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  1. #4321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Best to test this with the outside version, but if Formless Strikes is breath damage (Uncertain atm if breath or term ignoring), then maybe magic dmg will take care of the rest. In other words, you would be capping physical and breath with those two, but magic is untouched.

    I know some people had complaints with the idea because of the Matamata, but SE is hardly consistent with the Breath/Magic distinction.
    Using only formless strikes on him causes him to use bubble curtain, which increases his MDB (not MDT), and decreases the amount of damage formless does per hit. The reason why I'm fairly certain it's MDB and not MDT is because

    1. Mura SAM/Requiescat are unaffected
    2. It says it in the log
    3. Quick draw damage IS affected. (Nukes also)

    Breath damage is not affected by MDB, so I don't think formless can be considered breath damage. It's more like quick draw damage I guess, without being affected by magic attack--which is odd considering MDB affects it. There may be a static base magic attack that formless provides depending on how many merits you have.

    Edit: It's possible bubble curtain is increasing his -BDT as well I suppose, but it seems unlikely, as it does not increase his -MDT in any way.

  2. #4322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudox View Post
    In regards to RDM for Tojil: Are magian MACC staves required to reliably land debuffs or is a solid enfeeb/macc build, using Chatoyant staff, along with GEO's meva debuff and macc buff enough?
    Can land fine without, but you will not be macc capped.

  3. #4323
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    Multiple uses that builds resist is also a bigger problem with the Chatoyant staff.

  4. #4324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helel View Post
    Using only formless strikes on him causes him to use bubble curtain, which increases his MDB (not MDT), and decreases the amount of damage formless does per hit. The reason why I'm fairly certain it's MDB and not MDT is because
    You sure it's not something else? I only ask because as far as I know all other crabs get mdt instead of mdb from bubble curtain. Seems odd they'd change it for this

  5. #4325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helel View Post
    Using only formless strikes on him causes him to use bubble curtain, which increases his MDB (not MDT), and decreases the amount of damage formless does per hit. The reason why I'm fairly certain it's MDB and not MDT is because

    1. Mura SAM/Requiescat are unaffected
    2. It says it in the log
    3. Quick draw damage IS affected. (Nukes also)

    Breath damage is not affected by MDB, so I don't think formless can be considered breath damage. It's more like quick draw damage I guess, without being affected by magic attack--which is odd considering MDB affects it. There may be a static base magic attack that formless provides depending on how many merits you have.

    Edit: It's possible bubble curtain is increasing his -BDT as well I suppose, but it seems unlikely, as it does not increase his -MDT in any way.
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    You sure it's not something else? I only ask because as far as I know all other crabs get mdt instead of mdb from bubble curtain. Seems odd they'd change it for this
    A few points:
    1. Breath damage can be affected by MAB/MDB (See Nether Blast). The reason most say MAB/MDB doesn't affect the DMG is because the BLU version ignores the term.

    2. Could be MDT, but you then need to account for QD reduction. Some alternatives could be resist rate, Magic version of Damage Type (Typically, PDT and Damage Type multipliers are different; I didn't have enough evidence previously to show that magic dmg could use the Damage Type multiplier previously), or a combination of MDB and MDT.

    3. The Formless was tested to show MAB doesn't affect the ability. BGWiki says attacks can be resisted, but there's no detail about that.

  6. #4326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Best to test this with the outside version, but if Formless Strikes is breath damage (Uncertain atm if breath or term ignoring), then maybe magic dmg will take care of the rest. In other words, you would be capping physical and breath with those two, but magic is untouched.

    I know some people had complaints with the idea because of the Matamata, but SE is hardly consistent with the Breath/Magic distinction.
    Would be easy enough to test in ballista w/ breath-% gear; mechanics are diff there, so won't be able to math out how much dmg you should be taking, but just compare damage with and w/o breath dmg taken gear. If the dmg goes down, that would confirm it.

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    Yeah, I just don't have that much to begin with and you need a decent sample. Best to just find a mob that severely reduces BDT imo. I just don't know any that are currently soloable.

  8. #4328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Yeah, I just don't have that much to begin with and you need a decent sample. Best to just find a mob that severely reduces BDT imo. I just don't know any that are currently soloable.
    ZNM hydra?

  9. #4329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Yeah, I just don't have that much to begin with and you need a decent sample. Best to just find a mob that severely reduces BDT imo. I just don't know any that are currently soloable.
    There might be some normal mob type that no one has bothered to test bdt for yet... oh and in case anyone was wondering normal crab bubble curtain doesn't give BDT either. Aren't Hydras immune to breath dmg?

  10. #4330
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    Wyverns/Dragons might have BDT since armor made from their scales/skin offers BDT?

  11. #4331
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    You sure it's not something else? I only ask because as far as I know all other crabs get mdt instead of mdb from bubble curtain. Seems odd they'd change it for this
    As far as I know, it has to be MDB, otherwise QD would not be affected. It could be MDT and MDB combined, but I highly doubt that, as Requiescat is not affected. It literally says in the chat log that the mob gains magic def. boost as well, not shell, or whatever bubble curtain normally says. Scissor guard also says "protect" and not defense boost.

    Regardless, I think we can at least take away from this that formless is affected by MDB in some way, and MDT I assume, if the matama is any indication.

  12. #4332
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    streaming 2 more dakuwaqa now :D just won 1 :D

    prolly the easiest naakual delve NM i think once u got the distance >.>

  13. #4333
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    Any Geo's that can offer input on what you do during Tojil and other Naakuals? I was under the impression that full -DT gear and /Rdm would allow the Geo to be fairly self sufficient while in range. LS is wanting to take a different route that cuts one of the debuffs in favor of keeping Indi-Refresh on the mage party. Any input into how much the loss of Torpor, Frailty, or Langour would effect the fight?

