Rune Fencer Findings

[Sayzar]

And to keep on topic, I also saw that RUN has no healing ability outside of regen... why didn't they give RUN some cures since they wanted it to be on par with PLD?

At one point I think it was planned for them to have curing magic, through some dat mining it was discovered that (at least at one point pre-release) that they had cure spells up to cure V or something like that. I guess at last minute they decided it would hurt PLD's too much for RUN to also have cures in addition to Regen IV, Stoneskin, etc

[Taim Meich]

Extended parry parse on lv0 mobs:

Spoiler: show

Again, 7 mandies on me, one o the side, so I only could hit (and thus parry) 6.

3284 hits, 6/7 of which came from parryable mandragoras, so 2815 (effective) hits.

1442 parries.

So, sample size is 4257, and thus parry rate is 33.87% +- 1.42% with a confidence rate of 95%.



Meanwhile, I did parse parry rate on Yashe mandragoras while skilling up GS and parry. This means parry was not capped to A+ at the beginning of the parse, but rather was at C-, Warrior's cap. I expect this to have zero impact on the results, as an A+ parry skill will still be at a floored 5% parry rate if things have not changed from the past, but it's better to warn about it.

The data, not as extensive, is as follows:

Spoiler: show

1666 hits, from which I have to discount 21 due to being hit while asleep during Dream flower, so 1645 effective hits.

337 parries.

That's a sample size of 1982, giving a parry rate of 17.00% +- 1.65% with a confidence rate of 95%.



So, RUN's parry rate is increased from the base by at least 12%, probably 13%. That seems to indicate an initial Inquartata bonus of 10% extra parry rate, and then 2 or 3 trait upgrades of 1% each.

[ViolentDjango]

So, RUN's parry rate is increased from the base by at least 12%, probably 13%. That's seems to indicate an initial Inquartata bonus of 10% extra parry rate, and then 2 or 3 trait upgrades of 1% each.

I'm expecting a merit ability that intensifies this effect.

[Sukian]

I think they need to change focus for RUN so that it isn't the primary tank but augments the roles of the current tanks (dds). Have them being able to provide defensive capabilities full time to the other DD instead of part time and that will allow them a slot and provide support damage. Hell I would even like to see /dnc become the norm.

imagine run giving haste samba to the two DD, aoe magic def buff, and backup oh shit tank scenarios. If they can augment not only the defensive capabilities but offensive they can stay in.

DD
DD
RUN
BRD
COR (or SCH if you rotate cor and brd)
WHM

is what I would like to see the new tank set up be.

[Dotsudoku]

May as well just put a real dancer in there for better debuffs, better buffs, and the ability to drop an AoE waltz if necessary

And for dangerous things, defensive BRD/SMN measures will be better

[orakiodg]

May as well just put a real dancer in there for better debuffs, better buffs, and the ability to drop an AoE waltz if necessary

And for dangerous things, defensive BRD/SMN measures will be better

Agreed. I would NOT like Rune Fencer as a semi-support with no other real purpose. Either make it a real tank or make it a moderate tier DD with some support abilities, but I don't want to see Rune Fencer as a support class or semi-support.

[Sukian]

That would only provide reactionary support instead of actual defense. You can gain the same effect by even out of party cures.

though you are right the set up I mentioned really only useful for mobs with huge aoe magic to moves

brd/smn you are restricted by recast time and lowering of overall dmg. That's assuming run can do more dmg than smn

[Dotsudoku]

Unless we're talking about temporary invulnerability, actual defense is rarely suggestible over reactionary support with a dash of offensive flair in this game

And again, if we're talking unmanageable levels of AoE magic, we're talking SMN and BRD, not RUN

Being kind of a not-so-AoE tank would be a neat role they could expand on, but that isn't anywhere near what RUN is capable of based on their JA structure

[Sukian]

Well I'm only assuming if run was able to provide aoe defense that it would be at substantial level (talking like old school fire resist sets on tiamat)

but ya current ja structure doesn't make it feasible, that's why I'm hoping merits/gear change or enhance duration

[Dotsudoku]

I'm hoping for an adjustment a la initial>eventual SCH tbh. I think they had the right idea, but they were entirely too conservative with timers/durations/etc.

[dasva]

Well part of the problem with run tanking is real tanking has been long dead and there are better things to use as already suggested. It's why other tank jobs are also not so desirable usually. It's more of a symptom of a larger problem that it sounds like they are working on. I think if we were doing oldschool tanking run as is would work quiet well but oldschool tanking is fail as long as we have the ability to throw real DDson hard content with impunity

[Huntyadown]

@ Taim Meich

I'm confused. If the parry floor is 5% and you're tests show a base parry rate of 5% before RUN buffs then what exactly does parry skill do if it doesn't increase the parry skill rate past the base of 5%? Did I miss something?

[Taim Meich]

@ Taim Meich

I'm confused. If the parry floor is 5% and you're tests show a base parry rate of 5% before RUN buffs then what exactly does parry skill do if it doesn't increase the parry skill rate past the base of 5%? Did I miss something?

No, you didn't. Parry (along with guard) has always been a very broken skill, in the sense that even with capped A+ skill, activation rate is floored against EM+ enemies, and only starts to grow on shit mobs. They acknowledged this and, instead of giving RUN more skill, since they knew that would do nothing, increased the base by a fixed amount. The A+ skill is purely cosmetical: RUN could have a D in parry, and still have 17-18% parry rate on Adoulin mobs thanks to the trait.

[Huntyadown]

No, you didn't. Parry (along with guard) has always been a very broken skill, in the sense that even with capped A+ skill, activation rate is floored against EM+ enemies, and only starts to grow on shit mobs. They acknowledged this and, instead of giving RUN more skill, since they knew that would do nothing, increased the base by a fixed amount. The A+ skill is purely cosmetical: RUN could have a D in parry, and still have 17-18% parry rate on Adoulin mobs thanks to the trait.

