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  1. #21
    Sea Torques
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    Carbuncle has 96 INT / 107 MND / 98 CHR. I first had to confirm that he has 20 MDB which is the case (and for the Light Spirit too) before letting myself get nuked as Whm.

  2. #22
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    I cannot make a similarly simple formula for Merit BPs, it seems. I can get it to work if I mess with the TP anchor points, but it isn't nearly as pretty (not even /256).

    PS. Test server is so ronery:

  3. #23
    New Spam Forum
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    I think monster/pet fSTR will cap at target vit +100.
    This is from my bst pet testing vs level 99 bluffalo and its likely the same as blue magic...
    if avatars have 108 str, they should be pretty close to capped vs most level 0 mobs, but I'm not sure how much vit the level 0 mobs have.
    I know there is 1 point difference between tiny mandragora and bumblebees... but dunno exactly how much it is.

    Also, I think the offset term might change after the player fstr caps.

  4. #24
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    Went out to test Claw vs. EM Bluffalo without Atma using the same gear as before.

    Claw - D*fTP = 144, non-crit pDIF [0.8056~1.2963]
    Melee hits - D = 47, non-crit pDIF [0.8085~1.2763] (old test)

    This makes it very likely that Blood Pacts do not get some kind of generic attack penalty and do follow the same pDIF formulas as normal melee hits. They are probably just Ratio capped at a lower cap.

    If fSTR is the only thing that changes between my two samples and fTP=1, then I can calculate the base damage I had in my Wild rabbit test and perhaps estimate the ratio cap
    Normal melee hits - D47 -> 73 when I move from EM Bluffalo to Wild Rabbits
    Claw - D144 + 26 = D170 when I move from EM Bluffalo to Wild Rabbits

    This gives me a non-crit pDIF range from 2.64 to 3.43 on Claw, which gives me a Crit pDIF range of 3.76~4.44. It seems very unlikely to me that the pDIF equations would generally be the same against EMs, but then randomly exceed the known cap (4) against TWs when the weird BP damage against TWs exists because SE specifically nerfed BP damage against TW. So fTP is probably not 1.

    If I pick 2 as the fTP, then adding 26 fSTR would increase base damage by 52 and bring me to 196 total. Then the pDIF range is 2.290~2.978, and the crit pDIF range is 3.265~3.848. That seems more reasonable. Claw damage is also approximately double the damage done by the off-hits on Predator Claws, which would indicate 2 fTP if they had the same base damage (like magic BPs). This is not proof of 2 as Claw's fTP, but it is a valid value for it as far as I can see.


    All pDIF maxes have the secondary randomizer removed already.

  5. #25
    Ridill
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    Well figured this could go here. Doing some testing on elemental spirits. Can't really pin down their recast time it seems really weird.

    But so far I've got that avatar bp dmg doesn't effect their spells but avatar mab does. And base 40 mab as expected.

    Also went around and figured out EM bluffalo to have an int of 68. Tried to use that to figure out ice spirit int but really weird stuff happened.

    Ice spirit consistently nuked for 1268 blizz v and 876 freeze with just atma of Purgatory (which is actually 25 not 20 int/vit) for a boost and 1303 and 946 when using atma of MM for blizz v and freeze respectively.

    Now for both the freezes back calculating I get 93 int. But back calculating the blizz V numbers well I can't get an exact value using floor and I get 62-63 int when using MM but 76-77 when using purgatory.

    This means blizz v formula works different for ice spirit. Now if I factor out MAB the dmgs would be 906 dmg with +25 int and 931 +50... which makes it look like it is using an M value of 1. Also decided to try again with no int boost and got 1233 which if you factor out is 881... so definitely looks like M of 1.

    Now if we assume the V value isn't also messed up that means ice spirit int is 120 which seems inordinately high. If we assume the int I derived from the freezes is right it would mean the V value is 856.

    Anyways gunna check other elements soon.

  6. #26
    Ridill
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    Ok did earth spirit this time no buffs 877 quake 957 stone v. The quake dmg using the normal quake formula gives 93int again. But using the normal stone v formula I get 93-94 again not coming down to a whole number.

