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  1. #61

    I assumed the Gordeus was the same kind of device as the Astral Candy just used to power the big version of Alexander.

    I still don't see any actual connection between the Lightbringer and ToAU tho.

  2. #62
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    I wanna say gordeus and LB came from sandy a long time ago and gordeus was sent to aht urghan for research, but gordeus is inexplicably tied to alexander and that has long historical roots with olduum and alzadaal. Somehow the two relics were separated and ended up on different continents but they appear to share a common purpose as being related to alexander somehow. Gorgeus seemingly is the "core" of alexander and the astral candescenes seem to be like fragements of his power or something. I'd be inclined to say that the AC's are just mystical generators but the "astral wind" implies energy emits from the AC's from the astral plane(where avatars live). The AC's were taken from the salvage chariot rooms but i forgot what happened to them. One obviously resides in al zhabi but i forgot if the empire secretly stashed them or if they were destroyed, or what.

    SE needs to tie up the loose ends or print a book in english before this mmo ends because the storyline is actually quite good, aside from it being PG-13 where main characters pretty much never die.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    I wanna say gordeus and LB came from sandy a long time ago and gordeus was sent to aht urghan for research, but gordeus is inexplicably tied to alexander and that has long historical roots with olduum and alzadaal. Somehow the two relics were separated and ended up on different continents but they appear to share a common purpose as being related to alexander somehow. Gorgeus seemingly is the "core" of alexander and the astral candescenes seem to be like fragements of his power or something. I'd be inclined to say that the AC's are just mystical generators but the "astral wind" implies energy emits from the AC's from the astral plane(where avatars live). The AC's were taken from the salvage chariot rooms but i forgot what happened to them. One obviously resides in al zhabi but i forgot if the empire secretly stashed them or if they were destroyed, or what.

    SE needs to tie up the loose ends or print a book in english before this mmo ends because the storyline is actually quite good, aside from it being PG-13 where main characters pretty much never die.
    3 of the other plinths are in the beastman strongholds (visible during battles to reclaim the Candescence), I think 1 is still in Nyzul.

    Dunno what happened to the Candescences, I wanna say they were spread around to other battlefronts in the Empire but I don't remember specifically.

  4. #64
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    So what we know about Lb is only sandorian royal family can draw it amd zilart know of it and disseminated lies to shamonde about it. It could be an infused magicite weapon like the bow of light, but always thought magecite. But it also seems like the zilart bros knew about it but knew they couldnt draw it so they just sabotaged tavnazia perhaps.

  5. #65
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    Also the orc general says something like "We Orc no like sword. Sword bring orc great pain. You seal sword maybe orc forget hate. Someday maybe live together. " Orcs may have a past with the blade, perhaps it chooses/curses a bloodline at some point and it shifted from orcs to elvaan, but we wont know till they talk about elvaan homeland.

  6. #66
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    Might have some connection to the Orcs burning the World Tree.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    unless the Alzadaal were actually Zilart
    There was a time when I believed emperor Alzadaal to be a runaway Zilart who founded an empire in the near east.
    His name was originally written as "Al'zadaal" which looks pretty zilartian.
    Alas it was since then transliterated to Alzadaal and honestly that kind of technology doesn't really look very zilartian to me.
    (altough they could explain that if they really wanted to).

    tl;dr
    No, I don't think Alzadaal was a zilart.

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    They built a telepoint predating Horutoto in the middle of nowhere. How is that not Zilart technology?

    I mean, along with Ra'kaznar that's now two expansions somebody's decided can't be related to the Zilart on the basis of not "looking Zilart". Maybe appearance is a bad way to determine Zilartness.

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    The telepoint is Olduum. Alzadaal came much later. Though their tech does feel ridiculously out of place for any of the 5 races, even 900 years later.

    I just remembered that Esha'ntarl told Jabbos to help the Moblins search for the true iron colossus. And she was roaming the world doing who knows what for like 10,000 years. Plus I don't see why other Zilart/Kuluu couldn't have somehow survived, blended into societies, and influenced things.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Assman View Post
    The telepoint is Olduum. Alzadaal came much later. Though their tech does feel ridiculously out of place for any of the 5 races, even 900 years later.

    I just remembered that Esha'ntarl told Jabbos to help the Moblins search for the true iron colossus. And she was roaming the world doing who knows what for like 10,000 years. Plus I don't see why other Zilart/Kuluu couldn't have somehow survived, blended into societies, and influenced things.
    Ah right, totally forgot those were two separate civilizations.

  11. #71
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    I'm not sure what the general infatuation is about with the "EVERYTHING IS ZILART". There can be more than one ancient civilization, in fact there's nothing indicating that Ra'Kaznar is even the machination of an ancient civilization to begin with. Nothing about Ra'Kaznar is even remotely indicative of Zilartian influence besides the name if you strain really hard and are extremely high strung on the Zilartification of every construct that isn't obviously built by the five mortal races, unless we still want to say that the Zilart are the only ones who invented elevators and magic barriers and are the only race/entity capable of using commas.

    inb4 "Hades is an ancient Zilart soul trapped in Ra'Kaznar who wants to regain dominion over his palace and we need to bring magicite and something about teleporters and memoria d'la stona" or other such theories

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Assman View Post
    The telepoint is Olduum. Alzadaal came much later. Though their tech does feel ridiculously out of place for any of the 5 races, even 900 years later.

