Reinheart's NA to JP (and vice versa hopefully) Q&A. Also including a list of useful phrases.

[Stanislaw]

Wouldn't that possibly have to do with the fiasco of them changing kanji to try and make an inbetween with Japanese and Chinese characters? Wasn't there some laffs over them changing the chocobo symbol to try to make it more Chinese?

Ah, the horsebird.

The fiasco you're referring to is the time when the game initially launched, the game was filled with so much kanji (the Japanese version of the Chinese alphabet), it made everyone's brain hurt even just to read them. Try to imagine almost every in-game item/ability/feature written in something like Shakespearean English, and it's even worse than that. Being traditional my ass.

The multitude of headaches initiated from the fact that the most kanji letters/symbols can be pronounced in 2(+) different ways, and although people could fathom a guess as to what they mean because the each kanji symbol has an overall meaning behind each one (as an interesting side note, we can use this to our advantage and sort-of communicate with the Chinese through these letters), the problem was that we couldn't figure out the proper way to pronounce them since all these items are supposed to be fantasy and thus real-life equivalents didn't exist. To put it in perspective, it's like telling the English-speaking community to pronounce something like 'Xnvlzpyl" correctly with no references.

This was a huge problem because if we didn't know how to pronounce them, we couldn't type them out. Us Japanese use the romaji system when we type our language with our keyboards, and to put it into simple terms it's pretty much typing the language out in English pronunciation (ex: to type the Japanese letter 'na', we type 'n' and 'a' into the keyboard and the program automatically converts the input into the Japanese character), thus, we couldn't even communicate each other the in-game terms.

This is further complicated by the fact that some of the in-game text was really small, and because kanji has some complex lettering there were times where we couldn't tell which symbol was which since not all of us have perfect 20/20 visions. So yea, an idea of why most of us were in such an uproar when it happened.

Thankfully, this was later corrected by patch that converted most of these fulfilled names into katakana, but because the problem I described in the previous post happened after this patch was put into place, the fiasco really didn't have to do anything with it.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I get it. You know why?

Two words: Pirate-speak.

[Sign]

Ugh, that shit was the worst in LL. I really hope they have toned it down some.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

The most neglected part of that entire 'examines you.' argument is that you could filter that message in the config. I had it filtered permanently because morons would spam check you during Nidhogg fights and shit and it was annoying. Don't like something? Turn it off! Dumbass JPs.

I might be little late to respond to this particular conversation, but I just think it's good to be polite and relatively conservative in an international environment. I think there were plenty of people who didn't particularly care or did have it filtered, but there are always people who want to have the chance to be an asshole, which I hope mostly explains the MPKing and ragefests mentioned earlier. On the other hand, I remember I got a few appreciative okays and good-natured ribbing for "asking such a needless question" back in the day. Maybe my server just wasn't as vitriolic, though.

In general, I think the examine stuff is an example of how our concept of online identity is really different from theirs, but my limited experience has me thinking Japan is really just... strange when it comes to cultural sensitivity and, well, anything that isn't "Japanese enough," basically. We Westerners aren't a shining example either, but I'd like to think think we're a little better on average - or at least, games like XI and XIV self-select for a crowd that is. Just as an fairly commonplace example, a head teacher - which implies years of experience, teacher certified, college educated, etc. - asked me the other day, "Is there influenza in America?" It kinda just leaves you to not be a dick about it by reacting with things like, "Really? The fuck do you think?"

(Even though you SO wish you could...)

Also, sorry about my stereotyping Stanislaw. lol

Edit: Just so I can pretend to contribute to the actual topic, anyone else finding the "please invite me to your linkshell" phrases a little coarse?

[miokomioko]

stuffs

This problem was widespread across all Japanese NPC dialog in the game? I was under the assumption that it was more localized with certain NPCs/races speaking in what was supposed to read as a more traditional dialect, much like the Lominsan pirate-speak was somewhat localized.

[Stromgarde]

I can't even imagine how weird it would be have trying to refer to almost any in-game term be like a game of Taboo.

For those unfamiliar, it's a game where you try to get the other person to guess a certain word or phrase without naming it directly or using certain forbidden related terms.

[Ksandra]

This is further complicated by the fact that some of the in-game text was really small, and because kanji has some complex lettering there were times where we couldn't tell which symbol was which since not all of us have perfect 20/20 visions. So yea, an idea of why most of us were in such an uproar when it happened.

This used to annoy the shit out of me too, actually. I took japanese in college for four semesters, so knew the language fairly well. Was definitely a challenge coming into FFXI though because, obviously, I didn't learn worlds like "Black Mage" in Japanese. But I met a lot of JP and could hold myself fairly well in a convo with a dictionary to look up kanji I didn't know (I was fluent enough to know how to look them up). But ya, was next to impossible to read some to even know the lines to be able to find out what they were, so had to mostly ask they stick to romanji for me.

Sad, that was over ten years ago now when I took the classes. Overtime I started dreading when my jp friends would send me tells as my fluency got worse and worse. Especially one friend who had such terrible slang it was like an Osaka-accent gone wrong.

Made me feel good though, this weekend went to Little Tokyo with my family and Rein's. Was able to talk to some of the cashiers and they kept asking if my husband was japanese and I had to keep saying he's philipino lol.

[Stanislaw]

This problem was widespread across all Japanese NPC dialog in the game? I was under the assumption that it was more localized with certain NPCs/races speaking in what was supposed to read as a more traditional dialect, much like the Lominsan pirate-speak was somewhat localized.

The 'way' of NPCs speaking hasn't changed. It's just the that in-game terms that were almost all written in kanji. So Chocobo was 'horsebird', Imp was 'little demon', Puks were 'flying lizards' when they could've just written in katakana and they'd all be fine.

