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  1. #81
    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Edit: Yeah
    I know that screenshot is post update damage, but am I just missing something with Flaming Crush? I've seen screenshots of it doing crazy damage but I've never seen it go that high myself. What sort of gear are people using for it do such high damage?

  2. #82
    Bagel
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    Pet mabb gear!

  3. #83
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    Flaming Crush, at least in my hands, would start breaking even with magic BPs against anything higher than ~level 100. The 13k damage is well above what I would have expected against a Shaggy Ovim (one of the highest level mobs available atm).

  4. #84
    Cerberus
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    Is Flaming Crush purely physical? Or does MAB help it too? Better yet, what gear do you use for Flaming Crush?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistrianna View Post
    Is Flaming Crush purely physical? Or does MAB help it too?
    Hybrid. And yes, MAB helps it greatly.

    To steal Byrth's formula, it's something like this.

    Hybrid WS damage = ( (Weapon Damage + fSTR + WSC) + (Weapon Damage + fSTR + WSC)*fTP*MAB ) * pDIF

  6. #86
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    For Flaming Crush, to do a little more testing:
    Spoiler: show
    Melee:
    Normal Hits: 528 - 554
    Crit Hits: 572 - 592

    No Sachet (Flaming Crush):
    No Crit: 4415, 4418, 4430, 4434, 4438, 4445, 4452, 4456, 4463, 4508, 4522, 4526, 4530, 4532, 4540, 4558, 4566, 4568, 4587, 4602, 4606, 4621, 4622
    Crit: 4792, 4964, 4965, 4991
    First hit misses: 757, 757, 759

    Eminent Sachet (Flaming Crush):
    No Crit: 5684, 5691, 5751, 5757, 5781, 5789, 5814, 5837, 5868, 5890, 5902, 5919
    Crit: 6108, 6156, 6320, 6362


    Melee:
    D132 (528/4, 554/4.2) :: Same as Garuda

    No Sachet Flaming Crush:
    Because I got lucky and missed a few first hits, some cool analysis is possible here. Assuming that I did not crit 3 times the three times I missed and assuming additional hits on BPs are 1 fTP, the range of possible first-hit fTPs is 5.83 - 6.09 fTP. I'm going to guess it's 6.0, which gives a base damage range of 184 (4415/6/4) to . . . 184 (4622/6/4.2). This means Flaming Crush gets a 52 base damage boost over melee hits (probably from WSC).

    Sachet Flaming Crush:
    Sachet Flaming Crush, using same 6 fTP estimate), gives 235~236 (6108/1.08/4/6) base damage. This extra 52-51 base damage is likely due to the extra 77 STR and any other stat. That's 19 or 20 fSTR, which would leave another 32ish for modifier (50% stat mod).



    I will note that the range for physical Avatar BPs is no longer capped, it seems. If you compare to this post, you'll notice that my last two posts have damage ranges within 5% of each other, indicating that pDIF is capped (probably to 4.0) and we're only seeing the secondary randomizer. So SE basically reversed the old nerf at some point (perhaps this past patch). Also, Flaming Crush appears to have less first-hit fTP than Predator Claws (to the surprise of approximately no one).




    This gives Flaming Crush a combined fTP of 14, with Predator Claws having an fTP of 10. The question is now "why was Flaming Crush worse than Predator Claws ever?" I've noticed that I get damage between 5k and 14k (even on first-swing hits) against hard enemies. It is possible that the additional effect isn't very accurate at all?

  7. #87
    Chram
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    Additional effect being the fire dmg portion?

  8. #88
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    could it have lower attack than pred claws?

  9. #89
    Cerberus
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    The added effect does appear to be very inaccurate, or maybe I was just missing hits vs higher level targets. In Yorcia vs Saplings and Snapweeds dmg settled around 5.8k with an occasional spike to 7-8k. In Ceizak Battlegrounds vs Luckybugs dmg was very consistent from 10-16k.

