Friend in trouble - advice appreciated

[archibaldcrane]

Talk about whatever you like, just try not to embarrass yourself in the process. It makes threads bad and you should feel bad.

[Ksandra]

considering we tend to hit the nail on the head when it comes to relationships idkwtf archi is going on about.

[archibaldcrane]

yeah man, this girl shouldn't have waited so long to settle down, now she's stuck with an asshole

silly women thinking they do anything other than lose attractiveness as they get older, why don't they just marry at 19 when they are at their peak, since their looks are the thing that men care about

rawr macho men bang hot bitches get out of her you old hag alphas coming through this 32 year old bitch thinks she has a shot at an alpha silly bitch enjoy your abuser it's all you can get now that you're washed up, shouldn't have wasted your young tits

[archibaldcrane]

there, better?

[kuronosan]

Gross over-generalizations are running amok here.

What the fuck, BG.

[noblemountain]

Not to go off topic, but I am always amazed at the diversity of people on BG. When I was actually playing XI I was amazed at this as well.

[Churchill]

@Noble: That's something I'm always interested in wherever I go. Even thinking back to your days in battalion, can you imagine a more diverse group of people all possessing that similar personality trait? We had actors, lawyers, doctors, drug addicts, criminals, whatever.

@Everyone else: An old saying, "If you're getting flack, you're over the target."

[Lucienne]

I hope your friend comes to her senses and realizes that being treated like that is bad, and no matter how good whatever is keeping her there is, it isn't worth it.

Thanks, I hope so too.
He's black, if that answers the whatever is keeping her part.

@Everyone else: An old saying, "If you're getting flack, you're over the target."

Somethin, somethin, brightest crayon in the box.
You are off topic.
I am willing to assume here that everything you believe is true and no "high quality" man will date a woman in her 30's. Still, not all "low quality" men are abusive, plus there is no evidence that shows that women tend to get involved with abusive men more often the older they get. There are people here that could explain the reasons for why women end up in abusive relationships way better than me, but to be fair it would probably be a waste of time, so lets just stick to this one particular person that I happen to know and socialize with fairly often. If I claim, that her ability to attract men has not decreased significantly with age, I base my statement on facts and observation. She has no problems finding decent men to date. The problem isn't that she CAN'T GET a decent guy, the problem is she WON'T PICK a decent guy. So unless you can explain to me why that is, or tell me how I can help her, you should just shut up, because you're not contributing anything and you certainly are not entertaining.

[Churchill]

I am willing to assume here that everything you believe is true and no "high quality" man will date a woman in her 30's.

Yes, I do believe that. I don't base high quality on money, looks, success, endowment, whatever, alone though. There are plenty of examples of people who are those things but given a particular LTR would not be considered high quality by women.

Still, not all "low quality" men are abusive, plus there is no evidence that shows that women tend to get involved with abusive men more often the older they get.

No, not at all. Most low quality men are completely subservient/pedestal status the entire relationship experience. They exist to serve and validate women. "I'm lucky she settled for a guy like me" "She's such a catch" and other "soul mate" or true love no other woman could make me happy garbage. They've been conditioned to believe that by appealing to their 'feminine side' or becoming the things women say they want that this will in turn create them equity and garner them love, attention, sex. The opposite ends up happening. The guy your friend is dating is insecure as fuck for sure, but he's in a different class of men. He understands what is going on and he hates women for it and he hates men for it and the bitterness oozes from him.

There are people here that could explain the reasons for why women end up in abusive relationships way better than me, but to be fair it would probably be a waste of time, so lets just stick to this one particular person that I happen to know and socialize with fairly often.

I could too. It's because it makes them tingle and their learned observations associate abuse with attention. I'll caveat that women respond to playful and serious negative comments in earnest, and I think some women mistake a man at a point in their life to be the latter when he is actually abusive and wielding a power he doesn't know how to use.

If I claim, that her ability to attract men has not decreased significantly with age, I base my statement on facts and observation. She has no problems finding decent men to date.

The problem with this statement is that when you are 18-22, you have no problem finding men to fuck because you are in school.
When you are 23-27 you get even more attention because you're a decently attractive woman who just entered the workforce and older men (who women place a higher value on, and rightly so) give them attention as well (because they are younger).

From 28-34 you hit a few milestones as a woman, but men will still want to fuck you if you're attractive. No high quality man is going to want to LTR you at this point though because if he is then he understands that you are not unique and that a younger model would be a better fit. I mean, I honestly can't believe that this is a fact that needs to be stated or defended but that is the current state of fem-centric social constructs - 40 is the new 30 and men who date younger women are childish and afraid of a strong woman and being submissive in a relationship was for your grandma and that was only because your grandpa was a fucking raging misogynist. This is all rationalization hamster at work or shaming devices.

