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  1. #81
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    There was a time when I believed emperor Alzadaal to be a runaway Zilart who founded an empire in the near east.
    His name was originally written as "Al'zadaal" which looks pretty zilartian.
    Alas it was since then transliterated to Alzadaal and honestly that kind of technology doesn't really look very zilartian to me.
    (altough they could explain that if they really wanted to).

    tl;dr
    No, I don't think Alzadaal was a zilart.
    Er, yes? I'm of the opinion Alzadaal is unlikely to be Zilart, but a much better case could be made for Olduum. That's why I said
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    unless the Alzadaal were actually Zilart, which is incredibly unlikely
    I could've sworn there was evidence that Alzadaal is the name of an Aht Urghan Emperor.

    As for Ra'Kaznar, it's obviously Odin, I mean c'mon. Demons? Darkness-elementally aligned? Pact with the Devil? O D I N. That'd be my bet among the "obvious FFXI handwaving" plots.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    It was never explained, but I always assumed that the Far East where Tenzen was from must of had crags of some kind. How else would their land be ravaged by the Emptiness? And if it had crags, then Zilart/Kuluu must of been present at one time or another. Then again, it was said time and again that the crags supplied power to the 5th crystal in order to open the gates of paradise, and there were only 5 mother crystals for the crags. So maybe less of Emptiness in Far East = crags, and more of how was the Emptiness in the Far East without crags or mother crystals?
    My memory is hazy but pretty sure that was explained at one point in cop. The crystals slowly started to drain when zilart in Delkfutt's woke up, very slowly but surely the emptiness began to manifest. The far east felt the effects first due to the fact they were the furthest point from the 5 crystals.

    Think the best analogy I think was said was a puddle drying up, far east resided on the shore edges so saw the emptiness first. Areas around the crystals got warped later on due to the draining from the reactivation attempt at end of rotz, it left a immediate void of crystal energy around the crystals allowing emptiness to fill in around so to speak.

    Also I'm going to go with Hades is just the Odin counterpart from whatever dimension they come from.

  3. #83
    Old Odin
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    the Zilart might have had different nations/races too. Just because we found the main capital city of one nation of Zilart, doesnt rule out that there was another one. The meltdown didnt extinguish all Zilarts and Kuluu as we have seen. The Olduum ruins could be Zilart too, and that Zilart race was extinguished when Ragnarok hit when they used Alexander. Ra'kaznaar could be Zilart technology as well. Something tells me that Ra'kaznaar was rather a prison made from the Zilart for a rather powerfull Being (Hades) and to hold other powerfull beings captured (Naakuals, the white Dragon etc.)

  4. #84

    The Zilart were a hive mind population, it just doesn't really "fit" to me that some would just break off and make some empire in BFE, much less why they would mess around with Alexander/Odin. For that matter wouldn't Alex/Odin still be "asleep" with the other Celestials anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    I could've sworn there was evidence that Alzadaal is the name of an Aht Urghan Emperor.
    Now that you mention it this does sound familiar, I wanna say that Galka technician said something to that effect in one cutscene or another.

  5. #85
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    The Zilart were a hive mind population, it just doesn't really "fit" to me that some would just break off and make some empire in BFE, much less why they would mess around with Alexander/Odin. For that matter wouldn't Alex/Odin still be "asleep" with the other Celestials anyway?


    Now that you mention it this does sound familiar, I wanna say that Galka technician said something to that effect in one cutscene or another.
    why would alex and odin be asleep, wasnt the meltdown/opening of the gates of paradise accompanied by a big battle from Bahamut himself, that wanted to stop the Zilartian of the middle lands at all costs?

  6. #86

    Alex and Odin are celestials that would have been in slumber beyond the gate before the Zilart tried to open it, which was when the Kuluu and the Dawnmaidens sabotaged the crystal line causing the meltdown and awoke Bahamut who wrecked their shit.

    So I don't see how Alex/Odin would be around for anyone to invoke for their own purposes to cause Ragnarok in the Far East during any of this time.

    Why would a group of Zilart even want or need to harness Alexander as a weapon? To fight who?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Er, yes? I'm of the opinion Alzadaal is unlikely to be Zilart, but a much better case could be made for Olduum. That's why I said

    I could've sworn there was evidence that Alzadaal is the name of an Aht Urghan Emperor.
    Emperor Alzadaal, which was originally written Al'zadaal (don't remember where, japanese text? /shrug).
    He's the one who "built" the Ruins of Alzadaal. Or made them useable by men, dunno.
    Don't even know if he's the "first" Aht Urghan emperor, just a very old one at least.


