New SE CEO wants to review the company.

[Kohan]

Not dismissing anything as stupid or untrue, just exaggerated.

That was a specific reference to this:

(and mostly just stupid BELTSBUCKLZ comments)

As for its not being an over-exaggeration, that was already covered.

Asymmetrical design in 3D modelling is a positive thing and anyone who has studied art or design knows that a purely symmetrical model or design looks like ass and is super obvious. Nomura might have been a pain in the ass for wanting asymmetrical designs way before technology could properly handle it (but even in current game development it is something you keep in mind) but he certainly wasn't wrong for making designs that obviously weren't copied from one side to another.

There are plenty of symmetrical models that don't "look like ass," and you're oversimplifying by suggesting as much. A Square-specific, post-Nomura, and utterly perfect example of this?



Since we've all played it, I shouldn't need to elaborate, but the vast majority of models in the game were symmetrical. When exceptions were made so certain characters would stand out, their designs may have been outlandish, but they were eye-catchingly so—Lion, Aldo, et cetera.

The world of FFXI, even today, is lushly cohesive and wholly suited to the "fantasy" label. It's representative of what Square was before Nomura, and demonstrated that they could still do it after—and explicitly without—him.

FFXIV, as the aesthetic heir to FFXI, follows this example rather wonderfully. Artistically, whose world would you rather be in—FFX's, or FFXIV's?

I had read everything else you wrote, but I've cut it out because I believe that what I've written here already addresses it. You went on with an incredibly elaborate piece about art theory and execution, none of which I disagree with at its core levels. The reason I didn't do that myself, though, is because—as you've said—anyone who has studied it already understands those concepts. You knew what I was talking about, and understood, even if you disagree on the overreaching impact of Nomura's influence.

Didn't they hire him as a tester first? Doesn't matter. Regardless, they didn't hire him on one piece (and certainly not this piece) alone.

Yes, he was originally a tester. His portfolio, to the best of my knowledge, consisted of characters like the aforementioned, plus his own renditions of characters originally designed by others.

It's a fact he's a great artist,

I can't agree.

Someone who doesn't operate seamlessly within the constraints of the creative world they're contributing to is like a special snowflake that positively must stand out, and that fractures the vision. I've never seen him create anything that makes him more noteworthy than the average doujin artist in Japan, and his effectively being a showboater doesn't make him an admirable contributor to the video game development process.

it's subjective opinion that he's a great character designer or director. It doesn't really matter to me if you like Nomura's design personally, since even I hate some of his designs but I respect him as an artist.

I believe he's an all right artist. I certainly don't believe he's anywhere near talented enough to have been a good choice for helming and directing an abundance of multi-million dollar productions over the years, especially given what a lot of those productions put the company through.

Yeah, I know all this already. But anatomy isn't the only skill you need

No, it isn't. It's just an example.

Context is important for design, sure, which is why I say as a designer and/or director Nomura isn't fantastic or amazing. When you look at his characters individually they are very strong, with clear silhouettes that are memorable.

I didn't want to get too deep into artistic specifics earlier, but I wouldn't agree on his sense of design being as strong as you suggest it is. There isn't enough variation in hairstyle, facial shape, or muscle definition in his characters. If you look at his original drawings, Tidus, Squall, and Cloud are practically the same person facially. Sephiroth doesn't just look feminine because he was designed to be—he virtually looks like a copy-and-paste of any long-haired female Nomura has designed and drawn. We've already touched on how predictable he is in relation to belts and zippers, so we don't need to go there again.

There's another problem with this. His characters aren't distinct—they're samey. He over-uses the same angles, because he probably knows that he only draws characters well at a tilt, while they're looking down or to the side, and so on. You can flip his art, and suddenly, opposite arms look too small, or details don't fit in right. When you observe characters' faces, they have one of three chins, they have one of two scowls, and so on. These are all the hallmarks of an average artist.

You may think he's great, but I don't see it. Putting multiple drawings of his side by side, and/or rotating them, I only see the same techniques applied ad infinitum. To me, that's mediocrity.

What you call ridiculous I think is interesting, art and character design is subjective and all that. It doesn't matter why you dislike Nomura or his work, they're undeniably memorable and they all have impact. As for Amano, his designs are interesting but completely impractical for production. The only reason it worked in old FF is because they didn't have the technology to accurately render his designs, so it didn't fucking matter at all what they looked like.

