Beta Test Emails Now Released

[Nullibicity]

1.0 was updated fairly often once yoshi took over, and this is while they were making 2.0 and content for 1.0 at the same time.

[Kohan]

Anet updates every month, it's not always new dungeons, new content, but bug fixes and the previous do come out every month. If Anet who is absolutely terrible and works without a subscription fee can do it, then it's acceptable to expect the same service from a game you are paying for.

No, not when they don't have the same kind of capital (which they don't). I'll elaborate upon this below.

If you'd like to take offense for calling people who play XI dumb (especially for the WoTG and post Heroes timeframes) in the face of such a sustained lack of attention to the game and complete abandon ship they did with the number of developers, that's your call.

I understand that you'd like to label this as blind defense of FFXI, FFXIV, or Square Enix, as that's easier than finding facts to back up your angry opinion with—not that you would find any. However, I would say the same thing in relation to any modern and relatively unsuccessful MMO, like "Aion," or whatever the failed flavor of the month may be.

The point is this: what you're describing is not feasible in the industry for the vast majority of companies producing content within it. ArenaNet is an awful example for you to make, as they and Square Enix are in entirely different boats. ANet had a model that enabled them to make enough money, which they could then invest in future content. Beyond the amount of copies that their games sold, and continue to sell, they are otherwise profitable enough—without a monthly subscription fee, but due to the aformentioned sales, plus digital items—to warrant such maintenance. This is how they planned things from the beginning, and they planned them well.

Comparatively, FFXI was released in 2003, excluding the earlier Japanese releases. Digital delivery wasn't a thing, and F2P or elements of it couldn't have hoped to be practical, not to mention adopted; subscriptions were the standard; incremental- and content-related patches were expected every few months, hardly overnight; and the list goes on. Today, things have changed. People expect faster service, and that's reasonable. Expecting what is literally beyond a company's capabilities to produce is not.

If this means that you'll take your dollars elsewhere, that's fine. That will not make the company release patches faster, though—not even to try to keep you—because it is impossible. Titles that don't have userbases numbering in the millions cannot produce the same amount of content. Development and maintenance costs in the modern industry are far too high. This is why you're either incredibly successful at the start, and never noticeably slow down (WoW), or come out big and taper off (SWTOR, DCU, and practically everyone else). Coincidentally, FFXI has one of the most well-maintained userbases, given how old it is, but we'll not head off on that track.

As for all of the money that was spent on SWTOR's development, it is irrelevant. You may think that it isn't, but due to the high initial sales, EA already made the majority of their initial investment back. They required about $5 per subscriber to do so, and that was quickly accomplished. The money lost afterward was in relation to: ongoing development costs; ongoing server maintenance costs; players growing uninterested in the endgame (what little of it there was); and every other little thing that the average consumer doesn't think about, all the way down to the janitor emptying their garbage bins and cleaning their desks.

[Kohan]

Double-posts are the bane of my existence.

[Nadrojj]

Bleh, just ignore Churchill, he's not worth your time.

I believe I read somewhere that EA spent over 80 million on the voice acting in the game alone. I played it for the first two months before I hit max level and was completely geared. Then it was log in to play huttball for a few hours to get my 7 wins and fly around illum for another hour. Boring.

[Ezek]

Goddamn it, this game is such a cocktease. AFK for months since I didn't have a legacy account.

[Waraji]

Bleh, just ignore Churchill, he's not worth your time.

I believe I read somewhere that EA spent over 80 million on the voice acting in the game alone. I played it for the first two months before I hit max level and was completely geared. Then it was log in to play huttball for a few hours to get my 7 wins and fly around illum for another hour. Boring.

Both Church and Kohan bring up good points.

[Madeline]

In the event you're Legacy and didn't get your invite:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...093#post970093

[arus2001]

I think it's more appropriate to say a middle ground needs to be found between models of yesteryear and, well, I guess the future. If shit's too expensive to make, then it perhaps behooves future developers to find ways to do so more cheaply and efficiently. On the user end, yeah it may mean a quality hit on graphics or something, but I also think the community is sick of games that, while looking good, run like absolute ass in high density areas. The concept some subscribe to that some people should just get a kickass top-of-the-line PC every couple years is pretty asinine, but it makes you wonder if some devs out there anticipate people to actually do this when making their titles.

That said, when/if efficiency improves, tapping into the potential of user generated content will be a goldmine if a future game out there gets it right. I look to Rift and Dimensions and see such a concept in its infancy, but as little more than basically custom "house" building with minor environmental manipulation, its appeal is limited. When people can actually start building dungeons or custom quest hubs/story locations, though? You'll start to see creativity that would probably rival or even exceed the dev's vision. Though, such systems also need to be user friendly, which probably means using pre-defined mobs/AIs with maybe some wiggle room for flavor/difficulty. Even without tapping into users, actual randomization feels relatively scarce in MMOs. Yes, yes, RNG for loot, but I'm talking more akin to Nyzul or Diablo-esque dungeons that are never the same twice.