    Ok went again with +25 int. got 947 and 992. Normal quake formula and int continue to work out. int not even close. Looks like once again the T5 spell has messed up M of 1 and messed up V value of 659

  7. #27
    Sea Torques
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    Using my own method with Twilight Torque + Lieutenant's Sash I confirm 93 INT as well, 70 MND and 75 CHR for the Elemental Spirits.

    Vs Wild Rabbit
    Naked Blm with 93 INT and no merit
    Freeze : 980
    Tornado : 1016
    Quake : 1051
    Burst : 1087
    Flood : 1125
    Flare : 1163

    Stone V : 1156
    Water V : 1232
    Aero V : 1311
    Fire V : 1379
    Blizzard V : 1440
    Thunder V : 1503

    Elemental Spirits :
    Freeze : 980
    Tornado : 1016
    Quake : 1051
    Burst : 1087
    Flood : 1125
    Flare : 1163

    Stone V : 1044
    Water V : 1110
    Aero V : 1178
    Fire V : 1248
    Blizzard V : 1320
    Thunder V : 1394

    They messed up on everything.

  8. #28
    Ridill
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    Out of curiousity how did you actually get them to nuke the wabbits? Mine always melee them to death way before then lol. And that's sporting almost 500 skill and af2+2 legs

  9. #29
    Sea Torques
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    You have to call your Elemental Spirit, wait 25 seconds and pull the Rabbit with a non damaging spell. Also you don't need 500 skill to cap on the recast, it's somewhere around 450~460 skill.

  10. #30
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tachi View Post
    You have to call your Elemental Spirit, wait 25 seconds and pull the Rabbit with a non damaging spell. Also you don't need 500 skill to cap on the recast, it's somewhere around 450~460 skill.
    ah yeah I'm having troubling finding much good info on there recast time. And I'm having a hard time figuring it out since everytime I look it seems to range by about 4-5 seconds. Ah yeah forgot about initial cast. Though in my expericiene it's almost always a debuff. Well that's good to know. Was wondering why my recast wasn't lowering as much as I thought it would after gaining more skill. Can you point in me in the direction of info about that?

  11. #31
    Sea Torques
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    Casting Time = 48 + (max Summoning Skill - current Summoning Skill) / 3

    If Spirit is cast on corresponding day: -3 seconds
    If Spirit is cast on weak day: +3 seconds
    If Spirit is cast during corresponding weather: -2 seconds
    If Spirit is cast during weak weather: +2 seconds
    If using Summoner's Spats: -5 seconds
    If using Astral Flow: -5 seconds
    Light Spirit in healing mode or buffing mode: 1/2 Casting Time

    This might have changed at 99.
    The way I use to trigger big spells is stack as much skill + gear, summon and wait for timer, then i would pull with something that does damage or is high hate like stun/flash or dia/stone. When you aggro or attack something the spirits go into protect mode and will tend to cast things that'll pull hate away from the summoner. At least this has been my experience. When you use assault the cast timer is instantly reset so if it starts casting something long like freeze you can actually use assault right away and by the time it finishes the timer will be up again though this wont work on level 1 mobs ;p

  12. #32
    Ridill
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    Oh yeah I saw that on old wiki but the formula doesn't seem to quite work out. I mean using it you should be able to get cast time down to zero since it doesn't list a cap. But looks like that wont happen considering how much I have now and I'm still at like 22-26 seconds. Still no idea why it keeps varying so much

  13. #33
    Sea Torques
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    hmm not sure, I thought that cap was 15sec but not sure

  14. #34
    Sea Torques
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    25 seconds with AF2+2 legs is the minimum recast but the first spell takes only 12~13 seconds to start if you don't use Assault. Astral Flow, the day of the week and the weather have no effect at this point.

  15. #35
    Ridill
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    So much for trying to find a way to abuse spirits. Gimped nukes and lame recast times. Wonder if that's a bug too. Also something fun I found out they can run out of mp and then can't cast lol

  16. #36
    Nidhogg
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    It makes sense in some ways. I suppose SE did it that way since the spells Spirits use don't come from the Summoner's MP pool thus they're 'free' in that you only pay their perp cost which could potentially be a lot less than the 250-400 MP that a Tier 5 nuke or AM cost, also it would kind of devalue PUP and BLM somewhat if Spirits had full powered nukes virtually for free, albeit unpredictably but also hate-free in addition to the wide repetoire of things like Perfect Defense, Hastega, Predclaws, etc...