This was already touched on by a late response I posted, but Amano wasn't a director, which played a very important role as well. The case being made is that Nomura has his hand in too many pies, and that his artistic sense is indeed directly tied into the consequences of that.

I don't know why SE chose style over substance, and I'm not arguing that they didn't but I certainly don't blame one guy for it just because he changed his mind on some character designs.

I would never say he's solely responsible. Clearly, plenty of people had to be submissive to his whims while closing their eyes and plugging their ears to what was happening around them. What I am saying is that his responsibility is undeniably significant, especially considering the importance of any director's role.

[Correction]

I don't dislike Nomura's work. I do believe SE stretched him too thinly by expecting him to do everything in the XIII universe like he's James Fucking Ramirez. This has lead to a real creative stagnation when once you had multiple people giving input to their flagship franchise.

Toshiyuki Itahana
http://i.minus.com/ibccZxNtGjwsHD.jpg

Akihiko Yoshida
http://i.minus.com/i4Ow3Md7p9ALV.jpg

I REALLY miss the hell out of the times when Final Fantasy did not all look like it was dropped out of the sketchbook of a single artist. My single biggest beef with Nomura is that he's not designing characters anymore. He's putting clothes on otherwise generic fashion models, twirling their hair like Dr. Seuss and saying 'DONE. NEXT.' I'm positive his strengths (back when he was designing much simpler things during the PS1/2 eras) would come back if not for the toxic production culture at SE.

[Kohan]

I find it especially poignant that you displayed some of Yoshida's work, since they were the artistic director for the aforementioned FFXIV. I personally would wager that it's a good example of what you're looking for—specifically, a blend of multiple artists' contributions—given its inheriting aspects from FFXI (Ryosuke Aiba) and then enjoying other classical elements (Akihiko Yoshida).

[Correction]

I'll probably just look for the unique NPC models in XIV since MMOs go for deliberate blandness and fan service in equal measure when it comes to player avatar creation. No desire to play the game. I do remember the early concept work for XIV was gorgeous.

[Kohan]

I'll probably just look for the unique NPC models in XIV since MMOs go for deliberate blandness and fan service in equal measure when it comes to player avatar creation. No desire to play the game. I do remember the early concept work for XIV was gorgeous.

I don't play FFXIV either, but I'm strongly impressed by it artistically. The design of environments and the seamless visual integration of the characters within it is very nice.

[Lucavi]

Yokihido (my nickname) is boss for doing both Tactics Ogre AND Final Fantasy Tactics.

Bravo!

[Elcura]

There are plenty of symmetrical models that don't "look like ass," and you're oversimplifying by suggesting as much. A Square-specific, post-Nomura, and utterly perfect example of this?

Given a choice between a symmetrical model and asymmetrical model, the asymmetrical one will always look better. That's not to say you can't do a symmetrical model that looks amazing, but if it were asymmetrical it would definitely look better.

Since we've all played it, I shouldn't need to elaborate, but the vast majority of models in the game were symmetrical. When exceptions were made so certain characters would stand out, their designs may have been outlandish, but they were eye-catchingly so—Lion, Aldo, et cetera.

The world of FFXI, even today, is lushly cohesive and wholly suited to the "fantasy" label. It's representative of what Square was before Nomura, and demonstrated that they could still do it after—and explicitly without—him.

FFXIV, as the aesthetic heir to FFXI, follows this example rather wonderfully. Artistically, whose world would you rather be in—FFX's, or FFXIV's?

FFXI's symmetry was due to technical restraints (obviously) so it was clear that they weren't going to have asymmetrical designs as standard. In terms of actual character design it wasn't ideal, the unique NPCs had ideal conditions but even that was limited. I'm not going to bash XI for it's wonderful art, because it's a fine example of pushing artistic standards against technical limitations and I adore shit like that. But I'm confident that if XI wasn't an MMO (and XIV) the gear designs would have been even more impressive. XIV has more instances of asymmetrical design and a lot of symmetrical designs hidden by asymmetrical parts (like a body with odd gloves or a belt that slopes down one side or random big pouch etc) but overall does a better job of making it look good regardless thanks to advances in technology.

I agree XI's world is wonderfully cohesive and looks great, but I would argue that KH has those qualities as well. To say nothing of what each game was in terms of story or gameplay, visually Nomura's games aren't worse off even though I agree they lack that strong cohesive design sense that ties the world together. Usually that's glossed over with OTT graphics and production but those serve a purpose too.