Right on, thanks for the quick reply. So... in essence if I'm sitting at around 280 parry... there's absolutely no reason for me to go out and actively attempt to level it? Aside from increasing my parry rate against things that already can't kill me anyways?

[Damane]

Well part of the problem with run tanking is real tanking has been long dead and there are better things to use as already suggested. It's why other tank jobs are also not so desirable usually. It's more of a symptom of a larger problem that it sounds like they are working on. I think if we were doing oldschool tanking run as is would work quiet well but oldschool tanking is fail as long as we have the ability to throw real DDson hard content with impunity

this is only one part of the problem, the other big problem of RUN atm is that they are outclassed by a relic in their respectiv department of mitgating magic dmg. As long as Aegis goes over the cap RUN will never be able to touch an Aegis PLD when it comes to magic defense. There is 2 solutions to this: nerf Aegis or make RUN a very potent buffer for the whole PT to avoid magic-dmg while being able to tank.
the other problem is the physical defense part of RUN. being on thaumas stuff and such is great, but if you are facing something that wrecks a pld into pieces you arent gonna be able to do fuck as paper-armor tank with little to no defense against physical attacks.

RUN seems to be for me atm a old day WAR tank with better hate hold capabilitys and better ways to mitgate magic damage, but way less offensiv tools.

GEO on the other hand was very uniquly designed and will find its spot in alliances with it debuffs that reward the whole alliance and buffs for its PTs. It just lacks 2-3 minor things to make it more effectiv in lowman situations (where it is a bit less then decent). But considering none of unique AF/Relic/Empys are out and no merit IIs, no unique bells etc, this job has definitly potential even for lowman PTs. It is combined with SCH (Regen V + Indi-Regen) the best mobile PT healing combination (provided your melees dont scatter in 4 different directions).

[Taim Meich]

Right on, thanks for the quick reply. So... in essence if I'm sitting at around 280 parry... there's absolutely no reason for me to go out and actively attempt to level it? Aside from increasing my parry rate against things that already can't kill me anyways?

Pretty much, yeah. But anyway, since the last update, you'll cap it eventually just by fighting mobs, it's not ultra-hard to cap like before. Funny, the most difficult to cap skills (parry and guard) were also the ones that offered absolutely no advantage when capped.

this is only one part of the problem, the other big problem of RUN atm is that they are outclassed by a relic in their respectiv department of mitgating magic dmg. As long as Aegis goes over the cap RUN will never be able to touch an Aegis PLD when it comes to magic defense. There is 2 solutions to this: nerf Aegis or make RUN a very potent buffer for the whole PT to avoid magic-dmg while being able to tank.

So far, you're right. If RUN can get the timer of Valiance down to 4 mins, or even better, being able to fulltime it, and the Mythic gives a 4th rune, a normal RUN will be able to provide the party with an additional to Shell V 45% mitigation for one element, reducing the overall damage to at least 40% of the full damage (counting only Shell V and Valiance). The Mythic one will be able to provide even better defense, up to 60% mitigation, plus a general performance increase associated with the extra rune.

BTW, an AoE Pflug to accompany Valiance would be really welcome: fulltime status protection for us, and 3 minutes of status protection to the party (although quasi-immunity is only achieved with the corresponding bar-element and bar-status, in my experience).

[dasva]

this is only one part of the problem, the other big problem of RUN atm is that they are outclassed by a relic in their respectiv department of mitgating magic dmg. As long as Aegis goes over the cap RUN will never be able to touch an Aegis PLD when it comes to magic defense. There is 2 solutions to this: nerf Aegis or make RUN a very potent buffer for the whole PT to avoid magic-dmg while being able to tank.
the other problem is the physical defense part of RUN. being on thaumas stuff and such is great, but if you are facing something that wrecks a pld into pieces you arent gonna be able to do fuck as paper-armor tank with little to no defense against physical attacks.

Well first part is yes and no. Without accounting for resist yeah run will only get dmg to -72.5 to one element vs aegis 87.5%. And SE has put out they definitely don't want to make a job automatically shit on relic tanking. But you got runes for a reason you start forcing resists (which I think SE is trying to get us to do again) and you will lower dmg much more than aegis with a couple of nifty perks for random occasions (that really need their timers lowered lol). But yeah physically they kinda fail and I think that was kinda the point so it would be a fairly niche roll.

[Huntyadown]

Does RUN's Tenacity job trait or enhanced magic resistance decrease the duration of debuffs such as paralyze and slow?

[Rocl]

Based on the log messages, it seems to function as all Resist traits. That is, as far as I know, it's an outright chance to resist not a sort of partial resist thing.

[chichicha]

Just a bit bored with Reive...
Then I went to play with Lunge Formula, base on BGwiki.

1) 440 Skill, with MAB 6 x 3 Runes = 1749dmg (As non-resisted, regular dmg)
2) 445 Skill, with MAB 0 x 3 Runes = 1668dmg (Since, I recalled that those Headband with Skill+5, trying a comparison with MAB.)
3) 467 Skill, with MAB 0 x 3 Runes = 1751dmg (i.e. You need to push +26 to +27 Skill level to make it even with MAB+6)

Then I came out with my Ideal Setup - MAB+46 set with 445 Skill level , I can get approx. 2436dmg every 3 minutes (as non-crit, non-resisted, regular.)
And I believed, if you do Gambit before you make a 3 Runes Lunge, dmg should be boost for another 25% to 50%
(by eyeballing during my fights)

Next thing, I am going to look at Mag Crit Hit rate+ for any slot free...

If there is merit that reduce Lunge recast, I will definitely hit it ^.^