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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    No. The same was said for FF14 1.0 beta, and it released EXACTLY like the beta and was the worst game ever created.
    The same was NOT said for 1.0 beta. Myself and many others predicted the failing of 1.0 as soon as it hit beta and nearly nothing was changed between alpha and beta, and again through beta phase 2 and 3. Guys like Spider Dan and Mioko (although, to his credit, he saw the writing on the wall close to launch) were the ones claiming that everything was going to be alright. Go back and read the posts.

    2.0 has been leagues ahead of 1.0. They cannot even be compared.

  2. #142

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    My brain is fuzzy at the moment, church, but is there any main-line successful MMO that follows that reality that's still doing reasonably well?
    What do you mean, having crafted gear be worthwhile? It literally has to be for this games economy to work, so I'd hope so lol. Getting a quint meld won't necessarily be easy, materia (after the surge at release) should also be somewhat harder to come by, especially TIV/TV. Without divulging too much, you won't want to waste your time with just any piece of gear or whatnot either.

    Without crafted gear being worthwhile, there is no reason to buy anything, ever. Dungeon gear is piss easy to come by, especially in an FC/LS. There is no reason to gather, no reason to craft, no reason to SB. Consumables will be the entire market. Elixir's and Mega STR pots gogo.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    What do you mean, having crafted gear be worthwhile? It literally has to be for this games economy to work, so I'd hope so lol. Getting a quint meld won't necessarily be easy, materia (after the surge at release) should also be somewhat harder to come by, especially TIV/TV. Without divulging too much, you won't want to waste your time with just any piece of gear or whatnot either.

    Without crafted gear being worthwhile, there is no reason to buy anything, ever. Dungeon gear is piss easy to come by, especially in an FC/LS. There is no reason to gather, no reason to craft, no reason to SB. Consumables will be the entire market. Elixir's and Mega STR pots gogo.
    I mean crafted gear being on pair with raid gear, slot-per-slot. I'm not talking about being able to craft a tier lower, or even crafting the same tier, but gems, accessories, ect. True "freedom of progression", if you will.

  4. #144
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    No. The same was said for FF14 1.0 beta, and it released EXACTLY like the beta and was the worst game ever created.
    Different management between 1.0 and 2.0.

  5. #145

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    In your opinion, my dear. I personally don't think that the cross-class system could ever be worse than "screw it, we're not taking you because you aren't war/nin, rng/nin, rdm or brd", no matter how you want to hash it up, and that was the reality of XI for years, including its entire prominent phase of its lifespan.

    I also don't see how you can say with any kind of confidence that 2.0's gear itemization is worse than XI's, while saying in the same breath that by mixing XI and 2.0 you can have a superior system. If you mixed XI with 2.0 by your initial statement, the result would still be sub-par to XI alone, because you'd have gotten some of that dirty, awful, filthy 2.0 all over your pristine, clean XI (nostalgia).

    I didn't think there were so many XI purists outside of the XI thread, but damn. I stand corrected.
    I don't want to mix FF11 with FF14 2.0, I want them to take ideas from FF11, make new ideas, fix things they did wrong with FF11, and make something much better in FF14 2.0.

    I don't even want to play FF11: HD version. I want to play a MMO that's unique in it's own way and stands out from all the crap that's been spewing out of the AAA MMO genre since 2006.

  6. #146

    I dont get why they fucked with the stat system from 1.23, it seemed fine to me. When I boosted my stats I saw difference. Right now when I leveled my char and got new weapons and all that shit it just seemed all the same to me. Even when I got my lvl 50 char back I still feel gimp.

  7. #147
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    ^ I think it has to do with how many boxes 1.23 sold (none) vs. how much a fresh start (IE: copying others successful in the biz) will sell.

  8. #148
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    I say it's still a couple weeks too early to complain about the stats when we're still in phase 3 beta.