I can't agree.

Someone who doesn't operate seamlessly within the constraints of the creative world they're contributing to is like a special snowflake that positively must stand out, and that fractures the vision. I've never seen him create anything that makes him more noteworthy than the average doujin artist in Japan, and his effectively being a showboater doesn't make him an admirable contributor to the video game development process.

I disagree, but I suppose that much is obvious at this point. That's like saying if everyone isn't perfect at their jobs they shouldn't be doing it (or at least don't deserve to be famous for it). I mean it's easy to say what he's created that's noteworthy and what he's contributed to character design as a whole.

I believe he's an all right artist. I certainly don't believe he's anywhere near talented enough to have been a good choice for helming and directing an abundance of multi-million dollar productions over the years, especially given what a lot of those productions put the company through.

I don't completely disagree with this, KH is pretty much the only thing I'm glad he has because for the most part I like him much more as a character designer. However, it feels like you are placing a lot of blame on Nomura for SEs failings when there are a lot of reasons SE failed as a company. I can imagine the art direction being more varied without Nomura, but I doubt the quality of gameplay (which is still pretty poor by today's standards) or story would've gotten better.

I didn't want to get too deep into artistic specifics earlier, but I wouldn't agree on his sense of design being as strong as you suggest it is. There isn't enough variation in hairstyle, facial shape, or muscle definition in his characters. If you look at his original drawings, Tidus, Squall, and Cloud are practically the same person facially. Sephiroth doesn't just look feminine because he was designed to be—he virtually looks like a copy-and-paste of any long-haired female Nomura has designed and drawn. We've already touched on how predictable he is in relation to belts and zippers, so we don't need to go there again.

There's another problem with this. His characters aren't distinct—they're samey. He over-uses the same angles, because he probably knows that he only draws characters well at a tilt, while they're looking down or to the side, and so on. You can flip his art, and suddenly, opposite arms look too small, or details don't fit in right. When you observe characters' faces, they have one of three chins, they have one of two scowls, and so on. These are all the hallmarks of an average artist.

You may think he's great, but I don't see it. Putting multiple drawings of his side by side, and/or rotating them, I only see the same techniques applied ad infinitum. To me, that's mediocrity.

There is a lot of variation in hair, if you look at similar characters throughout the series they share certain qualities (main hero and heroine tend to have the same profiles) but the rest of the cast and enemies tend to all have interesting looks. While FF7 doesn't have a very cohesive design throughout it does have strong characters individually. Even Cid (who I consider to have the weakest silhouette) is easily recognizable and while FF7 itself didn't feel very unified in its look, subsequent entries to the series have a better overall look (to say nothing of the content). His character designs (specifically when he was just a designer) include some of the most recognizable characters who you know for better or worse.

I wouldn't say his repetition is the sign of mediocrity, just repetition, since it doesn't eliminate the possibility of doing something different just the willingness to step out of a comfort zone. I can confidently say in a production environment cutting corners is necessary and for an artist that means sticking to what you know for what you know, and adding on top something different. It's not ideal to compromise like that but there's a certain point where the message is received so shit needs to keep moving. While you might have time to play around with new poses or angles (which as I explained before, brings in a whole lot of variables) you probably don't have time to play with poses, angles and a multitude of different looks and attitudes. If there's something you want to focus on as a character designer it's the design of the characters, less so the posing and framing. I can also say that every artist to some extent has a style or look they are comfortable with, and the artists you do find with varied portfolios tend to not be involved in production. I don't fault Nomura for this more than I fault any artist of it (which is not at all).

This was already touched on by a late response I posted, but Amano wasn't a director, which played a very important role as well. The case being made is that Nomura has his hand in too many pies, and that his artistic sense is indeed directly tied into the consequences of that.

I would never say he's solely responsible. Clearly, plenty of people had to be submissive to his whims while closing their eyes and plugging their ears to what was happening around them. What I am saying is that his responsibility is undeniably significant, especially considering the importance of any director's role.

