Delve

[bechyni]

We did a couple more Tojils tonight and....FOUR.


Didn't even realize it could drop four of the same item.

[Classikmage]

We did a couple more Tojils tonight and....FOUR.


Didn't even realize it could drop four of the same item.

Grats but..... Where are the +2 'lixers? =(

[Rehn]

For a group that has not killed Tojil before, what would be the best approach to the fight?

Should we selectively stun certain TP moves, thus delaying the time it takes for him to approach the resist wall? Or just stun everything from the start and attempt to down him ASAP?

Should we expect to last longer than 10 minutes since we're not rocking senbaaks/oats??

Setup is pretty much what normal MNK-based groups would look like.

[ccl]

I doubt it would be that long if your melee are good, only 3 Oat(1rigor/1beaver) and upi drg was like 5-6min for us. I'd stun every tp move and silence it.

[Raistlinratt]

For a group that has not killed Tojil before, what would be the best approach to the fight?

Should we selectively stun certain TP moves, thus delaying the time it takes for him to approach the resist wall? Or just stun everything from the start and attempt to down him ASAP?

Should we expect to last longer than 10 minutes since we're not rocking senbaaks/oats??

Setup is pretty much what normal MNK-based groups would look like.

I doubt it would be that long if your melee are good, only 3 Oat(1rigor/1beaver) and upi drg was like 5-6min for us. I'd stun every tp move and silence it.

Not every group has the DD for this. I would say try it (you risk nothing trying the melee method) and parse your DDs. Make sure someone can parse and get everyone's damage. Then analyze the parse after you lose and figure out who is good, who needs to improve, and who should just swap to support job. Weapons really don't mean much if the DD using them aren't good (which was addressed by ccl's comment 'if your melee are good')

No offense, but a lot of people don't know a good DD from a meleeing brd. The problem a lot of groups are running into is their DPS are not strong enough. Just because he has rank 15s doesn't mean he's good!

my 2 cents.

[Vendog]

Can someone please answer my question from before.

[macross]

Vendog, i would just kill peiste instead, same KI. Strats should be posted here somewhere.

[Shenrien]

Blind it, stun Calcifying Mist, and you pretty much win with any proper zerg setup, GEO helps with M.Eva down on the NM and M.Acc up for the RDM / SCH.

[zephr]

Can anyone give me any pointers on my proposed 1st clear Tojil setup with RNG?

DRG DRG GEO GEO BRD SCH
RNG RNG PLD BRD WHM COR
RNG RNG PLD BRD WHM COR

99Anni x1, 99Yoichi x3, 2 DRG for fulltime Angon (augmented AF2+2 hands on both), Frailty/Languor/Torpor/Focus (Take turns Bolstering Frailty), 2 PLD for bouncing hate between them (Are 2 WHM even needed?), SCH/BLM stunning Lahar/Meteor/Kaustra + dispelling when needed, Dia2+Light Shot x2 from COR. RNG DRK SAM Regain rolls, 2 Prelude and 4 Minuets. Blocking Peiste/Turtle/Eft or Raptor.

I am afraid damage will fall short because of only having 4 RNGs, but Motenten's spreadsheet (Target: Delve boss) gives me more DPS from fulltime Angon than from replacing a DRG with a RNG, even at 80% efficiency (since RNG isn't an auto-attack job, it relies on player temperament and as such I base DPS on the lowest common denominator). All RNGs have max Snapshot/precast sets, combat merits and appropriate merits, there is no skimping on anything.

I know I am overthinking this so feel free to laugh at me, but EU/NA on Cerberus are having a hard time getting past the wall. Only JPs have cleared Tojil at this point, to my knowledge.

[Damane]

why 2 plds? i dont know your setup is efficient only in the piercing state. thr longer the battle takes the more likely you aregonna hit stun resists. i just dont see this setup winning due to lack of dmg. rngs will have to hold back at some point with their tiny hp pool and paper armor.

we got it down with 5 NMs+boss to 15% mind you none of us has a boss weapon only delve.

mnk mnk sam whm brd cor
mnk mnk drg whm brd cor
rdm pld geo geo sch sch

[timboly]

Not every group has the DD for this. I would say try it (you risk nothing trying the melee method) and parse your DDs. Make sure someone can parse and get everyone's damage. Then analyze the parse after you lose and figure out who is good, who needs to improve, and who should just swap to support job. Weapons really don't mean much if the DD using them aren't good (which was addressed by ccl's comment 'if your melee are good')

No offense, but a lot of people don't know a good DD from a meleeing brd. The problem a lot of groups are running into is their DPS are not strong enough. Just because he has rank 15s doesn't mean he's good!

my 2 cents.

Looking back through the thread, it looks like the consensus is that each DD will need to do around 550-600 DPS for Tojil. Is this correct?

[Motenten]

To beat Tojil in an 8 minute fight, each of 6 DDs have to average 450 DPS over the course of the entire fight; for a 10 minute fight, they need to average 360. Because of the way the fight is broken up in damage phases, penalized periods need to average out with bonus periods, and non-mnks (who won't have Formless for the magic phase) need to average out with mnks. I'd say 400 DPS is probably the minimum you want to average in order to win, though you definitely want to aim for 500+ (a 7:15 or less fight).