The rest is just juggling that carrot on the stick, giving people things to do while thinking it worth the time. Updates don't need to be monthly, especially if people are expected to play multiple characters, but this 4+ month shit and 20% complete expansions some pull off is no bueno. Meanwhile, those who do munch through content in days because they play 24/7 need to man up and accept they're not the actual target audience and play something else until more is added, not so much demand the game be built around them, effectively screwing everyone else because the game more resembles work with obnoxious "long term" objectives. Easier said than done? Maybe. But I also want to see people bitch to encourage future devs to at least try.

Seeing some games "require" hundreds of millions to make just boggles my mind. That's really the only way I can sum that up.

[Churchill]

I actually think Anet is a good example because they aren't quite WoW (with millions of subscriptions) and they are so good and so bad at the same time.

If we look at Anet's dungeons, almost all of them have the possibility of bugging out, primarily due to NPC's that 'guide' the dungeon not meeting a checkpoint or their task being interrupted/stuck. Over time, a lot of these have been fixed, though some are a persistent bane of many peoples enjoyment because you're playing roulette as to if the dungeon will even allow you to complete it.

I don't mind this, I don't pay for the game and PVE is what it is. If I was paying for the game each month, especially in a game such as FFXIV where the gear may not be a cosmetic upgrade to an armor set I already have the stats for then that wouldn't be acceptable.

Anet also hotfixes their patches within hours (usually). If a game that survives on a gem store can do this, then I can certainly expect it or better from any other developer and especially from ones I pay each month. SE's capital is irrelevant in the face of the standard other developers set. (And again, Anet is pretty bad)

I'm not calling for a new dungeon every month, I understand what goes into making content and testing it. I don't think it's unfair to expect monthly updates in a game you play for. SE already has high marks to hit just in terms of keeping up with their leveling quests, Crystal Tower, PvP, job balancing, FATE, Open World stuff/fluff, and other/new Raid/Dungeon content.

For a lot of people who play the game, they don't even have to deliver and that's sort of the point.

Edit: Also, quit trolling Nadrojj.

[Kohan]

I think it's more appropriate to say a middle ground needs to be found between models of yesteryear and, well, I guess the future. If shit's too expensive to make, then it perhaps behooves future developers to find ways to do so more cheaply and efficiently. [...]

Seeing some games "require" hundreds of millions to make just boggles my mind. That's really the only way I can sum that up.

I'm not ignoring Church's latest post, but I'm coincidentally about to leave my own workplace, and can't write as detailed of a post as I normally would.

I'll try to touch on this in brief, though: it shouldn't boggle your mind. It is, in fact, extremely easy and not at all bonkers to spend that kind of money. Consider that there are hundreds of people involved: producers/project managers, marketing, HR, maintenance, full teams of developers for multiple facets (e.g., game developers, and tool developers), artists, audio engineers, multiple QA teams for different aspects of every title (e.g., general QA, user experience, web, tools), localization, and the list goes on. Although I broke down some of those categories, practically all of them come in many flavors of their own. That is a shitload of people, some of them being very talented and therefore commanding of a high price tag—and I'm just scratching the surface, here.

Pile onto that the costs for every resource required—rent for a building, all of the related utilities, parking space, materials (everything from a huge range of computers for comprehensive testing to rendering farms)...

It's very easy.

[Cream Soda]

Legacy up in this mofo. Signed up the last week to be eligible for it. Played the game for about a week, got PL'd to 50
Ready for 2.0

[Oreth]

Legacy up in this mofo. Signed up the last week to be eligible for it. Played the game for about a week, got PL'd to 50
Ready for 2.0

GTFO

[Grey Jorildyn]

Legacy up in this mofo. Signed up the last week to be eligible for it. Played the game for about a week, got PL'd to 50
Ready for 2.0

Can't afford food, but subs 3 months and doesn't play, just so he can get a discount later. That's planning ahead.

Good man.

[Cream Soda]

Discount is what sold it for me. w/o that I wouldn't have cared

[Elcura]

What qualifies as acceptable for a monthly update? I ask because even the content planning stage could take weeks, if not months. And that's just planning, it doesn't even cover production, implementation or testing. Weapons, armour, enemies, environments, props, etc all take a long time to go from the drawing board to in-game. Even tweaks in existing elements need to be planned and thought about carefully lest you break some shit that wasn't already broken and end up with an even bigger hassle. Sometimes I think developers are most afraid of fixing their shit rather than making new things.

All in all, I think a month is highly unrealistic for general purposes, and hotfixes should be applied whenever they are ready, not at specific times.

[jwang]

As long as they don't have weekly server maintenance I'll be happy.

[Falisa]

Really wish I had just paid for the 3 months of FFXIV time for legacy. Was super broke last year.

[Churchill]

http://kotaku.com/5985822/why-were-t...tation-4-event


^Kohan, quit lying about being in the game industry. I think this article proves otherwise.

[Charismatic]

http://kotaku.com/5985822/why-were-t...tation-4-event


^Kohan, quit lying about being in the game industry. I think this article proves otherwise.

Thank you for killing my braincells.
That was one of the dumbest articles I've read in some time... also the comments, ugh.

[Abandon]

she doesn't work for sony, if that helps clear things up.