Worst FF main villain

[Charismatic]

Overcome by? How?

[Lucavi]

Cloud of Darkness. The whole concept was lame. I was debating going Ultimecia because time travel stupidity but decided against it because those early FF's had some stupid ideas as well. I also could have went to either Golbez or Exdeath because they always seemed to have their way until it was time for the obligatory old fart to sacrifice himself for the party or his own ideals.

[BerenTebogo]

Ultimecia = Rinoa. That's how I see it and I think that's an awesome thought so fuck you.

Voted Sephiroth. Everyone in SOLDIER seemingly knew they were experimented on to some degree so I don't buy the whole Frankenstein revelation bullshit. Sephiroth read some fucking books then went batshit thinking Jenova was his mother, and on top of that nobody in the fucking entire cast of FFVII has the common sense to tell him he wasn't.

I've always stood by the Ultimecia = Rinoa angle and I think it's awesome. It's part of why I think FF8 is top tier.

[ronin sparthos]

Exdeath.

Doing things for the hell of furthering evil does not a good villain make.

<3 FFV but jeez its the weakest entry on story of the "modern" (4+) FFs.

[samalis]

Sephiroth wasn't really the main villain of FFVII <.< Yeah, he's who everyone thinks about because of the black cloths, long hair, and big sword, but Jenova is the real villain. Besides the flashback, the singular cut-scene showing the Weapons waking up, and the final fight, all showings of him are Jenova. Hell, the only reason you even have to bother killing him is because of the Jenova cells in him.

But yeah, voting the first 3 FF's because they all just suck.

Late to thread but FF7 Ultimania confirmed that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova the whole time. Which is kind of retarded but what ever.

[miokomioko]

They could have maybe saved that by making up something about how the cells that were used in Sephiroth were very special ones of some sort and could thus exhibit control over the other inferior cell-infused clones (the reunion theory).

[Pirian]

Late to thread but FF7 Ultimania confirmed that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova the whole time. Which is kind of retarded but what ever.

Fuck that, like you said, it's retarded and furthermore is as bad as George Lukas going back and enhancing Star Wars.

[Tyrath]

Its really not. Jenova impersonating Sephiroth did everything she did to wake up the Sephiroth that was encased in mako at the promised land. Why would she need to wake him up if she was enacting a plan of her own? Based on the wiki, being submerged in the Lifestream is what enhanced Sephiroth's powers and allowed him to control Jenova cells as an extension of his own body since he couldn't move himself. Sephiroth was the mastermind behind his plan. He wanted to merge with the lifrestream and become a god. That much seemed clear to me just from playing FF7, without Ultimania's help.

[Spira]

I've always stood by the Ultimecia = Rinoa angle and I think it's awesome. It's part of why I think FF8 is top tier.

i too subscribe to the R=U theory. it certainly isn't by coincidence that Ultimecia is the exact opposite of Rinoa and that related symbols like wings and Griever are represented on both sides. the similarity in their thought processes and topics of discussion also cannot be dismissed. (final line in battle with Ultimecia, she talks about reflecting on your childhood.. like why would she bother? she could either be saying it for herself (as rinoa) or for squall's party, which has a similar effect)

my belief is that R=U was the angle that the original writer wanted to include, which was probably dismissed for being too radical because they wanted a fairytale ending and killing future Rinoa would seem.. i dunno.. crazy. which is why actual confirmation (in-game or otherwise) aside, everything else falls into place perfectly.
(edit note: iirc Sakaguchi dismissed this theory before.. but he was only exec producer and didn't write FFVIIIs story, so i doubt he would have known)

by the time dissidia rolls around I'm guessing they decided not to follow up with that angle (or simply weren't aware of it since they may not have been the original devs) and so ultimecia in that spin-off seemed to take a slightly different character slant.
but then again, it could be said to support the theory even further. Ultimecia's exclusive weapons in dissidia are all Rinoa's weapons (and she doesn't exactly use the same kind of projectile weapons). that and her line when she fights Squall is "Shall we dance?", which is (altho slightly different cos of translation) the 2nd line Rinoa says to Squall when she meets him.

[Niiro]

Its really not. Jenova impersonating Sephiroth did everything she did to wake up the Sephiroth that was encased in mako at the promised land. Why would she need to wake him up if she was enacting a plan of her own? Based on the wiki, being submerged in the Lifestream is what enhanced Sephiroth's powers and allowed him to control Jenova cells as an extension of his own body since he couldn't move himself. Sephiroth was the mastermind behind his plan. He wanted to merge with the lifrestream and become a god. That much seemed clear to me just from playing FF7, without Ultimania's help.

Considering the fact that Sephiroth's goal is the same thing Jenova's been doing for [unspecified large span of time] it's kind of moot to argue who's controlling who.

Actually, it's completely moot. From the point he falls into the lifestream and starts to manipulate the Jenova cells from the N.crater they're pretty much the same entity for all intents and purposes.

[Spira]

i see Sephiroth as a personification of Jenova.. because Jenoa is apparently alien and doesn't have a human form.

Advent Children seems to strengthen this position when Jenova 'prefers' to represent herself using Sephiroth for some reason.. or maybe by then they're the same thing.

[Niiro]

Jenova's essentially just a virus, Sephiroth may have his own personality and individuality to some degree but he's only Jenova's go-to because he's apparently the strongest/most compatible host (shaped by her cells since before birth) and all too willing to help perpetuate Jenova's life cycle.

