their own troops and supplies in support of the mission, and that they are now the ones illicitly arming the Syrian rebels

And the Arab League is going to do all of nothing directly until the U.S pulls the trigger on Syria. And that doesn't happen until Assad is confirmed to have used chemical weapons his populace which would force Russia and China to keep quiet as their puppet falls.

Again, if the concern was so grave the Arab League would be in there already without US support Russia and China be damned.

[ringthree]

you do realize that the Arab League is standing up and ready to go in following a U.S./U.N. lead, that they've been begging for U.N. intervention for over a year, that they drafted the specific proposal detailing the nature the intervention would take, that they offered their own troops and supplies in support of the mission, and that they are now the ones illicitly arming the Syrian rebels

The Arab League is standing up and ready to go in? The gap between the words and actions on that is the Grand Canyon.

[Day]

Is the internet still cut off there? Here's one of the last videos out of Syria before the internet was cut off last week.. seriously... SERIOUSLY NSFL. Shows results of a barrel bomb, injured children, many dead. Was following this a bit on reddit last week. Shits kind of crazy over there. Video ruined my day when I watched it.
Register to see the NSFW content

[Andalusian girls]

well fuck

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ads-order?lite

The military has loaded the precursor chemicals for sarin, a deadly nerve gas, into aerial bombs that could be dropped onto the Syrian people from dozens of fighter-bombers, the officials said.

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

Clinton said the Syrian government was on the brink of collapse, raising the prospect that "an increasingly desperate Assad regime" might turn to chemical weapons or that the banned weapons could fall into other hands.

will someone please kill this man already

if a chemical attack becomes a reality it will be yet another humanitarian blot on the west's record of inaction when their economies are not threatened and the greatest foreign policy failure of the Obama administration

[Salodin]

Wait, why are you blaming obama? This isn't Americas problem, its the UNs. If they need help doing it, give us a call, but we aren't obligated to take the forefront when there's an organization for that already.

[Andalusian girls]

i blame anyone who has the capacity to stop this violence but does not do so, as the man said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing

Al-Assad is the primary culprit, naturally, and after him follows China + Russia who are complicit in his crimes and blocked a U.N. intervention, after them, however, comes those who did nothing in the face of this evil.

40,000 dead and looking at a potentially imminent sarin gas attack in residential areas. the United States is uniquely situated to lead both the world and NATO in military action, uniquely equipped to intervene unilaterally should it come to it. in today's age of the imperial executive and Congress's habit of never declaring wars no matter how many wars we are fighting the decision not to is ultimately Obama's

it's Rwanda and Darfur and Yugoslavia all over again. threaten our petroleum or Israel and we'll be right there. come from a less fortuitous place and sorry, good luck! maybe we'll get around to you in a few years

i'm not saying we nation-build every warzone on earth but to stop a genocide is the finest and most moral reason anyone could ever have for foreign intervention

[Stumblingdrunk]

That is assuming that our engagement over there would just be accepted by Russia.

[Andalusian girls]

fuck Russia

[Salodin]

In mother russia, russia fucks you.

[kuronosan]

The UN is the body that needs to step up. You can't say America interferes too much and then get pissed when they don't interfere.

[Niiro]

You can't say America interferes too much and then get pissed when they don't interfere.

Reality would politely disagree.

[myreality]

I was just about to update but i see Andalusian Girls has already beaten me to it. Thanks

I also agree on the immediate intervention from the U.S. to capture and destroy these weapons. Screw Russia and China they willl not do shit. I'm afraid of the ripple affect this will have in the surrounding area's.

[mallister]

sad as it is, it's not like ME dictators using chemical weapons on their own people is some isolated unique event.

[ronin sparthos]

The UN is the body that needs to step up. You can't say America interferes too much and then get pissed when they don't interfere.

The UN isn't going to do shit along with the impotent Arab league. All talk, no action from both parties as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone pulls the trigger it'll be America and so the cycle will continue that we intervene in every mess the world can't get itself out of, Russia and China will sit quietly as we topple their dictator and we'll be blamed for the fate of Syria once the radicals rise to power and reassert their oppression upon the people. Slap on the label that we were preventing these stockpiles from hitting the black market and it'll be Libya II hopefully without the embassy attacks.

Who am I kidding.

Only question left here is if we let Syria play itself out in such a way that individuals on the ground die in droves and perhaps "learn something" or at the least direct their frustration at Russia and China for allowing Assad to unleash chemical weapons upon their people or play world police and spin the wheel of unintended outcomes and hope the populace doesn't thank us by burning American flags and condemning the West for waiting so long to topple Assad.

My money is on Obama ordering some 'splosions in the region now they're confirming publicly that Sarin gas is involved.