    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Why would a group of Zilart even want or need to harness Alexander as a weapon? To fight who?
    Not a Zilart during their Civilization maybe, but a "survivor Zilart who's trying to dominate a part of the world building a human empire" maybe had some reasons to.
    I've already said I don't believe anymore Alzadaal was a Zilart, but back when I did it seemed a very believable hypothesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    the Zilart might have had different nations/races too. Just because we found the main capital city of one nation of Zilart, doesnt rule out that there was another one.
    It doesn't rule there was another one or even multiple, but I find it unlikely.
    Zilart society was very different from ours.
    Remember they were all connected and they had much less "variety" in personal feelings/thoughts compared to our own society or the 5 races' societies.
    It was clearly a small, focused, concentrated society focused on staying around the capital and everything that implied.
    I an see outcasts living outside maybe, or even a small group. But a whole new nation? Possible but unlikely, imho.

    Something tells me that Ra'kaznaar was rather a prison made from the Zilart for a rather powerfull Being (Hades) and to hold other powerfull beings captured (Naakuals, the white Dragon etc.)
    But Saj'akka comes from another dimension, or at least that's what we can grasp from his dialogues.
    Kinda means he came from somewhere else, or was summoned. He didn't arrive on Vana'diel on his own accord.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azat View Post
    The far east felt the effects first due to the fact they were the furthest point from the 5 crystals.
    Yes but... it makes little sense nowadays.
    I mean, why just the far est? Why not Ulbuka? Why not the North and Southern continents? Weren't they "far enough" from the 5 crystals?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    But Saj'akka comes from another dimension, or at least that's what we can grasp from his dialogues.
    Kinda means he came from somewhere else, or was summoned. He didn't arrive on Vana'diel on his own accord.
    that doesnt rule out that he got captured and imprisoned by Hades' minions or by whomever built that giant prison.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    The Zilart were a hive mind population, it just doesn't really "fit" to me that some would just break off and make some empire in BFE, much less why they would mess around with Alexander/Odin. For that matter wouldn't Alex/Odin still be "asleep" with the other Celestials anyway?


    Now that you mention it this does sound familiar, I wanna say that Galka technician said something to that effect in one cutscene or another.
    not like the Kuluu didnt derive from the Zilart and were "not pure". you have allready 2 different "races"/nations right there, i see there no reason for other "Zilartian" like nations to not exist.

  10. #90
    Impossiblu
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    arguing with "retconn" and wanting retconns

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    not like the Kuluu didnt derive from the Zilart and were "not pure". you have allready 2 different "races"/nations right there, i see there no reason for other "Zilartian" like nations to not exist.
    I don't think the Kuluu (before becoming Tonberries I mean) were a real "Zilartian nation", more like a place they found to get together all the people rejected by the Zilartian society because of their issue.
    And it's the only example we know of, and there are good reasons for it to happen (they lacked something and were basically put on the borders of Zilart society).
    Without such extreme reasons I don't really see Zilarts living outside of the Capital and creating other nations/empires somewhere else.


    @Prothescar
    Why the double n?
    Personally, in general and outside of FFXI, I'm not 100% against Retcons.
    It's just that script-writers often make a very cheap use of Retcons, and those are "bad retcons" which I really hate.
    But there can be good retcons too of course. It's not the instrument in itself that's bad, but the use you can make of it.

  12. #92
    Chram
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    I haven't checked the library in Eastern Adoulin in awhile, but checked it tonight to refresh myself on characters and such before the mission conclusion. At some point, it was updated heavily. There's entries for August and his 11 generals (the two we didn't know the names of are Guntram Woltaris and Xanira Janniston), a previous chancellor, Galcimus D. Adoulin, who disappeared in a way very similar to August, by taking 11 generals with him out into the wilderness, Gramk, the previous Velkk king, and a few others. Kind of information overload to toss all the little details mentioned here, so I'd recommend anyone interested in the lore to hit up the library again. FWIW, I've finished the Thirst for the Ages quest line, I'm not sure if that has something to do with adding more material to the library or not.

    Some kindling for the fire that was that concept art of what was presumed to be Siren. Under the entry for Sih Renaye (the first Geomancer) there's an area for related works. One such work is "The Siren Legends."

  13. #93
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    thanks for this..

    i checked a couple of articles recently (cos of the stupid trivia quiz) but never looked into all of them in detail. I love how the library clears up alot of information for us.. on the quiet..

  14. #94
    Chram
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    There's 4 parts in the History section too that are added by Roskin from completing that series. They include much further detail about the scenes we witnessed of the generals in the past, including some details about mobs we haven't seen yet. Some even include information about their deaths, specifically Cirdas, Marjami, and Jorius.

    Didn't the scouts manager essentially say those scenes were made up by Roskin though? Or did she just elude to it? I can't remember.

  15. #95
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    I think she said it because she doesn't believe it happened? but we know it did since we saw the flashblacks as well.

    man.. now im trying to piece together as much of adoulin lore as i can to get a clearer picture.
    theres not much to work with but it still feels interesting somehow.

    side rant. recently cleared XIV's Dreams of Ice patch. Theres still something clearly lacking in XIVs story cutscenes that makes them seem.. boring or unfinished? and this is especially with the MSQ for some reason. the story content is fine. I'm thinking its the storytelling thats lacking.. the camerawork.. or maybe the music.

