Monster / Avatar / Pet damage

[dasva]

Cool, appreciate the insight as always.

Based on that, would be nice to know if we're capping PDT on pets like Tulfaire with only 37.5% gear reduction. Interesting.

Regarding snapweeds, I guess I made the classic mistake of trusting what SE said about those pets. My bad. ; ; Would like to see your testing when you're able to post it!

Thanks again.

Yeah would be awesome to effectively cap pdt against most monsters while still maintaining a good amount of pet haste even if only for 1 jug.

And yeah don't take SE at face value on mechanics. I corrected them after that post

[Falkirk]

Ah, so you did!

Do you know if Tulfaire takes increased damage from piercing like most avians? Or does it just seem to by comparison?

Edit: Nevermind, found where you posted the info! Cheers.

[Tarage]

Basically the simple way of comparing pet mab to bp dmg is to just multiply the total bp dmg to pet mab in each set. So let's say you had 40 bp dmg and 100 pet mab including innate bonuses that would be 1.4*2 = 2.8. Physical is a lot harder since we don't know as much about pet pdif and such

I'm sorry I don't understand the math. Where does the 1.4 come from? Or the 2 for that matter?

[Falkirk]

Got a friend with PLD and DRK to check Acuex with me in Sih Gates/PvP.

All your info regarding wild Acuex is great of course, and seems to align with what we saw on the Jug Pet version too. Used funguars as a neutral comparison.



For the funguars, 27 Weapon Bash damage normally, and then with Stout Servant it should deal ~24 damage before the PvP reduction.

And with Acuex, the -75% blunt appears to hold true, and if you add on Stout Servant for -84% the Bash damage should be ~4 before the PvP reduction which is minor enough in both cases to reduce the result by only 1.

Looks good?

[dasva]

I'm sorry I don't understand the math. Where does the 1.4 come from? Or the 2 for that matter?

Was for my example if you had +40 bp dmg then your bp multiplier is 1.4. If you had +100 mab your mab multiplier would be 20

[dasva]

Got a friend with PLD and DRK to check Acuex with me in Sih Gates/PvP.

All your info regarding wild Acuex is great of course, and seems to align with what we saw on the Jug Pet version too. Used funguars as a neutral comparison.



For the funguars, 27 Weapon Bash damage normally, and then with Stout Servant it should deal ~24 damage before the PvP reduction.

And with Acuex, the -75% blunt appears to hold true, and if you add on Stout Servant for -84% the Bash damage should be ~4 before the PvP reduction which is minor enough in both cases to reduce the result by only 1.

Looks good?

Was that a 99 drk with nothing +bash items or jp? If so it looks like I may have made some false assumptions and that maybe the pvp reduction doesn't apply to these like I know it does for magic dmg. Can you weapon bash the master real quick to see?

Regardless that pretty much confirms they are added together given just how extreme the reduction is it pretty much rules out the possibility of them being multiplied. Though I suppose to make extra sure you could see if you can get it below 3 with more pet dt/pt as that would only be possible with multiplying. Well this looks like it may save me a fair amount of time and allow me to test these easily.... shame saboteur was changed though have to use regular ones now. Great job and thank you

[Falkirk]

99 DRK, No Bash+ items or JPs, but didn't think to bash the Master. Will do that when possible!

[dasva]

Yeah poking the master has been the basis of a bit of my pvp testing. Like it's the only way for me to have gotten precise values for mdb since there was no way I could math it that would come out exactly the same (though could usually get within 2). Well if physical dmg isn't reduced the same then I'm gunna have fun meleeing my mules to make sure lol. Almost makes me wish I hadn't 119d the excal

[Falkirk]

Understood. :)

So here's Weapon Bash on me, (99 + 11 / 4 = 27) reduced slightly by PvP reduction.



And with Pet:PDT-63% (w/SS makes it Pet:PDT-72%):



87.5% DT- cap makes it 3 damage, then it gets reduced to 2 by the PvP penalty.

