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  1. #381
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    I don't follow all the logic but what you've described is exactly what I would have expected.

    Side note: How did you get 3000 Armor Shatterer samples in 9500 hits? You're WSing every 3 hits?

  2. #382
    Ridill
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    It's more shocking because as someone who was using rng autos daily it was pretty noticeable when it happened and i think I was asking people if they saw it too. But well not many people dd with autos and most seem to valoredge right now.

    As far as wsing companion's roll.

    on a related note do you know what base stats effect melee base dmg?

  3. #383
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    If you're talking about the automaton, I assume STR and maybe DEX. IIRC the automaton ranged attack base damage is affected by DEX.

  4. #384
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I mean technically in the exact wording sort of. But acc/racc and att/ratt go together for pets even when not specifically stated according to SE. Also while I never bothered to parse it the whole reason I did now was because miss rate dropped noticeably after the monster skill update already suggesting that the cap update update did in fact put it at 99%. Plus given other massive flaws it's pretty easy to assume it's overlooked

    Jugs get a bit harder to really guess at though since a lot of the mobs are war type and a lot of ready sets include some amount of DA
    My pets have parsed higher than 99% on 10min fights before, so the cap is definitely not 95% for melee acc for bst jugs at least. The only r.acc affected ready that I know of is Leaf Dagger and I don't use mandys, so I can't say what cap on that is from personal experience. From the wording of that update notice, it sounds like they just applied the same buff to main hand weapons to pets..

  5. #385
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    If you're talking about the automaton, I assume STR and maybe DEX. IIRC the automaton ranged attack base damage is affected by DEX.
    Ranged yes dex does though agi adds even more and was more useful in testing just because not a ws stat mod. Was thinking of testing the melee ws too to see if they are messed up

  6. #386
    Ridill
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    All right some ws testing. For all these will be using full merited/jpd pup with animator P+1 and ambuscade back and then a bunch of gear that wont effect dmg until I switch to pet agi gear gear only the maneuvers need to force the ws (or in flameholders case for the attachment) and sharpshot/sharpshot. I'll be comparing changes created by adding 50 pet agi in ranged dmg to ranged ws dmg under capped pdif fstr dmg neutral target situation as the only difference between the 2 should be ftp. Because autos are annoying as fuck to force ws at certain tps only doing 3k values for the ones modified by tp.

    Dev note ftp .25, 1, 1.75, and 2.5 for flameholder at 0, 1,2 and 3 maneuvers respectively

    Arcuballista: 1-3 fire maneuver to force/for flameholder. Dev note ftp 13.0 for arcuballista
    Ranged dmg: 1551
    +50 agi dmg: 1665

    without flameholder

    ws dmg: 15912
    +50 agi dmg: 16887

    with flameholder
    1 Maneuver
    ws dmg: 17136
    +50 agi dmg: 18186

    2 Maneuver
    ws dmg: 18054
    +50 agi dmg: 19158

    3 Maneuver
    ws dmg: 18972
    +50 agi dmg: 20133

    Armor Shatterer: no maneuver. Dev note ftp 6.0
    Ranged dmg: 1551
    +50 agi dmg: 1665

    without flameholder
    ws dmg: 6966
    +50 agi dmg: 7416

    with flameholder
    ws dmg: 7254
    +50 agi dmg: 7725

    Armor peircer: 1 dark maneuver to force. Dev note ftp 7.0
    Ranged dmg: 1551
    +50 agi dmg: 1665

    ws dmg: 8568
    +50 agi dmg: 9093

    Daze: 1 thunder maneuver. Dev note ftp 11.0
    Ranged dmg: 1560
    +50 agi dmg: 1674

    ws dmg: 13596
    +50 agi dmg: 14421


    +50 agi gave +114 dmg to ranged dmg regardless of initial dmg. Given capped pdif of 3 that comes out to about 76% agi goes to base dmg. For the daze test base dmg the thunder maneuver added 9 dex and increased dmg by 9 so base dmg by 3. Hard to get good conversion values with such small amount added but clearly much smaller than agi.

    Increases in dmg for ws are as follows

    Arcuballista:
    without flameholder - 975 ~8.55 ftp

    With flameholder
    1 Maneuver - 1050 ~9.21 ftp
    2 Maneuver - 1104 ~9.68 ftp
    3 Maneuver - 1161 ~ 10.18

    Armor Shatterer:
    without flameholder - 450 ~ftp 3.95
    with flameholder - 471 ~ ftp 4.13

    Armor peircer: 525 ~ftp 4.61

    Daze: 825 ~ ftp 7.23

    So every last one of these including the flameholder amounts was pretty much exactly only 2/3s of the values they gave us. Pretty huge discrepancy since given their numbers they should be doing 50% more dmg... plus these ftp values end up coming out weird. Only other thing I could think of that did is somehow the ws have a different pdif multiplier but the dmgs gotten make that seem unlikely