  17. #37
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    Sorry, not really new data but some analysis on the melee hits I collected against level 99 Bluffalo with level 99 Celestial Avatars when I was making the fSTR graph:

    The X-axis is Ratio increase. So we know the Bluffalo's defense and I know the amount of attack I added, so I can calculate how much I increased Ratio by without knowing my Avatar's attack (Attack Boost / Bluffalo Defense).
    The Y-axis is pDIF with the secondary randomizer divided out.

    These generally have sample sizes too small to be confident that I'm seeing the max/min (something around ~150 hits per pair of points). However, you can see the general trend and for some reason the lower bound seems much more stable than the upper bound. I've fit a line to the lower bound and you can see that the slope is 0.82, which is lower than the slope of player pDIF. I did not include the line in the above graph, but if I fit a line to the upper limit (R=0.96), the slope is 1.22.


    This implies that monster pDIF decreases slower below 1.0 than above it. Though I've questioned it in the past, it is possible that this function may have a non-0 floor. For instance, when I tested Killer's Kilij's potency last night in East Saru, monsters in the north end of the zone were hitting me frequently for 1 damage despite the fact that I was a 99 BLU and they should know their place. When I put on Twilight Torque, this dropped to 0 damage (rounding). This implies that my VIT isn't 0-ing their base damage (perhaps they have a negative cap) and pDIF isn't frequently 0-ing them out either.

    Overall, though, I'd say this is a little evidence for the idea that monsters have a fairly different set of pDIF curves from players. They probably function the same way (and can be mapped using Motenten's model), but I'd be surprised if the equations use the same constants.

  18. #38
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    Over a year ago, a local PUP (Theytak/Jinte) spent a considerable amount of time on the Test Server using the ranged Automaton to investigate Automaton base damage. If I remember correctly, we were waiting for a model that made sense before we released the results. However, after over a year of not finding one I think it's best to just put it out there.

    Probably the take-aways
    1) STR has a large effect on Auto Ranged Attack damage (~0.75 modifier) until it caps.
    2) DEX also has an effect on Auto Ranged Attack damage (~50% DEX Mod).
    3) Ranged Skill has an effect on Auto Ranged Attack Damage
    4) They've changed some of the Automaton Ranged Attack Damage formulas in the last year. Though it likely still follows the same equations with something small tweaked, if you repeated the below conditions you wouldn't get exactly the same results.

    Table 1) Level 99 Automaton
    Spoiler: show
    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="384"><colgroup><col style="width:48pt" span="6" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt;width:48pt" height="20" width="64">Skill</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">STR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">DEX</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">Damage</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No fSTR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No DEX?</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">437</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">285</td> <td align="right">212</td> <td align="right">156</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">427</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">279</td> <td align="right">206</td> <td align="right">150</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">255</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">99</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">261</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">100</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">261</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">107</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">113</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">114</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">115</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">116</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">258</td> <td align="right">192</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">99</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">264</td> <td align="right">192</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">265</td> <td align="right">192</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">265</td> <td align="right">192</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">259</td> <td align="right">193</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">100</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">265</td> <td align="right">193</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">150</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">107</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">150</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">150</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">109</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">116</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">126</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">194</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">109</td> <td align="right">268</td> <td align="right">195</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">110</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">99</td> <td align="right">110</td> <td align="right">268</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">111</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">112</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">99</td> <td align="right">112</td> <td align="right">268</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">100</td> <td align="right">112</td> <td align="right">268</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">113</td> <td align="right">270</td> <td align="right">197</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">114</td> <td align="right">270</td> <td align="right">197</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">116</td> <td align="right">270</td> <td align="right">197</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">117</td> <td align="right">264</td> <td align="right">198</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">117</td> <td align="right">271</td> <td align="right">198</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">118</td> <td align="right">264</td> <td align="right">198</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">119</td> <td align="right">264</td> <td align="right">198</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">265</td> <td align="right">199</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">200</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">121</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">200</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">122</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">200</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">123</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">200</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">124</td> <td align="right">274</td> <td align="right">201</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">125</td> <td align="right">274</td> <td align="right">201</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">127</td> <td align="right">276</td> <td align="right">203</td> <td align="right">149</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">128</td> <td align="right">276</td> <td align="right">203</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">129</td> <td align="right">276</td> <td align="right">203</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">277</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">277</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">131</td> <td align="right">277</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">132</td> <td align="right">277</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">417</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">133</td> <td align="right">277</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">147</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">4</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">2</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">1</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">127</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">1</td> <td align="right">113</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">127</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">0</td> <td align="right">92</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> </tbody></table>