[dasva]

Well darn was really hoping there wasn't one for those. Well still looks small enough I can probably ignore if I do some rounding...

[The Assman]

So PUP Empy. pants just raise the skill caps? You have to actually raise the skills with them on in order for the Skill+ to have any effect?

[vivbiibasjiu]

So PUP Empy. pants just raise the skill caps? You have to actually raise the skills with them on in order for the Skill+ to have any effect?

That's just the same glitch that happened with the original pants, it's a display error and doesn't really mean anything from what I understand (the skill is still added normally) Happens with merits too

[dasva]

So some prelim jug defensive stat testing. Only tested the ones that could 119 and for time/money constraints on the jugs that had HQs I only tested the nq unless it had a non zero result in which I tested HQ as well and of course only tested HQ rabbit since nq doesn't go to 119. Also tested plasma crab if anyone was wondering.

For BDT test I used AAEV comparing Arrogance dmg between my bst and the pet and factoring stout servant. For mdt I use Assailer chariot in abyssea grauberg and it's discord move again comparing to my bst and the jug.

Bdt- With the exception of acuex none had bdt. Acuex (both nq and hq) had +100% bdt

mdt - with the exception of acuex and braveheroglen (frog) none had mdt. Acuex had +50%. Glen had -25%. Also should note that bubble curtain from the crabs gave them +50%

All of these were additive to stout servant so acuex for example took ~91% more arrogance dmg than my bst. In short Acuex is kind of horribad on anything non physical and no other pet worth using has native mdt/bdt

[Falkirk]

Jug Pet AoE Ranges

Wild Carrot - 10' from pet
Whirl Claws - 0-1820 TP: 15', 1820-2630 TP: 16', 2630-3000 TP: 17' from pet
Bubble Shower - 15' from monster
Fireball - 10' from monster
Tegmina Buffet - 6' from pet
Sheep Song - 0-1820 TP: 15', 1820-2630 TP: 16', 2630-3000 TP: 17' from pet
Cursed Sphere - 10' from monster
Roar - 10' from pet
Corrosive Ooze - 10' from pet
Noisome Powder - 10' from pet
Nepenthic Plunge - 10' from pet
Stink Bomb - 10' from pet
Spider Web - 10' from monster
Scream - 10' from pet

[dasva]

So has anyone noticed an increase in how much magic dmg jugs take sometime within the last few months?

[dasva]

So finally got to (re)testing more magic stats on mobs namely mbd and elemental sdts. If you don't care about test procedures and don't want the tl;dr various additional info just skip down to the numbers. If you don't understand come back up and read as it's probably something explained in these paragraphs. Also in case anyone wonders I didn't do the delve crab because my mules don't have it nor good test jobs/gear

Spoiler: show

First off all these tests were doing in Brenner so due to the weird dmg there would be some fudge factors which had to be accounted for in some way or another. For qd I used a cor with 117 swd 119 gun and a mismatch of agi/macc gear and only 20 mab to keep less variables in it. For helixes I used rdm/sch with 119 swd and a decent mix of int/macc gear which probably gave it decently more macc for the helixes than I had for the qd since I actively play blm. For jugs I called them at 119 though I had to bring them down to properly test some due to resistance but in the process learned ilvl doesn't effect sdt/mdb

First I tested SDT of 6 elements via quickdraw dmg comparisions than light/dark by comparing helixes to ones with other elements that I already eliminated from having sdts. I also shot other character to make sure I wasn't mistaking a lower dmg as a -sdt when it was really normal and the higher was +sdt and final check for that was the run wild test. Because of the Brenner dmg thing I basically had to assume all sdts were in the values I've heard them at so like -50% or -75% etc similar to resist traits and did best fits with the dmg I got. Where possibly I tried to force resists to not only doubly make sure I wasn't getting resists on the higher dmgs but also to see what 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th dmg looked like in Brenner. I only tested nqs because I really don't expect sdts to differ well even between species hence species taken dmg.