    I just remembered that Esha'ntarl told Jabbos to help the Moblins search for the true iron colossus. And she was roaming the world doing who knows what for like 10,000 years. Plus I don't see why other Zilart/Kuluu couldn't have somehow survived, blended into societies, and influenced things.
    Yes, and that's exactely why I was terribly fascinated by the idea of Emperor Al'zadaal being a survivor Zilart. (can't deny I have a bias about Zilarts, loved their presence in the story).

    It's just that the name format was the only practical thing confirming that hypothesys, and with that gone we're left with nothing but our own mental jerking =/


    @Prothescar
    Of course there could be multiple ancient civilizations. But that would be kinda a retcon.
    Not like there haven't been 9000 ones already, but still...
    I mean, Zilart were the "chosen" race. They were part of the original plan of the gods, before Altana "created" the other 5 races.
    We don't know of any other race, aside monster ones.
    Also, maybe it's just me, but Zilarts could be a very nice and already existing linking bridge between different stories, instead of complicated and too much artificial/forced other explanations.
    It kinda makes sense that Zilarts did more than we found out so far, it's perfectly coherent with the story we already know without them having to invent particularly creative retcons.

  13. #73
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    Where do you think Hades came from? How do you know that he/his people didn't construct Ra'Kaznar? It's become evident that Hades/whatever forces he controls/control him are extremely powerful, possibly (extremely likely) more powerful than any Zilart we've ever met.

  14. #74
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    This is why we needed the Vana'diel Tribune

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    I'm not sure what the general infatuation is about with the "EVERYTHING IS ZILART". There can be more than one ancient civilization
    Not without contradicting everything explained about the origin of the 5 races from vanilla through CoP?

  16. #76
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    Alien races coming from another dimension/timeline!!one!
    I mean, if they really wanted they could totally justify that, but it would feel like a big and forced retcon, for my tastes at least.

    The "Ra'kaznar manufatured by demons" theory I like better than the "ancient non-zilart civilization" one.
    But it kinda makes you wonder where does that fit in the whole scenario with Altana+Promathia omniscent creator gods, and where the fuck were the people "trying to save the world from the emptiness" when the Hades menace rose up?
    What were the Terrestrial avatars or all the other beings who swore to protect Vana'diel doing, as a single hume and his army of 11 loyal people were fighting against a being powerful such as Hades?

  17. #77

    I think we can generally assume that all of the non-zilart "ancient" civilizations were basically groups of the 5 races that had lived on the other continents.

    The 5 races weren't even necessarily indigenous to the middle lands, although the only one we know to be explicitly foreign are Mithra (coming from the southern continent/archipelago). I remember some of the histories describing the different races as "arriving" on Mindartia/Quon and settling there, implying that they came from somewhere else.

    The Meltdown happened, what, 10,000 years before the game takes place? And recorded history only goes back 800 years, plenty of time and space for civilizations to rise and fall after the Zilart/Kuluu were gone but before the current era began.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    I think we can generally assume that all of the non-zilart "ancient" civilizations were basically groups of the 5 races that had lived on the other continents.

    The 5 races weren't even necessarily indigenous to the middle lands, although the only one we know to be explicitly foreign are Mithra (coming from the southern continent/archipelago). I remember some of the histories describing the different races as "arriving" on Mindartia/Quon and settling there, implying that they came from somewhere else.

    The Meltdown happened, what, 10,000 years before the game takes place? And recorded history only goes back 800 years, plenty of time and space for civilizations to rise and fall after the Zilart/Kuluu were gone but before the current era began.
    The oldest piece of ancient technology we can say for certain came from one of the 5 races is the weight plates of the Quicksand Caves, which appear more magical than mechanical, and those were probably developed by researching the Zilart ruins they're built near. If any race were going to make some kind of technological super-civilization in those millenia since the meltdown it'd have been the Galka, what with the Talekeeper essentially eliminating the possibility of just wiping out everyone who knew the tech. But they didn't, they wandered around the desert and invented the scale before being murdered by ants.

    I would say that even now, the technological capabilities of the 5 races working together are less than the Zilart and they've had 600 years since discovering magic, again from Zilart (well, Kuluu) ruins. What chance did ancient groups have? Especially when they were implied to be nomadic and xenophobic?

  19. #79

    Considering we don't know anything about the civilizations on the other continents, kinda hard to say.

    As far as we know, the Zilart never went beyond the middle lands, and they didn't really have much reason to. The crags were all located there and what with the hive mind desire to re-open the gate to paradise I don't see why they would have.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    As far as we know, the Zilart never went beyond the middle lands, and they didn't really have much reason to. The crags were all located there and what with the hive mind desire to re-open the gate to paradise I don't see why they would have.
    It was never explained, but I always assumed that the Far East where Tenzen was from must of had crags of some kind. How else would their land be ravaged by the Emptiness? And if it had crags, then Zilart/Kuluu must of been present at one time or another. Then again, it was said time and again that the crags supplied power to the 5th crystal in order to open the gates of paradise, and there were only 5 mother crystals for the crags. So maybe less of Emptiness in Far East = crags, and more of how was the Emptiness in the Far East without crags or mother crystals?

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