Itemization: To shit is situational or to not shit is situational

[Evane]

No, I want the same company that made FFXI not to design new systems that are worse than their decade old game. If this was any other company, I would not compare the game to FFXI. But they made FFXI, and still support it, so they know how the game works still.

I want things better than what we currently have. It's like I bought a Pokemon game and they added new systems very similar to their older games, but it was worse. I would complain, and say "well, the older game did this better, why did you downgrade?".

It's more like you bought a Mario game thinking it would be similar to Pokemon and was disappointed.

Pretty much everyone will pick the same skills depending on their class role and if in a party or solo.

You keep repeating this sentence thinking everyone will have the same skills. Unless everyone levels all the classes, they won't have the same skills. And if they did level all the classes, wouldn't it be fair and kind of a reward for them to use those skills?

[Okan]

I have never said anything remotely close to this.

I said there needs to be more skills to pick from, and something else added to the cross-class system(expanded on) in someway to make it more interesting. It's very bland and basic right now, with no real choices. Pretty much everyone will pick the same skills.

What I'm telling you is it doesn't matter what they do.

Let me repeat.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

People will math out the answer that Job A needs these 2 skills from Job B and these 3 from Job C to make an optimal character. It's only happened in like EVERY MMO EVER.
WoW? People mathed the best talent builds.
FFXI? People mathed the best builds (gear and SJ).
Rift? People mathed the best builds.
Ragnarok Online? People mathed the best builds.

Sure, you can make yourself a unique flower and build however you want to, but just because you're a unique SMN/BRD doesn't mean you're actually useful.

[Zetanio]

So all I'm getting is that Shiyo wants FFXI 2.0.

Did we miss anything?

[Almalexia]

I dont get why they fucked with the stat system from 1.23, it seemed fine to me. When I boosted my stats I saw difference. Right now when I leveled my char and got new weapons and all that shit it just seemed all the same to me. Even when I got my lvl 50 char back I still feel gimp.

Simplicity.

You can look at a couple of items and know right away X is better Y. You don't have to calculate STR's effect on the damage formula vs. ATK vs. DTR vs. DMG vs. KFC to know which item is right for you.

Accuracy is now generic. STR is linked directly to ATK, same with DEX and INT for their respective attack types. HP only derives from VIT and MP from PIE. No guesswork necessary and the bigger number always wins.

Global standard!

[Spider-Dan]

Because changing gears in mid fight is totally realistic dudes and dudettes.

It's significantly more realistic than, say, casting an AoE fire spell on a group of monsters surrounded by your party members and having them continue unharmed.

Please do not make the "realistic" argument in a fantasy video game.

[Rocl]

the metric system strikes again

[Skai]

Because I was totally serious.

[Zetanio]

It's significantly more realistic than, say, casting an AoE fire spell on a group of monsters surrounded by your party members and having them continue unharmed.

Please do not make the "realistic" argument in a fantasy video game.

This thread continues to wow. Please, tell me more about how gear swaps and whatever you said have anything to do with eachother.

[Spider-Dan]

If the argument is that swapping gear mid-fight is "unrealistic," well, damn near everything in the game is unrealistic. So you should never make the "realism!" argument.

[Okan]

If the argument is that swapping gear mid-fight is "unrealistic," well, damn near everything in the game is unrealistic. So you should never make the "realism!" argument.

Okay, let's go with unorthodox. Because if it was, I'm totally sure that Fafnir would totally be cool with you changing your shoes mid fight so he can't hit you. I just asked him. He even said he'll wait until you're done. Just let him know. He can never tell because you guys blink so much.

[Evane]

Petition to rename this thread random fail ARR edition.

[Lucavi]

While you're investigating history, make sure to take note of the people who claim that they knew 1.0 retail was going to suck and yet still went out and bought it.

Oh, you expect some sort of credit for expressing disapproval on the internet of a future product? Such a bold and revolutionary move!

Spider-Dan, ladies and gentlemen!

And with that, I'm out for the night. God Bless.

[Karbuncle]

So all I'm getting is that Shiyo wants FFXI 2.0.

Did we miss anything?

Thinking ya'll (not specifically you sir, but they know who) missed a lot and are letting the high of circle jerking with a bunch of like minded folk cloud the fact Shiyo and others have some valid points... Letting the fact most of you can't stand Shiyo put on some Logic-filtering glasses so thick ya'll blind. But hey, Feels good?