I tested mdb with quickdrawing both the jug pets and another character with known mdb values for most of them. For the ones with values that were lower than -25 mdb I had to approximate mainly because I didn't have a method of giving my other character that low of a mdb while maintaining test characters and such. I may redo it later since limited math shows there is potential for decent error in those (ie comparing 1 dmg to 0 mdb normal magic dmg formulas put it at -20 but it corresponded to actual -25. And the one that mathed out to -23 was in fact decently over -25). So while I'm 100% on the values of others and feel free to use them with various dmg calcs. The ones under -25 should only be used as a basic idea of how much more dmg they will take and how much riskier run wild is which is why I'm bothering posting them. Speaking of which as you will see with the exception of a few all negative mdb became more negative while the positive ones became more positive. This ended up being a sort of final test of if it wasn't just a - sdt and high mdb mimicking a +sdt and -mdb.

And without further ado the numbers. For sdts I will list them. If it isn't listed they didn't have them. For mdb I will list them as normal/run wild values. And in the case of jugs with hqs I only list the sdt once for the 2. Forgive the meh formatting' I'm sure Falkirk will make it sparkle when he finds it

Attentive Ibuki (tulfaire) +0/2 mdb. -50% fire/wind.
Swooping Zhivago +10/+15


Caring Kiyomaro (Raaz) - ~ -30/35 mdb. with zealous snort mdb -4/-5 mdb
Vivacious Vickie - -20/-22 mdb with snort +5/8 mdb


Warlike Patrick (lizard) - -10/-10 mdb


Rhyming Shizuna (sheep) - ~ -40/48 mdb


Amiable Roche (Jagil)- -75% water and rediculous resistance to water (approximately 90%+ resist rate even when delvld to 99). -20/-22 mdb.


Brainy Waluis (Funguar)- -50% water, dark .+8/+15 mdb


Hurler Percival (Beetle)- -10/-10 mdb


Generous Arthur (slug)- +30/+43 mdb. -50% water


Headbreaker Ken (damselfly)- +20/+20 mdb


Blackbeard Randy (tiger)- -10/-10 mdb


Threestar Lynn (ladybug)- -50% wind ~ -30/-35 mdb


Redolent Candi (snapweed)- -50% wind/thunder/dark. +20/+27 mdb
Alluring Honey +30/+43 mdb


Pondering peter (rabbit) -0/+2 mdb


Sunburst Malfilk (crabs) - 0/+2 mdb
Aged Angus- +10/+15 mdb


Scissorleg Xerin - -20/-22 mdb
Bouncing Bertha - -10/-10 mdb



Colibri Familiar (colibri) - -10/-10 mdb -50% wind
Choral Leera - -10/-10 mdb


Spider Familiar (spiders) -10/-10 mdb
Gussy Hachirobe - -10/-10 mdb


Brave Hero Glenn (frog) - ~ -40/-48 mdb -50% water/light and high resist to both


Sharpwit Hermes (mandy) - -10/-10 mdb



Acuex Familiar (acuex) - -10/-10 mdb -50% wind, earth, thunder, water (plus very high resist to water similar to jagil where even at 99 it was mostly 1/8 resist)
Fluffy Bredo - -10/-10 mdb



Now that the numbers are done with some take aways... I don't have the numbers anymore but I had started this testing a few months ago and almost every single jug I had tested (some weren't out yet and I didn't have my hands on hqs) had higher mdb values. Ie the negative ones were less negative some of the less negative ones were 0 and the positive ones were higher positive values.

You'll notice that outside Headbreaker Ken (damselfly) every run wild changed the mdb except for the ones that were -10. What makes this more interesting is those were the ones that a few months ago were all 0 and as such made sense that a run wild wouldn't change them if it was just a multiplier (like it is for other stats)... but now it seems they just set them lower or perhaps added some -10 mdb on the end of their mdb calc after run wild and whatever buffs/debuffs. This makes even more sense when you consider the ones that are now 0 going up to 2 with run wild as 0 times a multiplier should be 0 but if it was really say 10 then multiplied by the 1.2 like run wild does for other stats then given -10 the numbers work out perfect. (might be an interesting test giving the jugs a -mdb debuff maybe see if it goes below the -mdb cap).