I can't even imagine how weird it would be have trying to refer to almost any in-game term be like a game of Taboo.

For those unfamiliar, it's a game where you try to get the other person to guess a certain word or phrase without naming it directly or using certain forbidden related terms.

This. A thousand times over. This describes the situation perfectly. Thank you.

Also, sorry about my stereotyping Stanislaw. lol

lol no worries. I never quite got the whole 'check' issue in FFXI myself, but that was probably because I've been heavily westernized in my way of thinking in-between playing with both the JP and NA MMO community. I think one of the biggest JP gripes about check was that if it was just one check, it was fine, but NAs tended to repeatedly check over and over and thus annoyed them.

One thing I probably should say is that one of the biggest JP gripes about the NA community is the way the NAs have frequent shout matches, and absolutely stupid ones too if the recent FFXIV beta test was any indication. Linkshells can't come soon enough, lol

[Seravi Edalborez]

One thing I probably should say is that one of the biggest JP gripes about the NA community is the way the NAs have frequent shout matches, and absolutely stupid ones too if the recent FFXIV beta test was any indication. Linkshells can't come soon enough, lol

This is actually a pretty interesting behavior I've observed in another game (Phantasy Star Online 2). While there's no global chat per se there, JP players tend not to talk very much in the lobby area at all (contrast with the one channel every non-JP player hangs out in which is what you'd expect from the average English community in a MMO). Even in parties you generally just "yoroshiku" at the start, if at all, and continue in silence.

Short version: they prefer to not publicize, especially if the chat isn't really "productive". And I'd tend to agree.

[Kipling]

Koreans were the same way when I played K-TERA.

tl;dr - NA's are loud and obnoxious, and always will be regardless of what game it is.

[iulus]

It's actually 'saburiga' in JP.

Just like it's giru instead of gil (#16), reberu instead of level (#5), and e!? instead of Eh!? (#35). I was just catching that it wasn't consistent with the other cases where "subligar" was used (#34, 45).

[miokomioko]

The 'way' of NPCs speaking hasn't changed. It's just the that in-game terms that were almost all written in kanji. So Chocobo was 'horsebird', Imp was 'little demon', Puks were 'flying lizards' when they could've just written in katakana and they'd all be fine.

That sounds like a really odd way to go about things. Is there any logical explanation to it other than trying to make every bit of dialog in the game feel dated?

[Stanislaw]

That sounds like a really odd way to go about things. Is there any logical explanation to it other than trying to make every bit of dialog in the game feel dated?

When all of this was happening, a certain SE JP dev has Tweeted saying that "It was the dev's (who was in charge) hobby."

lol, the nerve.

Edit: Found it. Tanaka's tweet.

The general consensus among the JPs is that SE just outsourced the thing to China, though. Since almost everything looked so Chinese, and could be read as such. The ongoing joke was "Chinal Fantasy XIV".

Just like it's giru instead of gil (#16), reberu instead of level (#5), and e!? instead of Eh!? (#35). I was just catching that it wasn't consistent with the other cases where "subligar" was used (#34, 45).

Sorry about that. For the sake of consistency then nevermind. I always tend to be so technical over everything. =P

This is actually a pretty interesting behavior I've observed in another game (Phantasy Star Online 2). While there's no global chat per se there, JP players tend not to talk very much in the lobby area at all (contrast with the one channel every non-JP player hangs out in which is what you'd expect from the average English community in a MMO). Even in parties you generally just "yoroshiku" at the start, if at all, and continue in silence.

Short version: they prefer to not publicize, especially if the chat isn't really "productive". And I'd tend to agree.

Technically speaking we actually do publicize, except that we talk most frequently on our respective linkshells and not with the global chat/in-party chat. In a party full of friends and linkshell members such, we talk a hellva lot. But the moment when we invite an 'outsider' inside, for the sake of not leaving the outsider in the dust, we quiet down and go back in talking inside our linkshells. We feel it's slightly 'impolite' otherwise.

This of course is how I generally see it. After all, I'm like a walking example of exceptions when it comes to typical JP behavior. XD

[Purrrfect]

In a party full of friends and linkshell members such, we talk a hellva lot.

See also: Controller video. "Hai. Hai, hai. Haihaihaihai." lol

[Churchill]

Koreans were the same way when I played K-TERA.

tl;dr - NA's are loud and obnoxious, and always will be regardless of what game it is.

I suppose it's a good thing the Japanese aren't nearly as good at 14 as NA's are.

[Churchill]

How long has this been double posted. wtg

[Stanislaw]

I suppose it's a good thing the Japanese aren't nearly as good at 14 as NA's are.

In terms of in-linkshell parties/raids full (with quality players), yea, but in terms of pickups the NAs are terribad.

[Ratatapa]

In terms of in-linkshell parties/raids full (with quality players), yea, but in terms of pickups the NAs are terribad.

True strike Garuda for me is a perfect exemple got like 50 wins with pick up jp and 3-4 with pick up na lol

[miokomioko]

NA pickups in this game have entirely consisted of:

you: (I'm interested.)
them: Have you won?
you: Not yet, but [insert how many times you've tried/come close/etc.].
them: (No, thanks.)

[Gulkeeva]

No matter the race, and game, there will always be good and bad, it just all comes down to luck on who you get in your group. Usually asking how experienced and knowledgeable on the fight each person is, helps.

Then again, for some common sense escapes people like "Do not stand in the fire, it does damage" and they continue to stand in it expecting you to heal them through it or something, then again its hard to educate people on what their doing wrong if they don't speak your language... (oh man some terrible players in RO2, at least ffxiv has auto translate)