Delve

[Cairthenn]

Didn't hold up beyond Formless not causing DT for the first phase (whereas non-formless did). We're trying a few other things, since we can manage the win regardless if we don't get the first DT.

[Ramzii]

Not sure if people have been doing this, but I'd highly recommend Murasamemaru for the last ~25% (possibly 50?) of Muyingwa. Was getting 1.5-2.5k Shoha's consistent with some occasional 4k+ spikes (no QA/TA gear, not sure what triggered this.) I noticed PDT fluctuating (I think) in the last 25%. I'd have long stretches where my melee hits would do only between 15-30, and then other stretches of 30-60. Any ideas?

[Cairthenn]

Definitely stuck with this pattern:



Only got DT on first round when MNKs didn't use Formless, haven't gotten it a single time when they do. The others I'm now-stumped on.

Good news is that we've got 5/5 + Bee down reasonably without RNGs.

[Helel]

If anything, 25-50 would be no piercing, not 50-75. There's certainly no damage reduction until low hp. 50-75 could be slashing perhaps, or magic. Regardless, RNG+melee method is so easy/fast that the mechanics don't really matter, sort of like Tojil's aura. It's just a 3m fight unless something goes horribly wrong. I guess there are a lot of people who don't know how to play RNG correctly though, so it can be a challenge finding 3 of them. They don't need relics either, contrary to popular belief. Bee dies too fast to pull hate.

[Terravcota]

Did Tojil a couple nights ago and it was Wind -> Light -> Dark -> Water for us. Pulled and fought on Windsday, if it matters.

[Therin]

If anything, 25-50 would be no piercing, not 50-75. There's certainly no damage reduction until low hp. 50-75 could be slashing perhaps, or magic. Regardless, RNG+melee method is so easy/fast that the mechanics don't really matter, sort of like Tojil's aura. It's just a 3m fight unless something goes horribly wrong. I guess there are a lot of people who don't know how to play RNG correctly though, so it can be a challenge finding 3 of them. They don't need relics either, contrary to popular belief. Bee dies too fast to pull hate.

Well, the theory was that doing a certain damage type within a phase increases -DT for the NEXT phase. We used RNGs and hit a complete brick wall at 50% because RNG was our only damage (pretty much) within the first 50%. We had myself on WAR (mostly tanking) and a MNK who used Formless for the first 25%. When I say brick wall, I mean they were doing 8k+ WSes and then at 50%, couldn't break 1k. We ended up fighting for 13 minutes and timed out at 23%, and about 10 of those minutes were below 50%.

My Upheavals went from 3-4k average to 80-300 damage each.. it was ridiculous.

I hate this bee.

[Cairthenn]

I'm pretty sure accidentally running into ~90% PDT matters, especially if you're unfamiliar with the 5 NMs, because they are definitely the worst of any zone.

Beyond that, given how the game has been played in recent time, I know we have melee around who know exactly what they're doing. RNG is much less available and those who have it haven't done it time and time again. Not that a melee strat is technically more accessible (two Tsurumaru/Murasamemaru is basically required), but it is an available option, and narrowing down what causes these DT jumps probably makes the overall run much more laughable.

[Fake]

The Tsurumarus aren't an issue, any group vying for 5 NM + Bee will realistically have shark done since its so much easier. Mura is becoming an issue again, majority of the cells that came from bonanza have been used up and uptala shouts are as rare as they have ever been.

That said, RNG is no worse than any melee job to gear up to a decent standard and you only need shark win + plasm gun to make it workable. 99 Annihilator is nice but in terms of the bee, rngs pulling hate is of little consequence because it can't move more than tiny amount between attacks/tp/spells.

[Cairthenn]

Actually, there are many groups doing Bee before Shark because of its perceived ease (bee is if you don't get DT, zone is not), mostly coming from the discussions in this forum, so I figured it was worth noting.

[Fake]

Based on BG alone I haven't seen any LS's who have successfully 5NM'd Bee that hadn't already done shark, unless I'm missing something. The margin for error on shark run is on par with, if not greater than, tojil where the margin for error on a Bee run is currently significantly lower (based on reported clear times).

[Cairthenn]

I'm aware of this, I was just reporting something that I know personally to be happening. There's even JP LS on Fenrir who are trying bee before shark for whatever reason. I think it's a terrible idea, but it's happening in five groups that I know of at the least.

[Tymon]

Let's say I want to cut corners and just get a win with 3 beads on the bee then, if I can take 3 99 Annihilators and the typical MNK SAM(or DRK) DRG can I expect a realistically simple win?

Maybe even 4 guns.

[Byrthnoth]

Yes. I don't want to jinx it, but you'd have a really hard time losing with that setup. Make your rangers eat Sushi even if they don't need it, because you aren't going to be running out of time.

[Tymon]

If we lose, I certainly won't be posting about it on here.

Do you stun everything? Anything? I know the stuff you would be stunning on the NMs is irrelevant since those NMs will be beaded out.

[Cairthenn]

This is what we stun:

<abilities>Fire Break, Orthopterror, Smouldering Swarm, Benumbing Blaze, Booming Bombination, Vespine Hurricane, Incisive Denouement, Tegmina Buffet, Droning Whirlwind, Cimicine Discharge, Incisive Apotheosis, Stinger Volley, Blackout</abilities>

<spells>Breakga, Slowga, Paralyga, Kaustra, Dispelga, Meteor</spells>

[Tymon]

Wonderful. Appreciated.

What the hell casts Kaustra and Meteor in there? I didn't see that on the bee's spell list.

[Arthars]

if u doing rng setup just for the win, then all u need to stun is the 2 incisive moves that only accessable during aura.....

2 PLD to tank bee and rng pew pew away

dia spam down the aura and u dont even need to stun anything

wont take more than 6-7 mins with new bullets now and like someone said above, just eat all range acc cos u arent going to run out of time

also bee got the most useless equipments baring the wing which used to be expensive but now become cheap due to bonanza

most people just do shark/tojil for easy win for plasm than bee... even tho all 3 is easy, ceizek is just annoying by nature cos of their NMs and evasion message

[Tymon]

I'm just organizing the bee before the shark because I have the beads and want to have an Upukirex because I hate my DRG and have to use it.

I guess the 3 melee will essentially be doing as much as they can, and their death is more or less irrelevant to the end result as long as the PLD is available to tank it?

[Cairthenn]

I don't know, it was in the XML I had. I didn't question it.

[Squah]

He isn't doing an all RNG setup, he's doing a hybrid setup. You could get away with not stunning a bit but should definitely stun the ST20 (Stinger Volley?).

And I dunno what you talkin bout Willis. Both Nahtirah pieces are stellar and only serve to get (way) better next patch. Also, weren't Delveboss mats rank 2 prizes? There weren't exactly a lot of winners, almost no market change on wings on Bismarck.


Edit: @tymon (can't quote and make it look nice, on phone) If the PLD is available, have him stand back and be the RNG decoy. Have them line up in an I 15' or more away, IIRC decoy shot plants hate on whoever is closest (so the RNG in back still puts hate on PLD, not the RNG in front of him. PLD can toss out extra cures and such, too.