    "Damage" is with the 3.0 pDIF removed. The "No fSTR" and "No DEX?" Columns will be explained presently.

    Now, looking at the data you can see that the effects of STR on base damage cap out between 100 and 106 STR (upper bolded patch). So I went back to get some more data using a lower level Automaton so that STR would be uncapped:

    Table 2) Level 59 Automaton
    Spoiler: show

    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="384"><colgroup><col style="width:48pt" span="6" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt;width:48pt" height="20" width="64">Skill</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">STR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">DEX</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">Damage</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No fSTR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No DEX?</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">141</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">60</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">145</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">64</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">148</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">148</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">68</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">150</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">151</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">70</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">151</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">153</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">142</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">76</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">142</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">75</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">70</td> <td align="right">145</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">145</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">145</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">76</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">74</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">77</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">198</td> <td align="right">56</td> <td align="right">76</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">76</td> </tr> </tbody></table>


    This time it was possible to see the full effects of STR. Typical ranged fSTR didn't describe this, especially not the weird 2-point jumps that were sometimes seen (bolded). So at this point we know that the effect of STR caps, which means that it's not a simple WSC modifier. Rather than invent some new formula, I just checked to see if Ranged attacks used both fSTR and fSTR2. That's what the "No fSTR" column is, and it matches pretty well. I went back and applied it to the Level 99 data set too to make that column. I assumed 3 things when I implemented this:
    1) fSTR1 has a cap of 24 (could be floor(level/4) )
    2) fSTR2 has a cap of 49 (weird for fSTR2, but could be floor(level/2) )
    3) Wild Rabbit VIT is 7

    Now, it does not match perfectly. If you look at the lower bolded patch in Table 1, you'll see that damage increases with increasing STR when you use a different DEX value. I cannot currently explain this, but I can say that my attempts to implement a model with fSTR2 and a DEX/STR combined-then-floored modifier term have been unsuccessful.

    Ignoring that weirdness, if I plot DEX against the "No fSTR" value, I get this graph:


    That coefficient is approximately a 50% DEX mod. This is subtracted in the "No DEX?" Column including a different Alpha for the different levels.

    The Skill difference is approximately 1 point every 3 levels, but is not exactly that because I didn't gain any base damage going between 0 and 4 skill.

  19. #39
    Theory Fighter
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    Frejan Schultz
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    The one that did the tests was Theytak/Jinte, I don't have access to the test server.

  20. #40
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    Okay, thanks!

    Just for future testing reasons, does anyone have any idea how we got up to +27 Stat? I can see how we could get up to +24, but not +27.

    Also, I think I just hit upon a method that will let me figure out the DEX/STR relationship. If you activate an Automaton and then don't deactivate before you warp, when you return it is the same level as when you left. On the test server, you can change your job level in town. Apart from allowing me to rule out Puppetmaster Level as a factor, I can get more Stat values on my level 59 Automaton.

    It could have:
    Stat+4
    Stat+5
    Stat+6
    Stat+7

    Stat+8
    Stat+9
    Stat+10
    Stat+11
    Stat+12
    Stat+13
    Stat+14
    Stat+15
    Stat+16
    Stat+17
    Stat+18
    Stat+19
    Stat+20
    Stat+21
    Stat+22
    Stat+23
    Stat+24


    If I can't figure out the equation with that much data, I might as well give up.

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