[Mazmaz]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...war-assad.html

U.S., Russia to meet on Syria
Hillary Clinton, Russian counterpart to meet in Dublin with UN peace envoy for Syria

The top U.S. and Russian diplomats will hold a surprise meeting Thursday with the United Nations' peace envoy for Syria, signalling fresh hopes of an international breakthrough to end the Arab country's 21-month civil war.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and mediator Lakhdar Brahimi will gather in Dublin on the sidelines of a human rights conference, a senior U.S. official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because she wasn't authorized to speak publicly on the matter. She provided few details about the unscheduled get-together.

The former Cold War foes have fought bitterly over how to address Syria's conflict, with Washington harshly criticizing Moscow of shielding its Arab ally. The Russians respond by accusing the U.S. of meddling by demanding the downfall of President Bashar Assad's regime and ultimately seeking an armed intervention such as the one last year against the late Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi.

But the gathering of the three key international figures suggests possible compromise in the offing. At the least, it confirms what officials describe as an easing of some of the acrimony that has raged between Moscow and Washington over the future of an ethnically diverse nation whose stability is seen as critical given its geographic position in between powder kegs Iraq, Lebanon and Israel.

The threat of Syria's government using some of its vast stockpiles of chemical weapons is also adding urgency to diplomatic efforts. Western governments have cited the rising danger of such a scenario this week, and officials say Russia, too, shares great concern on this point.

On Thursday, Syria's Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad accused the United States and Europe of using the issue of chemical weapons to justify a future military intervention against Syria. He warned that any such intervention would be "catastrophic."

In Ireland's capital, one idea that Brahimi could seek to resuscitate with U.S. and Russian support would be the political agreement strategy both countries agreed on in Geneva in June.

That plan demanded several steps by the Assad regime to de-escalate tensions and end the violence that activists say has killed more than 40,000 people since March 2011. It would then have required Syria's opposition and the regime to put forward candidates for a transitional government, with each side having the right to veto nominees proposed by the other.

If employed, the strategy would surely mean the end of more than four decades of an Assad family member at Syria's helm. The opposition has demanded Assad's departure and has rejected any talk of him staying in power. Yet it also would grant regime representatives the opportunity to block Sunni extremists and others in the opposition that they reject.

The transition plan never got off the ground this summer, partly because no pressure was applied to see it succeed by a deeply divided international community. Brahimi's predecessor, former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who drafted the plan, then resigned his post in frustration.

The United States blamed the collapse on Russia for vetoing a third resolution at the UN Security Council that would have applied world sanctions against Assad's government for failing to live by the deal's provisions.

Russia insisted that the Americans unfairly sought Assad's departure as a precondition and worried about opening the door to military action, even as Washington offered to include language in any UN resolution that would have expressly forbade outside armed intervention.

Should a plan similar to that one be proposed, the Obama administration is likely to insist anew that it be internationally enforceable — a step Moscow may still be reluctant to commit to.

In any case, the U.S. insists the tide of the war is turning definitively against Assad.

On Wednesday, the administration said several countries in the Middle East and elsewhere have informally offered to grant asylum to Assad and his family if they leave Syria.

The comments came a day after the United States and its 27 NATO allies agreed to send Patriot missiles to Turkey's southern border with Syria. The deployment, expected within weeks, is meant solely as a defensive measure against the cross-border mortar rounds from Syria that have killed five Turks, but still bring the alliance to the brink of involvement in the civil war.

The United States is also preparing to designate Jabhat al-Nusra, a Syrian rebel group with alleged ties to al-Qaeda, as a foreign terrorist organization in a step aimed at blunting the influence of extremists within the Syrian opposition, officials said Wednesday.

Word of the move came as the State Department announced Clinton will travel to the Mideast and North Africa next week for high-level meetings on the situation in Syria and broader counter-terrorism issues. She is likely then to recognize Syria's newly formed opposition coalition as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people, according to officials.

The political endorsement is designed to help unite the country against Assad and spur greater nonlethal and humanitarian assistance from the United States to the rebels.

[ringthree]

That is assuming that our engagement over there would just be accepted by Russia.

That's kind of the rub, Russia won't accept US action in Syria (if they ever do) until after chems are used.

It's a shitty situation. Assad is going to fall, either from the rebels or internal collapse. We can't really intervene unless certain redlines are passed. I wouldn't put it past Assad to use chems, and let the chips fall where they may.

In the US, there are so many opinions that unless those redlines are passed it will be very hard to do anything about the situation. War fatigue, Benghazi, hell there are people (in this thread even) that think it's another WMD conspiracy because they were burned so bad by Bush (even though it was factually established long ago that Syria has chems).