XIV 1.0's Failure is to Blame for SE's Lack of Good Games

[Jaxzer]

The PS3 is truly going to determine whether 2.0 becomes a riveting success or not because the MMO market is pretty niche in general. With all the PC resentment from 1.0 they're going to need a new, untapped audience.

[Correction]

The PS3 is truly going to determine whether 2.0 becomes a riveting success or not because the MMO market is pretty niche in general. With all the PC resentment from 1.0 they're going to need a new, untapped audience.

PS3 is in its final year of new software, so, er, yeah. Heh.

[Jaxzer]

2.0 will obviously have Orbis support.

[Esby]

SE will allways have its Ace up its sleve

it shit ever hits the fan "hey we gotta lay people off"

incoming
FF7 HD Remake with Advent children graphics would prob be enough to pull them out of the shit.

As much as i would rather have a FF9 remake... id eat 7 remake up in a heart beat.

I wouldn't.
A FFVII remake would mean that SE has run out of ideas and FF is dead.
As long as new, unique, FF titles like FFXII, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 keep coming I know SE is still alive.
I don't give a damn if they're not like the oldschool FFs, recent FFs are still top notch JRPGs and in fact the only good console JRPGs of this generation.

Besides am I the only one who thinks that a HD FF with the old ATB system would be incredibly retarded and embarassing to play?
In an age where free-roaming and real time battle systems are the norm, who in their right mind would waste HD graphics with slow-paced battle systems and random encounters? Might as well make an entirely new and fresh FF with those graphics.

As for FFXIV 2.0, I think it will flop. Disregarding the fact that I have absolutely no faith in SE after the disaster FFXIV 1.0 was, the MMORPG market is extremely unforgiving and SE doesn't have the skills to make a competitive MMORPG.
Any WoW clone is doomed to fail. The only way a MMORPG can be successful today is by introducing a completely new formula that makes WoW and all the current MMORPGs obsolete.
The lucky game that manages to pull that off will be the new WoW and the cycle will begin anew. FFXIV is definitely not going to be that game.

[Burningthought]

I wouldn't.
A FFVII remake would mean that SE has run out of ideas and FF is dead.
As long as new, unique, FF titles like FFXII, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 keep coming I know SE is still alive.
I don't give a damn if they're not like the oldschool FFs, recent FFs are still top notch JRPGs and in fact the only good console JRPGs of this generation.

Besides am I the only one who thinks that a HD FF with the old ATB system would be incredibly retarded and embarassing to play?
In an age where free-roaming and real time battle systems are the norm, who in their right mind would waste HD graphics with slow-paced battle systems and random encounters? Might as well make an entirely new and fresh FF with those graphics.

I think it worked pretty well with Lost Odyssey, but I have to agree, I don't think ATB has a place in current gen anymore.

[Correction]

Any WoW clone is doomed to fail.

yup

The only way a MMORPG can be successful today is by introducing a completely new formula that makes WoW and all the current MMORPGs obsolete.

Eh, no
You need a more realistic benchmark of success when making an MMO. The notion that such a game can have a AAA budget and beat WoW is a goddamn fantasy and folks with any kind of sense have known this since about 2005. It just took some companies like EA/Bioware longer to figure that out. FFXIV's real chance does lie in the PS3 install base, but unfortunately expensive, story-driven JRPGs are not having the best of years in the console space (contrast that with the relatively comfortable niche smaller publishers enjoy on handhelds). I wish them luck, because I hate to see the properties I do crave out of SE suffer because of this fucking millstone round their necks called FFXIV.

[Sephiroth]

Despite my username I'd have little interest in a FFVII remake if all they did was make the graphics HD. Sure I'd play through it once it but they'd be better off modernising it. Get rid of the outdated world map, introduce free roaming XII style with no random battles and make the battle system more modern and balanced. It would still be the same game, story, music, lore, sidequests, minigames etc. they'd just be making it the way they would have made it in 1997 if technology allowed. I'd rather they focused on new games rather than doing a simple HD remake. I'd call that more of a graphical update than a remake anyway. Problem is to do it the way I'd want it would take years, it would take the equivalent of making FFXV. A graphical update would be much easier.