Significant as a director, sure, as an artist and character designer not so much. That is to say the decisions made visually aren't the main reason SE is failing as a company. If there's something to be mad about when it comes to FF games I don't think look at the end of the day is one of them. They focus overly much on artistic quality and not enough on gameplay, which is part of the reason Nomura got as much leeway as he did, but the fault is shared just as much by others as it is Nomura. He isn't more significant for their failings than whoever decided what the story should be, or the coding, or marketing and so on. I understand why it happened though, when you consider in terms of gameplay what changed from 6 > 7 (hell, the changes from 1 > 10) then it's obvious that you would pool your resources into making the game look as good as you can. SEs failing was thinking that superseded gameplay and so they got lazy with pretty much everything but the look of each game. I wouldn't necessarily blame Nomura for all that, any artist would kill to be in that position and any artist would be just as likely to fuck it up.

[Tyrath]

Go play the 3rd Birthday and then come back and tell me you want SE to go dust off old IPs.

Having never played Parasite Eves I can't judge that.

[Kohan]

Stuff

I don't want to completely disrespect your post by not quoting it in full, but I'm about to go home for the day. We'll just have to respectfully disagree on Nomura's abilities. We agree on much else in relation to art. I appreciated the discussion.

[Elcura]

I don't want to completely disrespect your post by not quoting it in full, but I'm about to go home for the day. We'll just have to respectfully disagree on Nomura's abilities. We agree on much else in relation to art. I appreciated the discussion.

Don't worry about it. It was a fun discussion.

[-Zer0-]

I don't want to completely disrespect your post by not quoting it in full, but I'm about to go home for the day. We'll just have to respectfully disagree on Nomura's abilities. We agree on much else in relation to art. I appreciated the discussion.

Don't worry about it. It was a fun discussion.

Ditto. Wanted to chip in my thoughts about this but I've been swamped with work. Definitely appreciated what everyone put on the table for this discussion.

[6souls]

Final Fantasy 14 has re-focused Square Enix, ‘games as a service’ approach doesn’t appeal, says Rogers

Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn has been hailed as a key success by Square Enix, following the company’s most recent financials. Now, CEO of US and Europe Phil Rogers has stressed that the game has re-focused the publisher, but that ultimately the notion of games as services doesn’t resonate with gamers.

We reported on Square Enix’s financials last week. They showed that Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn has exceeded the company’s expectations.

Speaking with GI.biz, Rogers said, “There’s lots of talk in the industry about games becoming services – to be honest, as an expression this doesn’t always resonate with people, especially gamers. For us online is a way to facilitate how we’re looking at the word service to build on a game. So we’re focusing on regular content updates, engaging gameplay mechanics, replayability and deep community.”

During the company’s financial report, Square highlighted a focus on online experiences moving forward, such as Legacy of Kain off-shoot Nosgoth, among other projects.

On that proposition, Rogers continued, “The emphasis in the financials was specifically to point out some new online games we’re working on, Nosgoth was called out and Heroes and Generals would be another worthy mention. Now these are very particular types of games being free-to-play and PC based, but there are core principles here which apply to all our games, whether we’re looking at our AAA console games which are a major part of our future strategy, smartphone and tablet games and PC games.”

Does this mean a shift away from the console market? The site asked Rogers this very question, to which he replied, “That is a great question and I’m sure the question every company is asking themselves. You have to stand by what you believe in and we have to believe in quality and engagement as two key measurements to succeed, so we take comfort in the fact that we can develop critically acclaimed games which deliver a deep level of engagement.”

http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/11/fina...l-says-rogers/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...e-with-players

[6souls]

“Openness and Transparency”

Square Enix went through some major restructuring in the wake of a disappointing FY2013, and European CEO Phil Rogers says more has changed than a few job titles.

“We are entering a new world – and I don’t just mean gaming here. It’s a connected world, consumers are hyper-aware. When we look at how we take Square Enix forward in this era we have to adopt openness and transparency,” Rogers told MCV.

“I think our games, brands and us as a company must talk openly, must engage and must be true to our promises. Of course many will point out that there’s risk in doing this but if we can do this we’ll capture hearts and minds, earn trust and command loyalty and premium.”

The executive said Square Enix needs to listen and respond to consumers, and is already doing its best to be more communicative. Rogers himself has begin posting on the company blog, and the publisher is more likely to comment on news stories.

“Take last week when a cancelled Hitman story appeared online – if I think back to a year ago we probably wouldn’t have commented on it but we’re changing that. I don’t want people to be confused about what we’re doing,” he said.