  16. #96
    Chram
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    So I'm pretty wowed by the conclusion. They did a better job of it all then I expected. Still some questions left unanswered and story elements left wide open. Spoiled since it's not even been out 12 hours.

    Spoiler: show
    Honestly purbed that there was still no mention of "omg Morimar, how are you alive?" Was something ever dropped about this and I just missed it?

    Triumvirate signifies three. We've got Teodor, the original Deathborne Xol, Balamor, apparently the new Deathborne Xol, Ashrakk the.. Gales and Thunder Xol or something, I didn't pick it up, and Dhokmak, some other sort of Xol that I didn't pick up. Did Balamor just replace Teodor to keep it a tri? Where did Balamor come from? And prolly most importantly, what is he doing now?

    Tartarus eh. Think we'll go there? No reason to, yet. But giving "the darkness" a name at the last minute seems to be a bit more foreshadowing then just info.

  17. #97
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    well

    Spoiler: show

    I was under the impression that Teodor was replaced because he betrayed Hades and he decided to get someone else to take his position. However, with the whole blood sigil thing, it doesn't really make sense why the mark is on Teodor instead of Balamor. Then again im not sure if Balamor had one.? not that it matters cos he didn't die. You'll notice they intentionally didnt resolve his character, so i expect an epilogue to include that annoying playwright character.

    but yes definitely wowed by the conclusion.

    I still don't get why august was alive... and why morimar is somewhat immortal. at first i was hoping they'd explain it.. that august did the exact same thing as hades and made morimar a horcrux. but no explanation.. oh well

    also intrigued by how Hades was human but went over the edge lol. Wonder if they'll ever reveal his old name.

  18. #98
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    I need an adult...

    Spoiler: show

  19. #99
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    1) Kinda disappointed we never faught Sajj'aka, kind thought maybe he would be turned berserk, just to give SE an excuse to let us finally fight a Light base Wyrm.

    2) Disappointed they didn't mention origin of Orthsyne and more importantly, Arciela never used it in a fight, she still shoots balls of energy and casts random spells.

    3) Tedor is a Naakual but he doesn't have an aura, nor does he have a 'mega attack' i.e Marine Mayhem/Polar Roar/Static Prison/Incinerating Lahar etc, I'm assuming he's a 'Dark' based Naakual?

    4) Is Tartarus the same as the [U] worlds? Those were never explained, I thought [U] stood for "Underworld" or something. Or are they just non-cannonical dimensions for the sake of gameplay?

    5) Why are the generals wearing AF equipment in the artwork but in cutscenes are wearing Traditional Equipment?

    6) Why was Melvien's body never recovered? Wasn't he not 'posessed'?

    7) Why would August let Teodor have his way when Hades could just ressurect and repeat the cycle all over again? If August kiled Hades, then everyone could rest in fucking peace, why would August WANT to keep living forever to keep Hades in check? Just kill him and break the cycle, instead August was like "Hummmm...okay! I'll let him live and will live forever to keep watch over him to make sure he doesn't rise again".

    8) Was Hades a Zilart, just how old is he? How did he stumble upon this other dimension, as far as we know the universe is only comprised of whatever the gods created, makes it complicated that there's this other dimension beyond Vanadiel that isn't under juristiction by any of the gods, unless that's where Odin is from? Odin has reign over demons aka Kindred/Imps/Gargouiles/Dullahan/Vampyr/Tauri etc, and it would seem the demons in hades are of this type? But not sure where Iron Clads come into play.

  20. #100
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    Spoiler: show
    1) Why would we do that. There's no reason to fight a completely benevolent being just for shits and giggles

    2) Yes she did

    3) Yes he does. He gets it after using "Start From Scratch"

    4) We saw Tartarus in a cutscene, it isn't a physical plane of existence as we'd understand it. Teodor also described it almost completely.

    5) Take a guess.

    6) He was always Hades. Hades wasn't possessing anyone, Hades was a creature born of a man's ambition. The man was Melvien (or whatever his name was before he discovered Tartarus). Again, this was explained in detail.

    7) If you watched the final cutscene, you have seen that they weren't just sitting there in the basement watching the lifeless corpse of Hades.

    8) I knew this was coming. He wasn't a Zilart, Zilarts had nothing to do with this. At all. Not only is the man we know as Melvein clearly an elf, but you can see that the man that was Hades before he was called Hades was also an elf very clearly in one of the cutscenes (further clarifying that Melvein is, indeed, the same guy with a different name). He clearly states that Ra'Kaznars existence is a testament to his power/longevity, implying that he, i.e., an elvaan, not a zilart, built it. Odin had nothing to do with it either, we already know where he's from. Tartarus is as of now an unknown in terms of whence it came, Hades merely stumbled upon it and used it to his own ends by using his pawn, Teodor, to subjugate those "imprisoned" or "inhabiting" the realm. From the sounds, Tartarus is more of a prison for demons and beings of great malevolent power, or perhaps even those of benevolent power who have made some god or other entity fear them (i.e., the dragon).

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