The problem isn't that she CAN'T GET a decent guy, the problem is she WON'T PICK a decent guy.

This is what shaddix was trying to get at, but didn't really nail the point home. I said it in less words, but here's the full explanation. You and your friend overestimate their actual beauty. Beautiful women don't make it to 30 single without ridiculous baggage attached from their childhood. These women are snatched up at 18-23. The girls that bloom late get snatched up at 25.

The rest of the women suffer as a result of their own imperative.

Let's assume your friend is/was decent looking, say an 8 when she was younger and now a 6-7. She's probably been with a man at some point who made her tingle like crazy and lose her shit trying to make him happy. He left her, but that memory lives on. Maybe she's dated many guys like that, you would have told her at the time that they were assholes. At 30, she's been tricked into believing she can still attract that type of man.

The fallacy is that what she is looking for doesn't exist, but instead of accepting her new status she is still seeking it out and as a result is with someone who probably exhibits some traits but not genuinely. Like I said before, the guy probably reeks of bitterness, but also probably has an attitude of not giving a fuck or apathy (which is being mistaken for aloofness). She is also likely mistaking control for dominance.

Another possibility is that she had no father or her father was a bitch controlled by her mother or her father exhibited poor traits that she attributes to being masculine. In any case she has no positive masculine example to compare men to.

So unless you can explain to me why that is, or tell me how I can help her, you should just shut up, because you're not contributing anything and you certainly are not entertaining.

I agree, the way our society raises men is appalling.


Should you get her away from him? If you want to, he's a bitch.

[archibaldcrane]

...

[Yugl]

All topics of discussion open, advanced astrophysics to genocide to gun control to financial success to weightlifting/fitness.

Except relationships, Archi draws the line there because nerds.

Well played.

[archibaldcrane]

I guess I just come at this from a different point of view.

I'm a good looking, smart, well educated guy with a good job.

You know who I wanted to date?

Good looking, smart, well-educated women with good jobs.

I get that it's a massive population self-selection, living in LA and working in entertainment, but I just don't see the dating field stratified in the way Church describes.

What 24 year olds do you know that meet the above qualifications? I sure don't know any. I guess I just don't roll with these women who derive 90% of their self worth from the dude banging them at the moment. I could see that being the case outside my cocoon i guess, if so, feel free to continue the world according to Churchill.

[Norrissnake]

Just tell her that you have feelings for her and want to explore them in a relationship.... Problem solved.

[Abandon]

gay

[chiyio]

I guess I just come at this from a different point of view.

I'm a good looking, smart, well educated guy with a good job.

You know who I wanted to date?

Good looking, smart, well-educated women with good jobs.

I get that it's a massive population self-selection, living in LA and working in entertainment, but I just don't see the dating field stratified in the way Church describes.

What 24 year olds do you know that meet the above qualifications? I sure don't know any. I guess I just don't roll with these women who derive 90% of their self worth from the dude banging them at the moment. I could see that being the case outside my cocoon i guess, if so, feel free to continue the world according to Churchill.

I'm better looking than you, but church has nailed it itt. Harsh reality

[Lucienne]

gay

It's not gay when it's two girls, silly. Then it's just hot.

@Churchill and Archi
I'll get back to you when I come home from work tonight, no time now.

[shaddix]

I guess I just come at this from a different point of view.

I'm a good looking, smart, well educated guy with a good job.

You know who I wanted to date?

Good looking, smart, well-educated women with good jobs.

All the other factors you're looking for in a female are pointless without the good looking part though, or at least I would hope? I'm not saying I would take a good looking idiot, just that the looks are a prerequisite. And the younger the better, because their looks will last much longer.

Personally, for a long term commitment(effectively marriage), I would much rather date an intelligent, hot, 20 year old with no education and a shitty job over an equally intelligent, equally hot, 30 year old with a masters degree pulling the upper end of five figures. A woman's professional accomplishments do very little to attract me, and I would expect this is the case for the majority of men.

[TheDangerousDave]

You know who I wanted to date?

Good looking, smart, well-educated women with good jobs.

You do so everyone else must right? I'm with the growing list of people that is in 100% agreement with Churchill's essay; while the guy probably does too,this girl has issues. To elaborate on what I was trying to say earlier because noone bit; if she knows he is volatile, why repeatedly ignore his calls until finally answering? If she's meant to be at work in the morning, why isn't she asleep to be prepared for it? It takes a very deluded mind to think that he's just some psycho that randomly gets aggressive. Shit like this would piss me and any other man off too, and it's the grandeur she thinks she has that makes her feel like it's fine to do this and if it annoys anyone it's entirely their fault. The same grandeur that makes her less attractive in comparison to a younger, easier, more submissive, more respectful and appreciative model.