  14. #4334
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    GEO is far from completely self sufficient when in range. Between addle, knockback, and the rate of luopan destruction (not to mention damage to yourself), your in-range GEO will definitely require attention to their HP. We usually leave this to the RDM, free slot in last PT, and BRDs. WHMs assist if they have the chance. If your fight is rather lengthy (before Oatixur kills), you may also require Refresh II, but this will be less an issue after the update.

    Languor is fairly pivotal for first clears, to the point where if it's down for too long, or even just at the wrong time, you're probably going to let a Lahar through. After you've gotten kills down to the 6 minute range, it starts to matter less if it's off for a bit. However, it does make it much easier to keep other enfeebles on (Silence, Paralyze II, Gravity II, Impact). Torpor is probably less necessary to remain on constantly, especially if your DD are able to gear for the accuracy discrepancy. If not, its importance rises dramatically, and you'll notice it very, very quickly. Frailty is obviously awesome to keep up as often as possible (and it's especially noticeable during Bolster), but you're allowed to let it drop.

  15. #4335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthars View Post
    streaming 2 more dakuwaqa now :D just won 1 :D

    prolly the easiest naakual delve NM i think once u got the distance >.>


    Yeah he's not bad. Went 1/3 last night after trying a few setups etc. We actually slept him around 14% to let a couple DDs unweak and rebuff for the final push.

    MNK/RUNx2, MNK/WAR x2, DRG, SAM

    DRG won the parse which was suprising. In the future I'd use MNK/RUN x2, Tsuru SAMx3 (or 2 and a DRK) DRG.

  16. #4336
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    the sam in my group went from decent last week before win to top dog with that GKT today

    fucking Samurai Enix all over again

    and the gkt also work for namas.... hax is still on even if ur weakened!!!

    our drg was nowhere near top... prolly because of /dnc

    mnks r doing the same region as tojil, around 230-250k damage (sam went from 230k to like 270k with katana)

    /run is definately not needed if sch geo nuked in safe distance (so u dont waste time running back) as soon as verve is executed

    but with 4x mnk/run, its kinda brain dead, you wont even realise the aura is up for like more than 3 sec

    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    Any Geo's that can offer input on what you do during Tojil and other Naakuals? I was under the impression that full -DT gear and /Rdm would allow the Geo to be fairly self sufficient while in range. LS is wanting to take a different route that cuts one of the debuffs in favor of keeping Indi-Refresh on the mage party. Any input into how much the loss of Torpor, Frailty, or Langour would effect the fight?
    well a normal efficient mage pt would be RDM SCH SCH GEO GEO and of course PLD.... DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE A GOOD GEARED RDM FOR TOJIL. Being able to silence/addle it entirely means you totally will have no problems with stuns because the number of stuns will be reduced drastically in the entire fight, thus letting you stun it for longer duration.

    rdm refresh is enough to keep MP up for both GEO, 2 stunner is enough if you safe SP for more reliable stuns(can use focalization) mid-end fights when charges r low/used up

    1 geo should be doing geo-languor and indi-focus, and the other geo-frality, indi torpor

    GEO will look after one another and should be enough. The geo doing languor/focus will help cure the geo in mob range. also remember to rotate your bolster for sch if you think the fight may drag slightly longer.

    eg. Geo A goes bolster languor/focus while Geo B does frailty/torpor. when Geo A bolster is down, geo B bolster and languor/focus, while Geo A goes in for frality/torpor

    not really needed but if you think your sch is slightly weak, or if the DDs r weak, these r some things u can do to buy an extra couple of mins for tojil

    as for dakuwaqa, playing safe would be 1 Geo doing refresh/torpor, and the other focus/languor even more MP to help cure melees because this fight is about staying alive. shark is weak and shouldnt need def down, but definately need eva down. because daku is water based? he seem to resist stun slower. Our usual fight is in the region of 10-12 mins for daku, playing extremely safe and still dont get resisted-stun that late.

  17. #4337
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    As far as formless strikes goes, MDB doesn't appear to hurt it and attacks definitely can't be resisted. My guess would be breath damage, if testing in brenner/ballista is acceptable then its extremely easy to get an answer, if not then one of the blue model hydras (except for the einherjar t3 one which has different mechanics to most others).

    Mura/Twilight scythe (Requiescat?) are a seperate form of damage.

  18. #4338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helel View Post
    As far as I know, it has to be MDB, otherwise QD would not be affected. It could be MDT and MDB combined, but I highly doubt that, as Requiescat is not affected. It literally says in the chat log that the mob gains magic def. boost as well, not shell, or whatever bubble curtain normally says. Scissor guard also says "protect" and not defense boost.

    Regardless, I think we can at least take away from this that formless is affected by MDB in some way, and MDT I assume, if the matama is any indication.
    That's why I was asking if you were sure something else hadn't lowered the QD dmg... like maybe just the mobs characteristics giving it mdb or maybe just resists. Hmmm different messages. Guess they do do different things. As far as matamata goes not completely sure since if you do physical for a bit both regular magical and breath dmg go up.

  19. #4339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    3. The Formless was tested to show MAB doesn't affect the ability. BGWiki says attacks can be resisted, but there's no detail about that.
    If you fight ahrimans in dynamis - xarc your attacks are severely resisted with formless on

  20. #4340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerji View Post
    If you fight ahrimans in dynamis - xarc your attacks are severely resisted with formless on
    TE statues also resist formless strike damage, pop'd it to kill a paladin that invincibled, went to the statue an was hitting for 3-4 damage, took it off killed it in next attack round.

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