Currently Known Issues

[Dotsudoku]

The issue is plain and simple - granted that they had previously explained their reasoning for enmity adjustments and pets were not mentioned at all there is no reason to believe that such a change was intentional if it was so significant and yet not mentioned at all

...If they felt the kind of tactless relationship melee and mage players shared was inappropriate, I don't see it as a stretch to assume that they intended for beastmaster to put a little more effort into balancing the solo-scene a bit...

They didn't specify players, either. They simply acknowledged that there were issues with enmity in general. It's significant because you perceive it to be: they didn't adjust summoner in a special way.

And again, why you feel as if any job is entitled to be able to solo DC+ enemies is beyond me. We spent most of the game having that not be the case for most jobs.

[Obsidian]

fuck you. you think we don't know its not a bug?

its an unintended side effect. and a problem.

Well A) personal problems aren't what the Currently Known Issues posts are for a B) a problem for who? For a long while pet jobs were the only ones soloing and you didn't see DRKs and WARs bitching that anything was broken. It's rather obnoxious of you or anyone else to presume that the results of the enmity tweaking are unintentional just because you can't BP with impunity any more. They've already said they'll talk more about enmity specifically at the end of the month, so running around screaming HOLY SHIT SUMMONER IS BROKEN in every thread at every opportunity is completely unnecessary and incredibly annoying.

Furthermore, I can't help but laugh at Summoners wasting this opportunity to shine a light on how bad avatar DPS is (because this is the issue) and are instead bitching about their Rages and Wards being too much VE/CE. Good plan, guys.

Edit: Wow, I should've refreshed the page first.

[NynJa]

Summoner doesn't steal hate from anything or anyone in group situations, which is all the devs are responsible for preserving based on it.. you know, being a group-oriented class

And funny you should mention pets as a whole: I don't see what's so unlikely about their having toned BST's relative invulnerability down a tad. BST pre-Snarl was a completely different animal(har). It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were perfectly fine with balancing their enmity management a bit

Snarl was a fucking stupid ability that should have been on a 10-20 minute timer, not 30 seconds.

[Spira]

It's not a personal problem if every SMN can feel its effects. And not simply in solo situations. Just because its veiled in a party situation doesn't mean it's not there.

Doesn't stop us from taking it personally of course. Who doesn't love to bitch about SE?


...as to the point that they didn't specify players, OBVIOUSLY general player enmity changes were meant for fellowship npcs. >_> srsly now

[Shenrien]

I hope they also address the issue with barspells only lasting 3 minutes rather 5.. that's kinda annoy >_>;.

[Dotsudoku]

It's not a personal problem if every SMN can feel its effects. And not simply in solo situations. Just because its veiled in a party situation doesn't mean it's not there.

What does this even mean? "Just because it isn't an issue in a party situation, doesn't mean it isn't an issue in a party situation"?

[Dotsudoku]

Furthermore, I can't help but laugh at Summoners wasting this opportunity to shine a light on how bad avatar DPS is (because this is the issue) and are instead bitching about their Rages and Wards being too much VE/CE. Good plan, guys.

And this more than anything. You're wasting a justified petition for specific job adjustments on a fix for a symptom of a much larger problem. Demand that they adjust your avatars' pitiful DPS, not that they slap a band-aid on you so you can continue to spend four hours soloing anything relevant

[Tarage]

And this more than anything. You're wasting a justified petition for specific job adjustments on a fix for a symptom of a much larger problem. Demand that they adjust your avatars' pitiful DPS, not that they slap a band-aid on you so you can continue to spend four hours soloing anything relevant

We have. Many times. They don't agree.

We have to take what we can get. We got hit with a nerf. Maybe it was unintentional, maybe it wasn't, but it was still a nerf. And I'm damn well going to raise a stink about it because we didn't need a nerf.

What does this even mean? "Just because it isn't an issue in a party situation, doesn't mean it isn't an issue in a party situation"?

He means that just because it's hidden by other things doesn't mean the issue isn't there. It can still crop up under the right circumstances.

Sometimes I think you are arguing just to argue.