If you think girls don't hit a brick wall post 25 I suggest you try this: Go to a dating website and search by age 18-18 and count the number of results, repeat for ages up to 25 and you will find there aren't so many girls. When you reach 26+ it absolutely BOOMS and a lot of them are even exceptionally attractive (physically) but they have baggage and are obviously (well, extremely highly likely) to not be viable partners if they've failed up to this point.

tl;dr
Talk about whatever you like, just try not to embarrass yourself in the process. It makes threads bad and you should feel bad.

[Abandon]

It's not gay when it's two girls, silly. Then it's just hot.

@Churchill and Archi
I'll get back to you when I come home from work tonight, no time now.

poidh

[Churchill]

I guess I just come at this from a different point of view.

I'm a good looking, smart, well educated guy with a good job.

I bolded the things you stated that are actually important to women, when they say anything else it's lip service. This sort of glosses over some things like short term and long term interest and what candidates appeal to a woman at different times. The first thing you have to realize is that it's not that you are good looking, smart, well educated, and have a good job that attracts women - it's that you are aware that who you are and what you are is enough to replace a given woman at any time. She is not your only option in the world, you and I have had this discussion privately in greater depth. Women will qualify themselves to a man they perceive to be of higher value because he is the 'catch'.

You know who I wanted to date?

Good looking, smart, well-educated women with good jobs.

Why? What is it you think about those women creates a better candidate for sex or relationships? From rich to poor and dumb to smart, women are not terribly different creatures in how they respond to stimuli. Environmental factors can move women in different directions but it's not a matter of not responding so much as it becomes a matter of what is too little or too much. If any factor moves me away from a woman it's that she is career oriented because I have a good feel for those types of women when working with them and I know the kind of self inflated value they have of themselves due to working in environments that are primarily male. Their attitudes are often very poor and not worth the effort.

I do agree that at this point in my life, it's nice to be able to actually talk to someone but it doesn't exclude options that exist simply to have sex.

I get that it's a massive population self-selection, living in LA and working in entertainment, but I just don't see the dating field stratified in the way Church describes.

What 24 year olds do you know that meet the above qualifications? I sure don't know any. I guess I just don't roll with these women who derive 90% of their self worth from the dude banging them at the moment. I could see that being the case outside my cocoon i guess, if so, feel free to continue the world according to Churchill.

I think the thing I'm always looking for is a 20-25 year old woman who is exceptionally mature for her age, and I've come across them often enough to know that they are not unique or my one and only or a mythological creature I need to lock down immediately. There will be new 20-25 year olds next year, and the year after that.

It is a great tragedy you resorted to shaming women at the 90% mark and stating that they derive their self worth from the man who fucks them. Ironically, the indoctrination that caused you to do this is based in the frame of the feminine - shaming like this is what women do to each other and to men that don't submit to their imperative. Women want to be submissive but not to a man who she doesn't respect and who doesn't command/deserve it. In the cases where you do not, she will be in charge.

Ask yourself if you know a man who has been through a divorce or was cheated on, whatever. Don't consider things such as if he was wealthy, successful, great looking, had a huge dick, whatever. Consider how he interacted with his wife and compare it to the generalization I made in my previous post.

Consider why in these types of situations that the woman will always leave for a man you and your friends consider an asshole. (Or much more wealthy, ie, better provider. The thing to remember here is that life doesn't ever become comfortable.) Is it that he's a dick, or that he gives her what your acquaintance could not - a relationship framed in the masculine imperative where she can and willingly submits? Is he a dick, or do you feel that because he is in charge or that he leads, he is a dick?

Think about your own relationships and consider why some of them went sour. Compare it to the example in my previous post. Younger relationships are especially volatile, the second you lose command over a situation could be the last second a woman respects you. Self reflection is a powerful tool. A good time period for this is especially your teenage years as women are often extremely overt in some of their messages.

People like this hide in long term relationships because the world is scary, and they can be controlling and weak like Lucienne's friend, or sweet and caring to where all the women he knows say "I can't believe she left you!" though they would have done the same thing and certainly don't consider fucking him.

Women can do this exercise with their relationships as well, but if any of you have ever dated a woman and still talked to her as "friends" then you also know she quickly has no recollection of the things your memory has held on to and doesn't particularly care to talk about any of them. tl;dr women won't do the exercise.