Regardless of how most of ya'll feel about Shiyo, I'mma agree on some levels with her here. Itemization, While not finalized, is incredibly boring and it feels like your gear does jack-shit all for you... I understand its Beta, and while FFXIV 1.0 did suffer from the "Its Beta" > "Oh, its the same on release?"... FFXIV2.0 is different, and could very easily change, and this gear could be placeholder, but... What if its not? It thoroughly reminds me of every "dead in a week" generic MMO on the market, and FFXIV isn't winning any MMO prizes for anything but Graphic atm. While entertaining, How many of you can safely say you'll play this game 3+ years from now if the Itemization is the same? I can't, I probably wouldn't make it a couple months. I know we can all say its Beta, but if they release the game, and sh*t stays like this, how long until people are complaining for more variety in gear? How long until the fun "new MMO" smell runs off and you realize the only gear progression for the forseeable future is going to be "+1-3 of (stat) and DEF, maybe it'll look cooler?"

Now, Personally, I enjoyed Guild Wars 2, But what turned me off was the gear selection. I mean, I hit level cap, got some orange-tier gear off the AH, looked at what goals i could make and it was... Do endless dungeons for gear with 2-3 more stats... then... wait for the next update to get gear with 2-3 more stats? I know, FFXI is essentially the same, In all reality your best sets were always just adding a few more of the most needed stats... a combo of Haste, Acc, Attack, STR/DEX... But gear was more than Stat rings. It wasn't just +1 to this. You could go from a Helm with HP+30/MP+30 haste+5 to a Helm with Acc+12 Triple Attack+3 and Haste+6, allowing you to drop some Accuracy in your ring or back slot and add some attack or whatever in there. One of your slots could go from a Haste Slot, to a Multi-attack slot (Black Belt vs Windbuffet as an example). Even if there was perfect sets, It was the illusion of these choices and "ooh shiny" that made people happy. Its the idea having 2 pieces of haste gear in head/feet could allow you to swap X slot for Y, those kind of goals.

When i read Shiyo's post, I do see the logic in what she's asking. If this MMO comes out the gate with these stats and itemization, its going to suffer like Diablo 3 did... Now, I don't want FFXI's itemization back, no sir, can't stomach that a second time... but i also don't want a Diablo 3 Bland-ass Itemization "Vertical, Linear, +1 stats, Final destination" upgrade path either. In the end, I think them taking the "Mario" path and dumbing it down to the lowest possible level to appeal to the mass retards our population of piling out like the preamble to Idiocracy is not the direction I'd like for the game to take.... But I don't speak for everyone and I understand a lot of people fear what that could bring, or fail to see what we see in it... I get it I just wish i could articulate it better so maybe I'd get through to some of you =.=

[Spider-Dan]

I also find it incredibly hilarious that after 9 pages, Lucavi/Elcura's claim that gearswapping was meaningless in XI is still largely being accepted as fact.

TP gear?
WS gear?
Enfeebling gear?
Stoneskin gear?
Stun recast?
Cure potency?
Sentinel? Provoke? Convert? Minuet?

Nope, no one ever gearswapped for any of these things, and if they did, they were just wasting time.

[Lucavi]

Psst... its because the alternative is trusting anything you say at face value, Dan.

I'm gone~!

[Grey Jorildyn]

I find it incredibly meaningless that after 9 pages we're still talking about FFXI in the FFXIV section.

[Rocl]

I find it incredibly meaningless that after 9 pages we're still talking about FFXI in the FFXIV section.

Same company bro

[Spider-Dan]

Psst... its because the alternative is trusting anything you say at face value, Dan.

Precisely correct.

Over the last 9 months, posters like you have benefited greatly from the game not being out (because that would provide a mechanism to put up or shut up). Once the game is out and people can tell that 95% of what you say is useless and completely detached from reality (when put into actual practice), you will return to your former status.

You were perpetually clueless in XI, never knew anything about 1.0 to begin with, but you can keep pretending to be a sage right until ARR actually comes out. Hope you enjoyed the ride.

[Evane]

I find it incredibly meaningless that after 9 pages we're still talking about FFXI in the FFXIV section.

I find it incredibly shocking that Draylo haven't made an appearance yet. No disrespect.

[Grey Jorildyn]

None taken but now you've ruined everything.