[Spira]

And this more than anything. You're wasting a justified petition for specific job adjustments on a fix for a symptom of a much larger problem. Demand that they adjust your avatars' pitiful DPS, not that they slap a band-aid on you so you can continue to spend four hours soloing anything relevant

If you bothered to read elsewhere, you'd know that SMN would gladly rally for such a change. The major distinction is that SMN DPS has always been terrible by virtue of the design on the BP system and isn't something that suddenly happened. In this sense, it's a lot more "working as intended" that what we have with enmity.


also, to add on to...

summoner is not a sanctioned solo class

And again, why you feel as if any job is entitled to be able to solo DC+ enemies is beyond me.

If it were not sanctioned to have solo functionality, they would not have designed entire quests for SMN premised entirely on soloing.

quests which I decided to try doing yesterday. It's a lot more awful than it used to be. The only thing that kept me alive was my Lv99 buffs and Destrier Berets Regen/Refresh

[Yugl]

Spira, can we use your maps for BG wiki coalition assignment pages?

[Spira]

go for it. i haven't updated in a while tho. will get to it soon

only thing that bugs me is if its not attributed lol.
maybe keep a source link so if its updated at least they know where to find it

[Dotsudoku]

He means that just because it's hidden by other things doesn't mean the issue isn't there. It can still crop up under the right circumstances.

What on earth are you trying to say? If an enmity issue is hidden by other things, it isn't an enmity issue..

[Jakson]

The SMN not getting the attention of the mob when he orders a BP because the avatar is attacking a mob that is already attacking someone else, and neither the avatar nor the SMN's hate (before or after) is great enough for the mob to change its target. The "hiding" is that, in a party, the aforementioned scenario is likely and wouldn't get noticed as being different from before enmity changes, even though nobody is complaining about enmity issues within a party, but rather with a solo SMN. The point, though, was that for so much of a SMN's time, soloing was a viable option (more or less); pointing out situations (like I just outlined) to devs and/or OF will most likely incite the response that it is a game based around grouping, and this brings us back to the initial reason why nobody wants/needs SMNs in most event parties - unless the event needs/wants PD, go as some other job, or come as SMN and do the one thing the job is good for. It just so happens that what would make SMN better in a party (higher DPS, with the side benefit of things like favors) would also benefit it as a soloer, and they probably don't want to be seen as promoting SMN's soloing capabilities as that is contrary to the intent of an MMO.

[Dotsudoku]

Which brings us full-circle to the place where someone explains why any job should feel entitled to be a proficient soloist. "We've always been able to" does not a valid argument make.

Summoner has minor roles it can fill, and still isn't as out of place as several other jobs -PUP, RDM, DRG, BST, and something else I'm probably forgetting- so there's really nothing special about the situation we're currently in.

The job could use major improvements, and as unlikely as it is that they'll be addressed anytime in the near future, incessantly whining about a fringe benefit that we tripped over several years ago that has never been particularly productive instead of focusing all of your attention on real issues isn't helping anyone.


Something about run-on sentences

[Tarage]

DRG sure as hell sees more action that SMN. What minor rolls can we fill? Ramuh-whoring? Alexander isn't nearly as useful anymore, and new content is being geared in such a way that soon he'll be useless too. Ultima burning? I'm actually curious to see if we could even hold hate anymore, given what they've done to us.

I understand you don't like bitching, but fuck man, what the hell else can we do? The official forum's SMN section is filled with ideas of how to fix the job. None of them have ever been commented on. Do you know how fucking long it took to get them to fix the "You cast a ward but the enemy you were attacking died so now you get to eat that timer" bug?

So don't fucking bitch at me about wanting what we had back. It's a lot more likely than anything new, because at least we can justify that we had it for years.

But do tell, what the hell are you doing to help, other than mouth off?

[Dotsudoku]

DRG is a horrible job without Ryunohige, at which point your damage becomes acceptable enough that you're worth keeping around for Angon. And marginalizing Shock Squall by referring to it as "Ramuh-whoring" doesn't make it any less handy to have around. The point is, your job isn't quite as bad as several others.

And I never claimed to be helping anyone, but my explaining why you're in the wrong is irritating nowhere near as many people as your whining in every thread on this website

[Obsidian]

Tons of suggestions? I see two on the first page, one of which is "blood pacts to buff the avatar" and the other which is "I don't feel special any more because of Accession." So, more blood pacts that are on a global cooldown, or reworking every single existing bloodpact, which are still on global cooldowns.

