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  1. #201
    It's all dicks and airplanes
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    so how isn't this pay to win again? lol

  2. #202
    Sea Torques
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    TBH, none of that seems substantially pay to win until we have a better idea what's in the Lum shop. Even then, I think the primary purpose of the Lum shop was for PvE tokens and gem break protections.

  3. #203
    My Little Ixion
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    The issue is that people who are subscribers basically get a free day's worth of rewards every 5 days.

  4. #204
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    The issue is that people who are subscribers basically get a free day's worth of rewards every 5 days.
    Not certain I understand though. Plenty of games have similar XP, Gold type bonuses and are not considered p2w. XP is only good to cap. It depends on what you can do with gold that gives it any value(could be worthless like FFXIV). Additional farmable goods for crafting is generally pretty whatever in the long term. Really the only reward is Lum, which, if it's similar bonuses like the prior with maybe gem protections it's not P2W. P2W implies that there is a significant 'Power' advantage that requires cash to close the gap(Ex. Paid outfits giving you +500 stat over someone). Crying P2W when someone gets something faster than you is pretty silly and at best is a quickly depreciating P2W 'advantage' as people catch up.

  5. #205
    Impossiblu
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    You're missing the most major part of the entire thing, +20% dungeon (honor) points. That's what Fiye is referring to (presumably). You can only do 5 dungeons a day. That 20% extra gives a subscriber 1 extra dungeon run worth of currency per day. You can try to say that isn't a lot but it most certainly is, especially in a competitive game. After a week that subscriber vs. a non-subscriber got 7 extra dungeons worth of currency.

  6. #206
    Sea Torques
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    Does the gear improve the more times you do that dungeon? I'm not familiar enough with their systems. If it's the same pieces, but you get it 20% faster then in a month out it seems pretty negligible as everyone starts running around with the same set. If you can close the gap by putting in some extra time that's not P2W(be it grinding or lockout timer). If that armor became better every time you ran the dungeon such that a player couldn't feasibly catch up due to a power difference, yea, that'd be pretty P2W.

    Are there any daily dungeon point caps as well? Something like XIV where the cap is 450 you just might have to do one less dungeon a day because of the bonus? I'm not at all familiar with the JP RU versions of the game.

    I think I read somewhere about dungeon reset scrolls. Are those a thing? are they coming to NA?

  7. #207

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    I had high hopes for this shit lol

  8. #208
    Formerly BGTemp // TERA Fan
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    You're kidding yourself if you think the current meta in MMORPGs is anything other than a subscription + cash shop. Sure, "subscription" is gone from the term but the concept is the same "value", "premium" and other such adjectives are just used in its place.

  9. #209
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    "Games as a service."
    "Player choice."

  10. #210
    Relic Horn
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    Unless you steal it, so you can actually own it, most everything online now is "as a service". I don't see the P2W aspect, but it means different things to different people; I also just don't see the game as worth a buy regardless.

  11. #211

    I'd think XI players would be among the first to recognize why being any amount of time ahead of competition is a good thing for both controlling and manipulating the server landscape. Figure 1 hardcore player for every 20 normal/casuals, that 20% advantage and then some will just multiply more and more as the weeks go by. And I'd argue such scenarios get worse when PvP is involved. It may not be as obvious as "Buy this elite sword and vanquish your enemies!" kind of P2W, but it's still the coercive sort where you must absolutely buy in if you actually care about being meaningful in the endgame.

    That said, I'll just passively hope the game crashes and burns. Shit like (P2W) subs, forced online for single-player games, not owning what we buy, overpriced DLC, lootboxes, lockouts, XBL/PSN subs for multiplayer capability, intrusive anti-piracy measures, games launching incomplete/buggy, failing to police their online environments, shitty remakes/ports, and so on are all trends gamers should be striving more to resist because all this extra money harvested from our wallets doesn't really seem to be doing our games any good.

  12. #212
    Smells like Onions
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    Game isn't p2w, at least no more p2w than something like ffxiv.

    Price isn't a big deal imo, if you're playing these games you're going to be putting a mass of hours into them so you're getting your monies worth.

  13. #213

    That's the kind of justification that lets them get away with it all, man. You should want better.

  14. #214
    Sea Torques
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    Not really, it's the kind of justification that realizes that a company has a product to sell and it's easier to sell when you can sweeten the pot with long term pointless stuff. It's an extended form of getting that pre-order weapon with 45 DMG only to get a new weapon at level 3 that has 100DMG. Sure you had an advantage in the opening but it doesn't really matter after some time has passed.

  15. #215
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Tell that to Archeage.

  16. #216
    Impossiblu
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    Sure, I guess if we assume they'll never add new dungeons or new gear to the game, that +20% extra currency won't matter in the long run. :D

  17. #217
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Sure, I guess if we assume they'll never add new dungeons or new gear to the game, that +20% extra currency won't matter in the long run. :D
    Not if their major update schedule is every 3 months. Additionally, it looks like dungeon gear can be traded or placed on the market per their forum? Markets are price controlled so it seems like you could probably gear out easily enough even with +20% currency. Sounds like alts would be more useful for feeding dungeon gear and drops rather than the currency bonus.

  18. #218
    BG Staff
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    Well today is the day

  19. #219
    Sea Torques
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    if it make anyone feel better, the game isn't going to fail because of "P2W", instead it will probably crash because of really bad optimization lol.

  20. #220
    2600klub
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hioki View Post
    if it make anyone feel better, the game isn't going to fail because of "P2W", instead it will probably crash because of really bad optimization lol.
    It's DX9, it suffers the same problems every DX9 mmo has suffered.
    Namely shitty FPS around big groups of people.

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