And yes run wild really does make the negative mdb mobs take higher max qd dmg though regular nukes in real environments might be lower due to things resist and possible base stat changes (though I don't think rw does that).

Also some of the values are rather humourous. Like for example based on just this acuex sounds like it would be good against a lot of magic dmg but if you look up at my previous mdt testing you will see it takes +50% mdt so it's sdts are more like just countering the -mdb and +mdt values for some elements while other elements take much more dmg. Or how brave hero glenn has a ridiculous huge negative mdb completely countering the fact it is the only jug with -mdt lol.

At the writing of this it occurs to me that I'm actually not really sure how the sdt and mdts work together with jugs and I should of probably tested for that on the other hand given the Brenner adjustment it would make it somewhat hard to do. The reason I bring this up is because normally as I understand it sdts and dts multiplied together so like the -50% to earth acuex has would be multiplied with the +50% mdt to get overall -25% to earth magic dmg. However as Falkirk has shown for jugs at the very least physical sdts are instead added together. So would be interesting to see which way that goes here and for that matter how negatives and positives are added together if so.

Anyways if anyone can think of something I missed or needs clarification etc feel free to respond or send me a pm

[BerenTebogo]

Very good stuff, thanks for the work.

On Falkirk's FFXIAH bestiary he has the ilvl Funguar as being very resistant to dark. I read this to mean basically how the jagil is to water, is this not the case?

If it's only dark dt-% that kinda sucks.

Tangentially related, since it pertains to a possibly shitty idea I had for escha T3. Is "Death" darkness based and does resistance to "Death" go up with dark resistance? You can probably see where I'm going with this...

[Falkirk]

dasva! Awesome work, man.

Was sorta expecting some water sdt on the crabs, that's interesting.

And those mdb values... that poor sheep.

Thanks for all the effort, I bet it took a while!

[dasva]

Very good stuff, thanks for the work.

On Falkirk's FFXIAH bestiary he has the ilvl Funguar as being very resistant to dark. I read this to mean basically how the jagil is to water, is this not the case?

If it's only dark dt-% that kinda sucks.

Tangentially related, since it pertains to a possibly shitty idea I had for escha T3. Is "Death" darkness based and does resistance to "Death" go up with dark resistance? You can probably see where I'm going with this...

I didn't notice any resistance while testing though I wasn't specifically testing for resistance. Basically if I ran into problems being able to collect data due to resistance during the test I noted it if not I went on. It might have some resistance but I was gearing up the testing character for as much macc as I had on me so smaller amounts wouldn't be seen... but ones like jagil and acuex where I had to delvl to 99 and still took a couple dozen shots just to be certain I had gotten a full no resist were very apparent so I thought I'd note them. Or like brave hero who resisted a lot at 119 but was fairly easy to land at 99 so not quite as extreme but still noticeable.

As far funguar specific it might be due to old funguar or it's sdt looking like resistance since 50% sdt since it lowers dmg and debuff durations by that much not sure about magic hit rates on spells with single resist states though.

As far as Death goes I'm not sure... would make sense but I have yet to see much testing on death other than I think proc rates on certain resist death gear and due to recent warthare shenanigans have actually been thinking about some testing on it. Might be a job for run lol

[dasva]

dasva! Awesome work, man.

Was sorta expecting some water sdt on the crabs, that's interesting.

And those mdb values... that poor sheep.

Thanks for all the effort, I bet it took a while!

You'd think crabs do but even regular crabs don't for some reason. Though I think they did a long time ago.

Yeah poor sheep. Though hopefully they fix whatever they did and put the mdb back to what they were so sheep isn't as poor.

Yeah took a long time and during it I found out that apparently you can't talk on ls during Brenner. I was like what boring testing and I can't even chat whose bright idea was this!?! I do not look forward to physical dmg type testing lol. but that's a bit off since I want to get some jp first to make it easier/more accurate