[ccl]

Can anyone give me any pointers on my proposed 1st clear Tojil setup with RNG?

DRG DRG GEO GEO BRD SCH
RNG RNG PLD BRD WHM COR
RNG RNG PLD BRD WHM COR

99Anni x1, 99Yoichi x3, 2 DRG for fulltime Angon (augmented AF2+2 hands on both), Frailty/Languor/Torpor/Focus (Take turns Bolstering Frailty), 2 PLD for bouncing hate between them (Are 2 WHM even needed?), SCH/BLM stunning Lahar/Meteor/Kaustra + dispelling when needed, Dia2+Light Shot x2 from COR. RNG DRK SAM Regain rolls, 2 Prelude and 4 Minuets. Blocking Peiste/Turtle/Eft or Raptor.

I am afraid damage will fall short because of only having 4 RNGs, but Motenten's spreadsheet (Target: Delve boss) gives me more DPS from fulltime Angon than from replacing a DRG with a RNG, even at 80% efficiency (since RNG isn't an auto-attack job, it relies on player temperament and as such I base DPS on the lowest common denominator). All RNGs have max Snapshot/precast sets, combat merits and appropriate merits, there is no skimping on anything.

I know I am overthinking this so feel free to laugh at me, but EU/NA on Cerberus are having a hard time getting past the wall. Only JPs have cleared Tojil at this point, to my knowledge.

If going the rng way, I'd suggest at least 6rng to 100% it, it can be done with 5 or 4 but you'd need 4 exceptional rng.


Best rng way would be


pld pld brd whm drg sch

rngX4 brd cor
rngX4 brd cor

only need to stun meteor/kaustra, if you can't gather 8 rng, can replace 2-3 rng by drk and drg for better chaos roll/more angon.

[Jem]

It really shouldn't but it still amazes and dumbfounds me that people are not capable of pulling the required DPS for a Tojil zerg. I was pulling ~650-700 DPS with mistakes as a R2 Bereaver DRK. Stuff like Oatixurs and Senbaak should obviously smash that (I have Senbaak but haven't used it on Tojil yet)

There is an absolute shit ton of leeway on the DPS check.


EDIT: You missed a GEO out of that set-up Ccl. I'd probably advise something like

PLD PLD GEO WHM BRD DRG
RNG RNG ??? WHM BRD COR (DRG or DRK or RNG in the ??? slot)
RNG RNG RNG RNG BRD COR

Since you're only stunning Meteor/Kaustra you can just have the DRK or GEO do it without risk of running into resist issues (I landed stuns fine as DRK when doing this way)

Or you could just go with Ccl's strat with a GEO in the SCH slot and hope that your RNG's never pull hate on any of the NM's

[Tymon]

why 2 plds? i dont know your setup is efficient only in the piercing state. thr longer the battle takes the more likely you aregonna hit stun resists. i just dont see this setup winning due to lack of dmg. rngs will have to hold back at some point with their tiny hp pool and paper armor.

we got it down with 5 NMs+boss to 15% mind you none of us has a boss weapon only delve.

mnk mnk sam whm brd cor
mnk mnk drg whm brd cor
rdm pld geo geo sch sch

care to elaborate on the BRDs and GEO?

8 songs? Which GEO spells? I assumed you timed out, but how long were you fighting Tojil? Did you wipe to it?

Quetz is having a similar issue to Cerberus. I'm working on a group but I was pretty much dead sure that it was implausible to MNK it down without at least 1, maybe 2 Oatixurs.

Don't really have the RNG to realistically do it either without collaborating (which no one seems to want to do here) so.. yeah.

[Fake]

It is absolutely beatable by rigor mnks and bereaver drks only.

[zard1977]

If doing the melee method, I would suggest replacing the rdm with a 3rd sch. 3 Schs can keep stuns up indefinately (stunning every tp move and spell) and hence removing the need for any dispels/silence etc. Went to several successful PUG (JP) runs and the only reason a run can fail is due to missed stun (lahar) resulting in a few dead melees. Dead melee -> lower overall dps -> longer fight -> stun resist.
8 songs are 2 marches, 2 madrigals, 4 minuets. Geo spells are def/eva/mag eva down and mag acc up I think.

Suggested melee to bring are 4 MNKs (2 in each pt) at least for full-time mantra (in addition to FS 100 fists at start) during boss. DRK for boosted chaos and DRG for angon/spirit surge jump are good to bring along as well.

[Fake]

2 sch can already stun every spell/tp move (thats the entire basis for how mnk groups have been winning..). If you're going to bring a 3rd sch instead of a rdm then they should be subbing /rdm.

[dasva]

Why double march? No hastes or embravas?

[Jem]

We give SV 2x March + Haste + Embrava. It's horribly inefficient but doesn't matter in the slightest!

Actually, we might drop one of those marches for Scherzo now that I think about it...