  9. #149

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    I mean crafted gear being on pair with raid gear, slot-per-slot. I'm not talking about being able to craft a tier lower, or even crafting the same tier, but gems, accessories, ect. True "freedom of progression", if you will.
    Not too many games have raids and were also successful anyway so the comparison is skewed.

    Right now the difference in lv80 crafted/dungeon gear is that the dungeon gear has an extra stat slot and a few more points in each main stat over the NQ crafted piece.

    If that extra slot was skill speed, I could take that piece, slot whatever 3rd stat I wanted guaranteed, slot something else guaranteed, then just overload it with STR and have a piece of gear that suits me better than the dungeon piece.

    I would imagine that raid gear will have another stat for full points and that will be the difference and in that case it will be hard to make some pieces (crafted) better, but that doesn't mean it will apply to all pieces or all of the things I may want to do.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    I don't want to mix FF11 with FF14 2.0, I want them to take ideas from FF11, make new ideas, fix things they did wrong with FF11, and make something much better in FF14 2.0.

    I don't even want to play FF11: HD version. I want to play a MMO that's unique in it's own way and stands out from all the crap that's been spewing out of the AAA MMO genre since 2006.
    Wait. What?

    Also, this game is marketed towards everyone. Not just people who slammed their faces against a keyboard in FFXI for 10 years.

    They've made their major design decisions. If you don't like it, go back to FFXI or fade into the mist please.

  11. #151

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetanio View Post
    Wait. What?

    Also, this game is marketed towards everyone. Not just people who slammed their faces against a keyboard in FFXI for 10 years.

    They've made their major design decisions. If you don't like it, go back to FFXI or fade into the mist please.
    Your response doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

    I state "I don't want to play FFXI: HD"

    You say "go back to FFXI"

    I just said I don't want to play FFXI, why are you telling me to go back to FFXI?

    I would seriously rather stare at a wall and do nothing than play FFXI again. I have no idea what "slamming face against keyboard" has anything to do with FFXI, really confused here.

    Anyways, I just want cross-class system to be expanded on, itemization to actually have fun stats and not "oh yay this has 5more def, 7 more mdef, 3 more mnd and 4 more VIT, UPGRADE!", and duty finder to have a "same server only" option.

    But for this thread, that I apparently started, itemization is severely lacking. Let's all hope that it's fixed by P4/Retail. Please be fixed..........

  12. #152

    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
    I dont get why they fucked with the stat system from 1.23, it seemed fine to me. When I boosted my stats I saw difference. Right now when I leveled my char and got new weapons and all that shit it just seemed all the same to me. Even when I got my lvl 50 char back I still feel gimp.
    Because melees needing INT/MND/PIE was retarded and had to go for a number of reasons.

  13. #153
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    You don't want XI: HD, but you want XI: But Better! version?

    Please explain the difference.

  14. #154

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    ^ I think it has to do with how many boxes 1.23 sold (none) vs. how much a fresh start (IE: copying others successful in the biz) will sell.
    I dont think stats were the problem in that equation. I maybe wrong but I think Yoshi said at one point that he does not want gear to really matter much which would be a huge mistake in my opinion. It would certainly be a huge problem for me.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    In your opinion, my dear. I personally don't think that the cross-class system could ever be worse than "screw it, we're not taking you because you aren't war/nin, rng/nin, rdm or brd", no matter how you want to hash it up, and that was the reality of XI for years, including its entire prominent phase of its lifespan.

    I also don't see how you can say with any kind of confidence that 2.0's gear itemization is worse than XI's, while saying in the same breath that by mixing XI and 2.0 you can have a superior system. If you mixed XI with 2.0 by your initial statement, the result would still be sub-par to XI alone, because you'd have gotten some of that dirty, awful, filthy 2.0 all over your pristine, clean XI (nostalgia).