  10. #90
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    I spent some more time with it the other day, and I think the 10k+ ones were just first-hit crits. Avatars are super attack starved against most targets, so critting almost doubles their damage against hard mobs. Because hybrid WSs share the same pDIF between the physical and magical portion, doubling the damage of the first hit essentially doubles the damage of the WS.

  11. #91
    Cerberus
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    Since Flaming Crush is hybrid, would this affect any gear choices such as using Auspex gages and Ngen Seraweels or would I be better off with Hagnodes hands/pants with pet mab? I'm pretty sure Caller's Spats +2 wouldn't affect damage as it does not consume TP when you Flaming Crush.

  12. #92
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    Depends on how much MAB and BP damage you have.

    Plug your MAB and BP damage into (6*(100+MAB)/100 +8)*(1+BP damage%/100) and see which combinations end up higher.

    Assuming say, 220 Avatar MAB before hands pants and 10% BP damage, you end up with 29.92. Add 20 mab hag pants and that goes to 31.24. Instead add 5% BP damage and that goes to 31.28, so Ngen Seraweels are slightly better with those stats, but as you can see that it's very close and is going to depend on your gear.

  13. #93
    Ridill
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    That's how you would do it on pure magic dmg ones. But being a hybrid mab will only effect part of the dmg while theoretically (not sure if it's been tested) bp dmg would effect the whole thing. Not sure if the multiplier to get base magic part....

    iirc most hybrid ws use a 1.0 multiplier for 300% so if we use that then we can factor in how much of a dmg increase the mab adds. For example if we had 0 mab and added one that would only result in a .5% increase in dmg while if it was pure magic it would be 1%. If you started with +200 mab a 1 mab increase for this would be .25% increase in dmg while if it was pure magic it would be .33% so makes a difference

  14. #94
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    I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, but Byrth tested that Flaming Crush is 1 6 fTP physical hit + 2 x 1 fTP physical hit + 1 6 fTP magical hit.

    Thus it's 6 parts magical and 8 parts physical, which is where the 6 and the 8 come from in the formula I posted above.

  15. #95
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    Isn't it a 3 hit attack? How can it be one 6.0 fTP hit, two 1.0 fTP hits and one 6.0 fTP magical hit?

  16. #96
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foldypaws View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, but Byrth tested that Flaming Crush is 1 6 fTP physical hit + 2 x 1 fTP physical hit + 1 6 fTP magical hit.

    Thus it's 6 parts magical and 8 parts physical, which is where the 6 and the 8 come from in the formula I posted above.
    Ah I misread it. Thought you were doing invidivual peice conparisons and that's where the numbers come from. Disregard

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Isn't it a 3 hit attack? How can it be one 6.0 fTP hit, two 1.0 fTP hits and one 6.0 fTP magical hit?
    It's a three hit attack, but the first hit is hybrid, so the first hit is "two hits" one physical, one magical. + the two extra hits.

  18. #98
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    I totally forgot it actually has extra hits... has it ever been tested if bp dmg works on all hits of a multihit bp? Only ask because since ws dmg doesn't and they are similar.

  19. #99
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    I guess this really fits better here, so here we go. Hopefully this doesn't turn into an unformatted mess when I hit post. Either way, I don't have time to fix it so sorry in advance.