2.0 will survive if they play their cards right in the beta. 1.0 sold something like 700k copies at launch and each of those are entitled to 2.0 for free. They all had high hopes for a new FF MMO and a large majority will give 2.0 another try because people aren't going to turn down a free game. Add to that the copies they sold since then who are also entitled to 2.0 for free, the PS3 playerbase who have been waiting for years and you've got a healthy playerbase at launch. But it all comes down to whether SE plays their cards right. Everything I've read about ARR so far suggests they are on the right track.

This kick up the ass with 1.0's failure may benefit the company in many ways and be seen as a turning point for the company. But you will never make the oldschool FF fanboys happy who think FF games should never have evolved past the old ATB battle system and unrealistic world maps. I'm normally against change myself but I saw the light with FFXII.

[ronin sparthos]

True. I just really want this to work. FFXI was an amazing experience, problems and all. I would love for 2.0 to be the "Next WoW" so to speak. I love the franchise.

One major problem I see is that SE doesn't have the kind of 1 to 1 relationship with their base that is crucial for any modern MMO to work. Sure, they've made inroads since FFXI but that isn't going to cut it when you're charging a monthly fee alongside MMOs that are pick up 'n play and more importantly free to play.

Yoshi has the right idea but he's only one man and for XIV to succeed they need to be on top of community concerns and balance issues ASAP. None of this months to fix something bullshit but a quick and reactive system that keeps people interested in playing and keeps XIV relevant for years to come. They seemed to have learned their lesson from the failings of XIV 1.0 but with how fickle customers are now with regards to what they play I would need to see something still not present at SE to arrive at the conclusion that FFXIV has the potential to be a genre defining experience at this point.

[Correction]

This kick up the ass with 1.0's failure may benefit the company in many ways and be seen as a turning point for the company.

I dunno man, people were saying that about FF13 and FF13-2.

[Tyrath]

If they "modernized" FF7 everyone would hate on it for not being the game that they played and loved. If they don't modernize it the other half of people will complain that it sucks and is too old and slow in gameplay. This is probably why a FF7 remake has never happened and may never happen. Even though as an old school fan I'd buy the shit out of it.

[Pirian]

If they "modernized" FF7 everyone would hate on it for not being the game that they played and loved. If they don't modernize it the other half of people will complain that it sucks and is too old and slow in gameplay. This is probably why a FF7 remake has never happened and may never happen. Even though as an old school fan I'd buy the shit out of it.

Sure, half would hate it and half would love it, but everyone would buy it

[Esby]

Sure, half would hate it and half would love it, but everyone would buy it

Doubt it.
Not everyone who played FFVII is into FF or JRPGs nowdays. In fact the whole genre has become a running joke lately because of how stagnant it is.
I'm not going to say that I'd never buy it because I'm a FF fan, but I seriously doubt I'd pay full price for it.

[Draylo]

FPS games are any different? They are the same shit they always were.

[Guitarman]

FPS games are any different? They are the same shit they always were.

I would argue that the FPS crowd are less difficult to please. You have the call of duty "bro" gamers keeping that genre afloat, whereas mmo players are more fickle overall.

One major problem I see is that SE doesn't have the kind of 1 to 1 relationship with their base that is crucial for any modern MMO to work. Sure, they've made inroads since FFXI but that isn't going to cut it when you're charging a monthly fee alongside MMOs that are pick up 'n play and more importantly free to play.

Yoshi has the right idea but he's only one man and for XIV to succeed they need to be on top of community concerns and balance issues ASAP. None of this months to fix something bullshit but a quick and reactive system that keeps people interested in playing and keeps XIV relevant for years to come. They seemed to have learned their lesson from the failings of XIV 1.0 but with how fickle customers are now with regards to what they play I would need to see something still not present at SE to arrive at the conclusion that FFXIV has the potential to be a genre defining experience at this point.

I wish I didn't, but I agree. I've seen no signs that SE has anywhere near the manpower to achieve any of that. I just hope Yoshi doesn't take the heat for this ship sinking, because I trust him to do the best he can.

[Kiarax]

I don't give a damn if they're not like the oldschool FFs, recent FFs are still top notch JRPGs and in fact the only good console JRPGs of this generation.

Have you just not played any other JRPGs this gen?

[Sephiroth]

I dunno man, people were saying that about FF13 and FF13-2.

FFXIII-2 is one of the best FF games in the series so I can see why that had no effect. XIII was flawed but it was still a great game, and neither of these games flopped in the way XIV V1 did. But my opinions on FF games are biased towards the modern era. Still, XIV V1 was the first failed FF title, something most people thought impossible before they went and did it.