  7. #387
    Ridill
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    Similar test as above except added +60 dex between shots. The 50% mod ones were kind of close to the point the discrepancy looks like it could just be the level correction factor but daze on the other hand well


    Daze: 1 thunder maneuver. Dev note 100% dex mod
    Ranged dmg: 1560
    +60 Dex dmg: 1641

    ws dmg: 13596
    +60 dex dmg: 14784

    81 increase to ranged attack so base dmg went up 27. WSD went up 1188 using the 7.23 ftp and 3 pdif that puts the ws base dmg going up by only 54 putting the increase from wsc at 27.7 or about 46% which ends up being exactly the same as what the 50% mod ones are doing so looks like that stat mod is broke too. Also of note how +60 dex barely increases wsd more than +50 agi was despite the ws being dex modded.

    In another way to look at is the 1641 should be 547 base ranged dmg so if we added the 276 dex at 100% mod and multiply by pdif and the given 11.0 ftp then it should've been doing 27159 dmg instead of that 14784. Nearly double what it is doing.

  8. #388
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    My pets have parsed higher than 99% on 10min fights before, so the cap is definitely not 95% for melee acc for bst jugs at least. The only r.acc affected ready that I know of is Leaf Dagger and I don't use mandys, so I can't say what cap on that is from personal experience. From the wording of that update notice, it sounds like they just applied the same buff to main hand weapons to pets..
    Totally missed this before but you kind of missed the entire point I made about non test condition parses not being the best for jugs unless you meant the melee acc by itself or you went thru afterwards and counted the low ready dmgs as misses. Namely a lot of the pets are war type and most physical ready include a bit of DA so even assuming it only can proc once 95% acc per hit with 50 DA would result in 97.375% acc for move though pretty sure it's been tested to be up to 2 procs if so then would be 98.6% acc. And that's just single hits of course and really can crank more DA into it if you were going all out and not using a max (though can still be high) acc set. That said just from experience I'd tend to agree. Just because of how few low dmgs I see on single hits or how when I crank my autos DA rate to 100% with capped pdif on mob that doesn't have varying dmg multipliers I don't think I've ever seen a bonecrusher do so little dmg that it is indicative of multiple hits missing and it's incredibly rare to see the dmg that indicates even 1 hit missed which with 95% acc would actually be fairly common

  9. #389
    Ridill
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    So ah something seems a bit weird with pets. Was trying to figure out some stuff with subtle blow and pets. Went to Diorama to get a base line since wasn't too sure on that 1/3 thing and looks like the hittee gets more like ~28.5% of what the attacker got not counting subtle blow and store tp stuff. Then starting to test pets and seems some have a lot of hidden subtle blow even non mnk ones.

    Right now numbers for tp received to give are:

    Voracious Vickie: 75/10. Looks like full capped 50 also no change with +5 pet subtle blow
    Suspicious Alice: 68/9. Looks like full capped 50 also no change with +5 pet subtle blow
    Fleet Reinhard: 85/16. Looks like ~33 subtle blow goes down to 15 with +5 which comes out to about 37.5
    Bouncy Bertha: 75/14 Looks like ~33 subtle blow goes down to 13 with +5 which comes out to about 38.
    Acuex Familiar: 75/14 Looks like ~33 subtle blow goes down to 13 with +5 which comes out to about 38.
    Mosquito Familiar: 44/7 Looks like ~42 subtle blow but no change with +5 so thinking just weird rounding and maybe was capped.

    Not sure how much further I want to go into this. Lots of random jugs are just capped on subtle blow while others still have a ton. And my main reason was wanting to see if pets had different caps and that's clearly a no so trying to do a pet subtle blow build seems even more useless

    Also the dagi factor doesn't go crap in there guess since neither of us are mobs

  10. #390
    Ridill
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    So looking at Falkirk's data over on the ah with mobs at 3k tp and some of my own with mobs at 100 seems Tp Drainkiss drains a set percentage of the mobs tp based on effective tp. With it draining ~63% at effective 1540 pet tp (ie the lowest you can get with maxed jps due to jps and fencer). 2140 (so lowest +af3+2 hands) draining ~78%, 2340 ~83%. And 3k draining 100%

    This could be an alternative to mewing lullaby but mostly interested because it's a way of determining mob tp that doesn't involve charm.

  11. #391
    Ridill
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    So given the resist findings and given how these are generally mob/family traits thought I'd repost them here for 119able pets families. Now this was done on regular mobs so not 100% but a bit has already been known/verified and again things mostly stick to families. Leaving the ones absorb blank because it's 100% SE doesn't leave those in and mostly looks like they made them somewhat resistant but unsure how much. Taking out mdb because already know that does weird stuff.