Edit: Woops, I missed the ineffective suggestion for tweaking Astral Flow's MP consumption. Doesn't solve the issue that my Wind Blades do more than my Aerial Blasts.

You want what you had back? Get in line behind Red Mages then, fella. RDMs had their solo capabilities deliberately neutered by content designed specifically to counter the tried and tested Gravity + Bio/Poison. It didn't even stop there; they nerfed the enmity values on spells RDMs were using to tank, and then they made 3/4s of the enemies in the game completely immune to the one thing RDM was supposed to do. Then they gave us Gravity II. And Temper. Actually, Temper is an excellent point of comparison here, because instead of actually addressing the problem with RDM (everything is immune to enfeebles), a few people complained that RDM melee sucks, so they gave us Temper. Instead of addressing the pathetic Avatar DPS and the bloodpact timers themselves, you're going to end up with slightly less CE/VE on Rages and Wards, which won't even solve the problem, because Avatar DPS is so bad that any action at all, up to and including sneezing, will pull the mob off your pet.

Acting like SMN is the only job with SE elbow-deep up its rectum is ridiculous, and wanting back something you never really had, equally so. If you're going to whine incessantly, and least whine about something productive.

[Robertfb]

While it's true that alot of jobs are already gotten to the point where they aren't used for any high end content, to argue that smn isn't in the same spot that say other jobs that have become marginalized is inaccurate, yes it's true that drg/pup/bst/rdm get no "must have" uses other then maybe one specialized use, smn has now fallen into that spot in regards to most high end content, honestly, outside of ADL, VW proccing and maybe legion (pre update), where was the last time smn was not considered a job that would have been better off being filled by some other job, just like rdm/bst/pup/drg?

While it might seem annoying that smns are bitching about how atm we're near useless on high end content both solo and general party use, when other jobs are in the same boat, it's no different then when rdms bitched about how enfeebling is near useless or how bsts bitched about how they have no real use in EG content, or drg bitching about lack of native attack buffs, or pup bitching about no real use in EG either.

Yes it's true that s/e didn't break anything and that we should bitch to s/e to fix avatar DPS instead of reverting back to shitty soloing, but do you honestly think that s/e is gonna listen and implement it when they have ignored the above job's bitching and allowed shit like additional effects not landing not ever be fixed? The fact that smn is now gone to the point of "go level something else useful" for both party/soloing is imo legitimate woe for smns.

[Dotsudoku]

Nobody is going to ask for a RDM, BST, PUP, or DRG over a SMN for organized content, and you just named three of the most popular events in the game as examples of how marginalized it is

And comparing SMN bitching about soloing to RDM, BST, DRG, or PUP bitching about being unable to perform their primary function is ridiculous

[Robertfb]

Nobody is going to ask for a RDM, BST, PUP, or DRG over a SMN for organized content, and you just named three of the most popular events in the game as examples of how marginalized it is

And comparing SMN bitching about soloing to RDM, BST, DRG, or PUP bitching about being unable to perform their primary function is ridiculous

First off, they were exceptions, not examples; second it's not a question of rdm/bst/pup/drg > smn in terms of use, it's a statement of rdm/bst/pup/drg/ with smn being added in terms of use for general content.

Third, how is rdm/bst/drg/pup not able to perform their primary function? rdm can still enfeeble in the game, the only reason it's not picked over another job is the enfeebling just isn't powerful enough to warrant players to use it over another job, is it cause we can't gravity all the things now and solo shit as if it were genbu with just bio all over again? Is bst fucking completely useless in terms of both solo/party use and not able to attack shit with pets, likewise with pup? While drg isn't as powerful as it should be compared to the other DDs, it can still function solo and can be used for party content that isn't hardcore.

The fact is that smn bitching about being made more useless when it already had little going for it is no different then those jobs bitching about the same thing being done to them, everyone is gonna bitch everytime either indirectly or directly their job is made less useful, it's only when there is no legitimate complaint that the bitching is then unwarranted and annoying. Yes it's true that smn should no longer be along with bst the king of soloing in shit like abyssea, but it also shouldn't be believed that it deserves to not be able to even function as a solo job when it already has limited party use.