IO Interactive’s open letter regarding the new direction for the Hitman universe is another example, as is the direct fan relationship established by Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn boss Naoki Yoshida. The Thief reboot has also been very public over the last year, with developers hosting Q&As and openly discussing significant design changes,

The trigger for Square Enix’s rethink came in early 2013, when its major western titles failed to meet their ambitious sales targets. Then-new president Yosuke Matsuda announced a fundamental review of the company’s business, and senior executive managing director Yosuke Matsuda concluded that long development times, locked away from consumer feedback, are both unprofitable and dishonest. It’s interesting and gratifying to see the results of this change in thinking go into practice.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/16/squa...-transparency/

[Correction]

The trigger for Square Enix’s rethink came in early 2013, when its major western titles failed to meet their ambitious sales targets. Then-new president Yosuke Matsuda announced a fundamental review of the company’s business, and senior executive managing director Yosuke Matsuda concluded that long development times, locked away from consumer feedback, are both unprofitable and dishonest. It’s interesting and gratifying to see the results of this change in thinking go into practice.

To his credit they have been more transparent about ongoing development projects...for mobiles.

[6souls]

Yoichi Wada Explains Why They Make Smartphone Games And Remakes (Spoiler: Low-risk, High-profit)

Since his resignation as CEO and president of Square Enix, not much has been heard about Yoichi Wada and what he’s been up to. During a recent presentation covered by 4Gamer, the former president spoke of past events that led to the change of Square Enix’s business model.

Square Enix have recently released several remakes such as Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix and Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster. Wada is asked if this is due to the company’s lack of new IP. According to Wada, the company’s business quality was not at its best when he assumed office as the president, and that’s how it all started.

After going through several brainstorming sessions at the time, they decided that releasing games that the development staff members could have confidence in would lead to better results for the company. So, the plan was to start out by making sequels and remakes of existing IP, followed by increasing the amount of new IP.

However, this is what Square Enix had planned about five years ago, and since then, they’ve faced several challenges such as delays in the development of games for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, coupled with slow progress while attempting creating new IP.

Additionally, they required several directors and other high-ranked staff members in the development of Final Fantasy XIV, which made it even harder to come up with their next “big hit” IP. For this reason, Wada began questioning whether it was required to only focus on high-end titles.

It was out of the question to pause the development of said high-end titles, as it would be much more difficult to resume development after stopping.

And so, Wada decided that it would be in Square’s best interests to continue on with these projects, even if it meant facing further hardship.

As a result, Square Enix staff were working on high-end titles with less than your average number of staff members, but at the same time, they needed some form of steady cash flow. This is where mobile and social games came in to help the company. With the use of games that required payment to play for certain periods of time and items that could be acquired with cash, Square Enix began using social games as a reliable way to make profits, according to Wada.

In addition to it being a low-risk plan, it allowed Square Enix to continue working on high-end new IP development. This business model that allows them to no longer rely on the sales of physical games, was created by Wada and is still being used by Square Enix, as they continue working on next-gen titles.

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/01/28...ss-model-came/
http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999905/20140127032/

[6souls]

FFVII & FFXII could get HD remakes..

Final Fantasy series producer Yoshinori Kitase, who also served as director on Final Fantasy VII, has once again commented on the prospect of a remake of that game, in a talk with Eurogamer.

According to Kitase, “staff availability and budget” are two of the biggest obstacles that prevent the remake from being greenlit, but there’s also another barrier in its way—Kitase’s own motivation to work on such a project.

“Even if I casually say I would like to do that, because it would be a huge project I would have to motivate myself to the level that I really am prepared to take on this huge responsibility,” Kitase said.

He continued: “I don’t know if those three things will happen simultaneously. It has to tick lots of very big boxes. I won’t rule out the possibility, but it would take a lot to make it happen. But should I ever take it on, it would have to be the biggest project I’ve done. My life work. So I would have to be as highly motivated as that to end up with something I’m very happy with. It’s a huge thing for me.”

Kitase also briefly touched upon the idea of an HD remastered version of Final Fantasy XII, saying that he isn’t aware of any such plans at Square Enix at the moment.

“It depends on the team who created 12,” Kitase said. “If they think it’s a good idea they might opt for it.”

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/02/17...sy-vii-remake/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ntasy-7-remake

[Corrderio]

Where's the FF9 love, SE?

[AoE]

I'd rather see a FF8 remake before FF7 to be honest because there's way less to fuck up.

[Julian]

Please no

[Gokulo]

Forget about the silly dreams for now, but XII needs to happen so we get Zodiac officially ;/