    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="448"><colgroup><col style="width:48pt" span="7" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt;width:48pt" height="20" width="64">
    </td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">
    </td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">Base</td> <td style="width:48pt" align="right" width="64">0</td> <td style="width:48pt" align="right" width="64">1</td> <td style="width:48pt" align="right" width="64">2</td> <td style="width:48pt" align="right" width="64">3</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Tension Spring</td> <td>Attack</td> <td align="right">300</td> <td align="right">306</td> <td align="right">317</td> <td align="right">330</td> <td align="right">341</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>Ratk</td> <td align="right">440</td> <td align="right">449</td> <td align="right">464</td> <td align="right">481</td> <td align="right">494</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Tension Spring 2</td> <td>Attack</td> <td align="right">300</td> <td align="right">314</td> <td align="right">325</td> <td align="right">337</td> <td align="right">349</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>RAtk</td> <td align="right">440</td> <td align="right">460</td> <td align="right">475</td> <td align="right">490</td> <td align="right">506</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Accellerator</td> <td>Evasion</td> <td align="right">459</td> <td align="right">464</td> <td align="right">473</td> <td align="right">481</td> <td align="right">490</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Accellerator II</td> <td>Evasion</td> <td align="right">459</td> <td align="right">469</td> <td align="right">478</td> <td align="right">486</td> <td align="right">495</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Scope</td> <td>Ranged Accuracy</td> <td align="right">354</td> <td align="right">369</td> <td align="right">383</td> <td align="right">396</td> <td align="right">410</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Stabilizer</td> <td>Accuracy</td> <td align="right">249</td> <td align="right">254</td> <td align="right">262</td> <td align="right">271</td> <td align="right">279</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Stabilizer II</td> <td>Accuracy</td> <td align="right">249</td> <td align="right">259</td> <td align="right">267</td> <td align="right">276</td> <td align="right">284</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td colspan="2" style="height:15.0pt;mso-ignore:colspan" height="20">Alternator</td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td colspan="2" style="mso-ignore:colspan">Maneuvers</td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>Base</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">3</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Tension Spring</td> <td>Attack</td> <td align="right">567</td> <td align="right">578</td> <td align="right">595</td> <td align="right">614</td> <td align="right">630</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>Ratk</td> <td align="right">719</td> <td align="right">734</td> <td align="right">755</td> <td align="right">777</td> <td align="right">796</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Tension Spring 2</td> <td>Attack</td> <td align="right">567</td> <td align="right">591</td> <td align="right">608</td> <td align="right">626</td> <td align="right">643</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">
    </td> <td>RAtk</td> <td align="right">719</td> <td align="right">750</td> <td align="right">771</td> <td align="right">792</td> <td align="right">813</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Accellerator</td> <td>Evasion</td> <td align="right">695</td> <td align="right">701</td> <td align="right">711</td> <td align="right">720</td> <td align="right">730</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Accellerator II</td> <td>Evasion</td> <td align="right">695</td> <td align="right">706</td> <td align="right">716</td> <td align="right">725</td> <td align="right">735</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Scope</td> <td>Ranged Accuracy</td> <td align="right">578</td> <td align="right">595</td> <td align="right">611</td> <td align="right">625</td> <td align="right">641</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Stabilizer</td> <td>Accuracy</td> <td align="right">462</td> <td align="right">467</td> <td align="right">476</td> <td align="right">486</td> <td align="right">495</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Stabilizer II</td> <td>Accuracy</td> <td align="right">462</td> <td align="right">473</td> <td align="right">482</td> <td align="right">492</td> <td align="right">500</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    The idea of setting the stats up like this was so that I could tell the difference between static boosts and multipliers. The results were not really expected. It looks like Automatons might have some innate % boosts to things like Evasion and Accuracy, which I was almost certain would be static boosts. Perhaps this is based on head/body combination.

  20. #100
    Sea Torques
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    Level 121
    Celestial : 849 ACC, 893 ATK, 712 EVA, 708 DEF
    Carbuncle : 820 ACC, 791 ATK, 679 EVA, 705 DEF
    Fenrir : 849 ACC, 1161 ATK, 712 EVA, 708 DEF
    Diabolos : 849 ACC, 893 ATK, 712 EVA, 918 DEF
    Spirit : 819 ACC, 780 ATK, 675 EVA, 694 DEF
    Light Spirit : 810 ACC, 785 ATK, 669 EVA, 694 DEF
    Odin : 819 ACC, 850 ATK, 715 EVA, 741 DEF

    Astral Staff : DEF+10
    Breeder set : DEF+10 ENM+5
    Evoker's Gages : ATK+10
    Koschei Crackows : ATK+5, DEF+10

    Diamond Storm : -25 EVA
    Somnolence / Tail Whip (Gravity) : -10 EVA

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