    I didn't think there were so many XI purists outside of the XI thread, but damn. I stand corrected.
    I completely agree with this. The basic builds of FFXI were so changing on whatever was current at the time. One guy is spouting about how much fun playing THF was in HNM when in reality you used to sit out for 95% of the fight only to jump in and WS for your TH bonus which means you didn't really even fight the bosses. I remember when I couldn't get merit parties because WHM "had too much down time, we're using RDM and BRD only".

    BST, THF, DRG, SMN, MNK, SAM, and even PLD all had a time where almost no one wanted them in their party. There was a time when melee was absolutely worthless on any HNM. There was a time when only SMN DPS was used on certain bosses because it was almost threatless. This could have been because of lack of gear, items that benefited them, lack of WS, lack of appropriate skill chains, lack of damage, too much damage taken over Ninja, pets took EXP, couldn't heal as good as other jobs, there was ALWAYS something to discredit another job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drai View Post
    isn't this system of Get Gear > do Dungeon > get better gear style of progression pretty much the same as WoW? I admit I have a lack of experience on WoW, but end game aren't all the players of the same class all pretty much wearing the same armors anyways? all from the current highest Raid or something?
    What MMO isn't like this? Even FFXI was about get gear > kill boss > get better gear style progression. It's just most of the time you had to carry like 4 set of gear depending on your job. Healer? Refresh set, potency set, HMP set, buff set, debuff set. Ninja? Cast time, haste, evasion, WS. That shit was NOT fun and I'm seriously confused to why some people think it was the pinnacle of FFXI combat system.

    And to Shiyo, you're only kidding yourself if you think people would make different choices even if we could select ALL skills. You're basically saying "If I want to be a SMN/BLM, I should be allowed to!" And then later on you'll bitch and moan that no one invited you because they're just stupid and don't understand your uniqueness.

  16. #156
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    I don't want to mix FF11 with FF14 2.0, I want them to take ideas from FF11, make new ideas, fix things they did wrong with FF11, and make something much better in FF14 2.0.
    Fucking.
    What.

  17. #157

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    You don't want XI: HD, but you want XI: But Better! version?

    Please explain the difference.
    No, I want the same company that made FFXI not to design new systems that are worse than their decade old game. If this was any other company, I would not compare the game to FFXI. But they made FFXI, and still support it, so they know how the game works still.

    I want things better than what we currently have. It's like if I bought a Pokemon game and they added new systems very similar to their older games, but it was worse. I would complain, and say "well, the older game did this better, why did you downgrade?". Do I want to play the older pokemon game? No, I just want them to make the system in the new one better than it currently is, and hopefully better than the one in their previous game(s).

  18. #158

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetanio View Post
    Fucking.
    What.
    I don't want to mix FF11 with FF14 2.0, I want them to take ideas from FF11, make new ideas, fix things they did wrong with FF11, and make something much better in FF14 2.0.
    make new ideas
    The bolded/quoted part.

    And to Shiyo, you're only kidding yourself if you think people would make different choices even if we could select ALL skills. You're basically saying "If I want to be a SMN/BLM, I should be allowed to!" And then later on you'll bitch and moan that no one invited you because they're just stupid and don't understand your uniqueness.
    I have never said anything remotely close to this.

    I said there needs to be more skills to pick from, and something else added to the cross-class system(expanded on) in someway to make it more interesting. It's very bland and basic right now, with no real choices. Pretty much everyone will pick the same skills depending on their class role and if in a party or solo.

  19. #159
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    Have you got one?

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    The same was NOT said for 1.0 beta. Myself and many others predicted the failing of 1.0 as soon as it hit beta and nearly nothing was changed between alpha and beta, and again through beta phase 2 and 3. Guys like Spider Dan and Mioko (although, to his credit, he saw the writing on the wall close to launch) were the ones claiming that everything was going to be alright. Go back and read the posts.
    While you're investigating history, make sure to take note of the people who claim that they knew 1.0 retail was going to suck and yet still went out and bought it.

    Oh, you expect some sort of credit for expressing disapproval on the internet of a future product? Such a bold and revolutionary move!

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