    Leaving out Avatars because of the huge variance between regular trial (which definitely seems wrong compared to ours) and the HTBF ones which seem closer but idk and no one really tries keep them alive anyways.

    The inconsistencies I know of will probably get investigated... evenutally


    Automaton
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 115% Impaction 115% Transfixion 115%
    Induration 115% Scission 115% Reverberation 115% Compression 115%

    Rabbit
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 130% Impaction 150% Transfixion 115%
    Induration 115% Scission 115% Reverberation 150% Compression 150%

    Crab
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 130% Impaction 150% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 150% Scission 130% Reverberation 70% Contraction 130%


    Lizard
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 150% Impaction 100% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 150% Scission 100% Reverberation 130% Contraction 130%

    Chapuli
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 70% Impaction 130% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 130% Scission 70% Reverberation 130% Compression 70%

    Sheep
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 130% Impaction 150% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 100% Scission 130% Reverberation 150% Contraction 130%

    Tulfaire
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 50% Detonation 50% Impaction 70% Transfixion 70%
    Induration 130% Scission 130% Reverberation 70% Compression 70%

    Pugil
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 130% Impaction 150% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 150% Scission 130% Reverberation 30% Contraction 130%

    This one actually seems to somewhat contradict my old testing I was getting bigger reductions and crazier resist so might have to go back and check. Maybe I just didn't have as overwhelming of macc as I thought or maybe this is a difference


    Funguar Honestly not sure if the jug is the regular or bronze so just using regulars numbers
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 130% Impaction 130% Transfixion 150%
    Induration 130% Scission 130% Reverberation 50% Compression 50%

    Eft
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 70% Impaction 115% Transfixion 115%
    Induration 130% Scission 70% Reverberation 70% Compression 115%

    Fly
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 100% Impaction 130% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 150% Scission 100% Reverberation 130% Contraction 130%

    Snapweed
    Magical Damage - 25%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 50% Impaction 50% Transfixion 70%
    Induration 130% Scission 70% Reverberation 60% Compression 50%

    Another possible slight error. Don't remember getting mdt with the testing and they show the eschan one having +mdt. Also remember this one having extra high mdb while the mob version doesn't have any

    Raaz
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 130% Detonation 115% Impaction 115% Transfixion 115%
    Induration 70% Scission 115% Reverberation 115% Compression 70%

    Diremite
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 115% Impaction 115% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 115% Scission 115% Reverberation 150% Compression 60%

    Beetle
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 100% Impaction 100% Transfixion 150%
    Induration 150% Scission 100% Reverberation 100% Compression 100%

    Tiger
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 150% Detonation 100% Impaction 150% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 100% Scission 100% Reverberation 130% Compression 100%

    Not an error but just noting holy heck is there a diff between this and Smilodon subspecies. Almost every element is 1 tier more resistant with 1 being the same and the other being 2 more.

    Raptor
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 130% Impaction 130% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 100% Scission 130% Reverberation 150% Compression 130%

    Colibri
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 30% Impaction 115% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 130% Scission 100% Reverberation 115% Contraction 130%

    Spider
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 100% Impaction 115% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 150% Scission 100% Reverberation 115% Compression 100%


    Antlion
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 130% Impaction 100% Transfixion 150%
    Induration 100% Scission 60% Reverberation 100% Compression 60%

    Apkallu
    Magical Damage - 25%
    Liquefaction 85% Detonation 115% Impaction 130% Transfixion 115%
    Induration 85% Scission 115% Reverberation 40% Compression 115%

    Ladybug
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 30% Impaction 100% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 130% Scission 70% Reverberation 100% Compression 100%

    Slug
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 100% Impaction 115% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 115% Scission 100% Reverberation ??? Compression 100%

    Frog
    Magical Damage - 25%
    Liquefaction 100% Detonation 100% Impaction 115% Transfixion 30%
    Induration 70% Scission 85% Reverberation 20% Compression 100%

    already noted it being fairly resistant to light and water earlier but this is the first 20% we've seen in a jug which is pretty damn resistant probably

    Mandragora
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 150% Detonation 150% Impaction 150% Transfixion 100%
    Induration 150% Scission 100% Reverberation 100% Compression 150%

    Again Lycopodium subspecies way more resistant to everything

    Acuex
    Magical damage + 0% (fire ice light dark + 50% climate (not sure what climate is. wind I guess? only other option is earth) thunder water - 25%)
    Liquefaction 150% Detonation 100% Impaction 100% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 100% Scission 60% Reverberation 40% Compression 100%

    Honestly don't remember on this one so might have to retest


    Mosquito
    Magical Damage + 0%
    Liquefaction 115% Detonation 60% Impaction 130% Transfixion 130%
    Induration 130% Scission 100% Reverberation 85% Compression 50%

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