[Fievel]

13-2 sold less copies than 13 though, which is what he's referring to I think.

[Cleverness]

And every one of those (that still have subscription) will go f2p except WoW. I really don't think it's been long enough yet that an MMO can sustain being subscription-based for more than two years.

Pretty much this, not many new MMOs can really come out nowadays and be successful with a monthly subscription model. The ones that still have it like FF11, EVE, WoW, etc are ones that have been out for a long time, where at least you have a long track record you can look at in terms of development/updates/support/etc and see if it's worth your money. That or you've already invested like 5+ years in 1 character/account so why not keep paying if you've played that long(this was the case with FF11 for awhile until we got some decent changes, then shit changes in Voidwatch). The market is drastically different nowadays than when these games came out, if you're gonna charge a subscription nowadays you better have content coming out the ass and quick resolution to issues because the casual gamer market has zero patience and will jump ship after the free month if they don't like it.

I wasn't surprised when 14 failed, despite alot of people in 11 telling me I was dumb and that it was gonna be great, it wasn't hard to notice lol. I've been getting updates on the games changes thanks to a mutual friend I have with Ksandra and it seems they decided to be smart and LISTEN to what players wanted, rather than push out what they thought was a good product and expect people to just take it like they did with 11 almost 10 years prior. The stigma of the failed launch will definitely hurt it at first, but alot of people started playing 11 at the peak of Abyssea because it was popular and welcoming to newbies as opposed to the old days with all the new stuff they've introduced(FoV and Abyssea xp parties removing the old party archetype allowing for more jobs to xp freely for example). If 14 can actually deliver a good experience with 2.0 then at the very least they can succeed with it in the same way they are succeeding with 11 and also how games like EVE can still succeed with a monthly subscription; capture a niche market and properly organize around it to get the most profit.

My main concern is that they release too many servers at the start, which will dwindle down after the first month like always and leave some servers sorta barren in comparison to others. Maybe taking the overflow server idea from GW2 would be the best way to avoid that, cause I know the server issue was a big deal in TOR before they did merges since many servers were lifeless after awhile.

[Ratatapa]

I don't think the problem is 1.0 necessarly (It did help but still)

I think my reason is once again the mobile departement, which gave birth to 'easy to play games' gamers aka angry birds farmville etc.

And they just see it's easier to take money from those since of all the 99c games.

Which makes real gamer mad, because game are made faster to accomodate those weaker 99c gamers.

Anyway that's my point of view in broken english

[Spira]

having gotten my hands on XIV 2.0's alpha and having a feel of it.. i am pretty confident that it won't flop the way 1.0 did.
there's definitely something right going on in SE as far as XIV is concerned.. and that should be more than enough to make up for the mess 1.0 made if they play their cards right.

As far as XIII and XIII-2 were concerned... XIII wasn't very much of a game changer, but it definitely sold well. i suppose at this point its important to note that success is typically measured by its commercial and critical reception.
XIII was very well received commercially. I believe it is the fastest selling FF game to date too.
It wasn't so well received critically tho.. it was pretty widely panned for linearity and the battle system which pretty much didn't give you much room to work with.

XIII-2 on the other hand was very well received critically. It is perhaps the best modern FF in this regard. (referring to PS3 era). Its sales figures were a lot lower, but by no means bad. Still a bestseller.. but of a lesser degree. And that was good enough for Square Enix.. for 2 reasons.
1) because they could use a lot of assets from XIII in XIII-2 and the development costs were greatly reduced, so it took a lot less to break even..
2) it was financially successful enough that they decided a part 3 would also be feasible.

it really wouldn't make sense if they went into a project knowing it'd cost more than it'd bring in.

XIV was both a commercial and critical failure.. because it was so bad that it couldn't warrant a monthly.. and that was what did it in. MMOs have a different way of paying themselves off.

XI was my first paying MMO... but back in the day.. it had something that drew me into the world the way it did and got me hooked. And of course it paid itself off pretty quickly.
XIV ARR has a similar effect on me.. which to me is a huge surprise since 1.0 had absolutely no effect on me (it was horrible anyway) and i've not taken the bait from recent MMO releases like GW2..

the trust was totally destroyed with 1.0.. but playing ARR has given me renewed confidence in the company.. and i'd gladly support XIV now even more than ever... I just hope that they'll pass the torch from XI to XIV. If XIV takes off well, they won't need XI to be pay to play (which at the moment is just scraping by with little content)