It's more than likely Jenova has no conscious mind or personality, it has no "natural" form that we know of, we never hear it speak or think, it's just a planet eating virus that takes whatever form is most conducive to achieving that goal. Anything beyond that is just that will as interpreted by a host's mind (ie. Seph).

[Silenka]

Seph's not bad. Barth and Vayne are both good villians. Kuja and Sin were both terrible (voted for Kuja, but if Seymour was on there instead of Sin I would've voted for him, cause he somehow manages to be even creepier than Kuja). Shadow Lord was just meh, he never felt like a real villian to me so I'm not sure he even counts in my mind.

Do not understand why anyone would vote for Kefka as worst, he is pretty awesomely psycho.

[Spira]

i feel bad for Shadow Lord cos he never really gets the airtime he deserves from FFXI. i'm guessing back when they created the initial cutscenes, the devs didn't have the know-how to do storytelling and make fancy cutscenes the way they did for expansions like CoP and beyond.. and because of that alone, Shadow Lord pales in comparison..

that said, WotG does help to flesh out the Shadow Lord's character and story further.. in more ways than the original ever did imo. like the way he attacked the allied forces in Xarcabard, and his dealings with Lilth's army. he showed how cunning he was as the leader of the beastmen forces..
i definitely liked Shadow Lord and thought more of him as villian after WotG. Altho the Zilart bros kinda trample on him.. do bear in mind that they couldn't remove his threat themselves.. which goes to show that he might have been more powerful than he appeared (gameplay wise)

[Xno Kappa]

i too subscribe to the R=U theory. it certainly isn't by coincidence that Ultimecia is the exact opposite of Rinoa and that related symbols like wings and Griever are represented on both sides. the similarity in their thought processes and topics of discussion also cannot be dismissed. (final line in battle with Ultimecia, she talks about reflecting on your childhood.. like why would she bother? she could either be saying it for herself (as rinoa) or for squall's party, which has a similar effect)

my belief is that R=U was the angle that the original writer wanted to include, which was probably dismissed for being too radical because they wanted a fairytale ending and killing future Rinoa would seem.. i dunno.. crazy. which is why actual confirmation (in-game or otherwise) aside, everything else falls into place perfectly.
(edit note: iirc Sakaguchi dismissed this theory before.. but he was only exec producer and didn't write FFVIIIs story, so i doubt he would have known)

by the time dissidia rolls around I'm guessing they decided not to follow up with that angle (or simply weren't aware of it since they may not have been the original devs) and so ultimecia in that spin-off seemed to take a slightly different character slant.
but then again, it could be said to support the theory even further. Ultimecia's exclusive weapons in dissidia are all Rinoa's weapons (and she doesn't exactly use the same kind of projectile weapons). that and her line when she fights Squall is "Shall we dance?", which is (altho slightly different cos of translation) the 2nd line Rinoa says to Squall when she meets him.

Replayed FFVIII a few months ago and noticed Ultimecia's castle is also located at the very same place where Squall and Rinoa promised each other where they would be. There's just so many little hints throughout the game that points to R=U, it's retarded to completely disregard. I'm convinced the writers intended this, it adds a ridiculous depth to the story. FFVIII is indeed top tier.

[Charismatic]

awesomely psycho.

Oxymoron.

[mightyg]

Vayne Solidor and Barthandelus. Vayne simply had a weak presence throughout the game, wasn't all that threatening, and the whole reins of history back in the hands of man didn't really do it for me as far as motivations. Barthandelus looked stupid and the concept of the Fal'Cie was way too obscure and not particularly menacing.

[Koul]

Is there anywhere I can read up on FF12's original story direction or whatever... before the director left mid-way through? If it's even out there. I'm always curious what they had initially planned.

[Silenka]

Oxymoron.

Disagree. His craziness kept me entertained through the game. He was at times amusing and at times quite cruel. Some of the things he did were laughable and many were legitimately awful. He was a terrible person and that made him a great antagonist. What's awesome about his psychosis is that it made him into an interesting and believable villian.

[Elcura]

i too subscribe to the R=U theory. it certainly isn't by coincidence that Ultimecia is the exact opposite of Rinoa and that related symbols like wings and Griever are represented on both sides. the similarity in their thought processes and topics of discussion also cannot be dismissed. (final line in battle with Ultimecia, she talks about reflecting on your childhood.. like why would she bother? she could either be saying it for herself (as rinoa) or for squall's party, which has a similar effect)

my belief is that R=U was the angle that the original writer wanted to include, which was probably dismissed for being too radical because they wanted a fairytale ending and killing future Rinoa would seem.. i dunno.. crazy. which is why actual confirmation (in-game or otherwise) aside, everything else falls into place perfectly.
(edit note: iirc Sakaguchi dismissed this theory before.. but he was only exec producer and didn't write FFVIIIs story, so i doubt he would have known)

by the time dissidia rolls around I'm guessing they decided not to follow up with that angle (or simply weren't aware of it since they may not have been the original devs) and so ultimecia in that spin-off seemed to take a slightly different character slant.
but then again, it could be said to support the theory even further. Ultimecia's exclusive weapons in dissidia are all Rinoa's weapons (and she doesn't exactly use the same kind of projectile weapons). that and her line when she fights Squall is "Shall we dance?", which is (altho slightly different cos of translation) the 2nd line Rinoa says to Squall when she meets him.

The problem with this is well... two words.

Indoctrination Theory. Believe it if it makes your world a happier place.