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  1. #1
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    Itemization: To shit is situational or to not shit is situational

    Quote Originally Posted by solracht View Post
    You know it's going to happen, especially since the tank players can use it on their DRGs. Like I said, looking forward to all the shitstorms.
    The problem is this game has literally the worst itemization of any video game ever created except for Diablo3, and the worst of any MMO. 1h weapons + shields for casters are better than 2h weapons(same exact magic damage, but shield + 1h gives more int/vit/mnd/etc), barely any tanking stats, stats that take 100+ points(and you can't even really get 150+ of said stat) reduce the GCD by .1 second, no tank stats that actually do much, if anything at all, 100+ points for barely any more block % or anymore block reduction making no noticable difference at all.

    It's just all fucked, and I hope that this itemization/stat system is a placeholder. But you know what? People said that in FF14 1.0 beta "LOL ITS JUST BETA JUST WAIT GUYS IT'LL CHANGE AT RELEASE!" No, fuck you, nothing fucking changed.

    When the only way I'm comparing if something is an upgrade or not is by how much def/magic def, mnd/vit it has, you know your itemization and gearing system is completely fucked and boring beyond belief. What happened to infinite number-crunching, spreadsheets, parsing, data-testing, set bonuses, cool unique stats, etc that FF11 had? Did we really need to dumb it all down for the farmville/COD player who will pick up the game, play for a month because it's the new hot MMO in town, then quit after 1 month to play the next new hot MMO? Was that worth giving up the loyal fanbase of players who still play FFXI since release, to this day, and are the only players who will play MMO's for year and years on end?

    What is the point of setting stat points when you level up? Yay I get +1 str when I have 150+ in a single stat, illusion of choice/customization. How many to each stat does the average naked level 50 gear char? If you use all 30 stat points you get from leveling to 50, you get 240 HP at level 50. Two-hundred, fucking forty HP. Why? That's a 7% HP increase for a level 50 MRD tank with 3,300 HP.

    They really need to look at this games itemization/stats system. The above is a great example of how few stats there is in the game and how boring they are. There's no real tank-only stats on most gear(I think VIT and parry are the only "tank stats" on gear? and I personally don't consider vit a "tank only" stat). Sure the def/mdef is a HUGE difference, but other than that, parry and vit instaed of determination are the ONLY stat differences, not very exciting. Main stat/secondary stat, all resist, defense. Hmm..what game does this sound like? Diablo3 veterans might know.

    http://na.beta.finalfantasyxiv.com/l...racter/363463/

    Those are stats on level 50 gear, blues are the best gear in the game(I thnk?), look at how exciting the stats are. STR VIT SKILLSPEED PARRY. Yay! That 341 skillspeed? That's a 0.3 seconds off his GCD. Not that he has the best gear in the game, I'm not sure if he does, but his gear isn't horrible or anything I'd imagine, since it's blue quality.

  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Those are stats on level 50 gear, blues are the best gear in the game(I thnk?), look at how exciting the stats are. STR VIT SKILLSPEED PARRY. Yay! That 341 skillspeed? That's a 0.3 seconds off his GCD. Not that he has the best gear in the game, I'm not sure if he does, but his gear isn't horrible or anything I'd imagine, since it's blue quality.
    What if it had something more epic like... SOUL+74, CHIVALRY+49, CONFIDENCE+42 and FRIENDSHIP+74. You know random stats that make no sense to get us all back to that fun age of "infinite number-crunching, spreadsheets, parsing, data-testing, set bonuses, cool unique stats, etc that FF11 had."

    Edit: I admit that I haven't bothered to check the link before posting. Now that I did, I'll rephrase my post.
    Spoiler for huge.
    Spoiler: show
    LOL

  3. #3
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    How much does Shiyo complain? A rough and brief analysis:

    Spoiler: show
    What ass backwards 1998 servers are they using? Jesus christ, this game is going to be fucking $15/month to play, think the least they could do is buy some servers from the same fucking decade.
    Fishing not making gil automatically makes it boring and not fun for me, I only like fishing if I'm making infinite money while doing it, it's what makes it fun for me.
    Yeah, leveling anything besides your first class is a chore and realllllly grindy without skipping straight to 15.
    FF11 is the only mmo ive played with fun gear, every other mmo has had boring as hell gear. FF14 has by far the most generic, boring, uninteresting gear in any video game I've ever played besides...
    thought I didn't know how to send tells because I kept typing /tell (persons name) and nothing happened until I typed it with punctuation, annoying and stupid. The game needs auto-fill option so I...
    Auto-mated grouping tool is dumb. GW2LFG.com is the best LFG tool, and should be the standard in MMO's. Takes less than 5 mins to form a group. encourages communication, you actually need to talk to...
    Not anti-social, not at all, not one bit!
    WOW and GW2 has had pretty much 100% cross server gameplay with guesting and whatever the hell it's called in WOW for months now. They have no excuse that they can't even implement working cross-server tells/friendlist properly. NONE at all.
    Yeah, that's bullshit. This game is going to be $15/month, GW2 is buy to play and has 100% cross server EVERYTHING except WVW(for obvious reasons). SE needs to stop being stingy, if Yoshi-P wants us...
    Yeah, not liking a LFG tool = game is unplayable and complete garb...what?
    Overworld content has zero party content, there is no party content outside dungeons, that is where all the social interaction occurs. With dungeon finder, you can no longer have these social...
    I am >>literally<< unable to make friends from doing dungeons, the only grouping content in the game until the level cap, when "raids" exist(who knows if they'll be doable with dungeon finder too?),...
    never mentioned GW2 in my post. Also, cross-server systems are bad no matter what, even if you can have cross-server friendlists/parties/etc, it just makes the actual "pool" of players too big of a...
    The fuck?

    Duty finder is fine, it only being cross-server with no option of same server only isn't.
    The problem is this game has literally the worst itemization of any video game ever created except for Diablo3, and the worst of any MMO. 1h weapons + shields for casters are better than 2h...


    In conclusion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eanae View Post
    she just doesn't know when to shut up and over exaggerates everything. WITH CAPS INCLUDED.
    Seriously, we understand you hate pretty much almost everything about FFXIV and you looovvveeee WoW and GW2.

    But now do us all a favor and simmer down with your incessant complaining and whining in here. It's unconstructive, annoying and an eyesore in general. Just go somewhere else or something! In fact, why don't you go and make a livejournal about it since you seem to love to complain about it so bloody much.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Missed your post Shiyo. I hope you understand that the gear that guy has is at best starter 50 gear.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensaki View Post
    Missed your post Shiyo. I hope you understand that the gear that guy has is at best starter 50 gear.
    Did not know, thanks. Sorry if my post was annoying, I don't hate FF14, I was just trying to give my opinion about it's itemization.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Did not know, thanks. Sorry if my post was annoying, I don't hate FF14, I was just trying to give my opinion about it's itemization.
    You could have fooled literally fucking everyone on BG.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rionel View Post
    How much does Shiyo complain? A rough and brief analysis:


    Shiyo's post keeps getting longer and in that link the dude is wearing full AF but that's not what it's showing (looks like milita gear); anyways AF was completely quested in 1.0 (likely to be similar in 2.0) and part of the natural progression to Lv50 quests in Job Quests.

    While the rarity does seem to be
    Purple>Blue>Green>Pink>White; that may not always be the case. There's also the argument that these stats aren't finalized.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    There's also the argument that these stats aren't finalized.
    If all the 'augments' do not come back it will be one of the things that saddens me most about the game, because I do agree stats feel a little bland now. I mean, it's ok for leveling gear, but near the end I would like to see some more interesting stuff pop up. I saw people on BF saying that Yoshi decided to remove these to simplify itemization, but no one provided a quote and personally I don't remember anything like that being said, so I'm still hoping...

    (now someone will come, post the quote and crush my dreams forever)

  9. #9
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    I will be wearing full DD gear on Warrior and tanking, come at me.

  10. #10
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    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

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    I have a shred of hope that item stats are placeholder just because AF and relics are so fucking boring. For generic gear and even dungeon drops I'm okay with boring stat spreads, but AF and relics should be class defining shit. Even 1.0 relics had class relevant boons like Jump DMG+ for DRG, but there's none of that shit here. Negative stats are also nowhere to be seen, you literally look at gear and go "well this has more STR, it's the best". It is downright awful and really stands out when everything else about the game seems so polished. I don't want to believe the devs are blind to it.

  11. #11
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    Am I the only one who didn't want to brush off Shiyo's itemization post? I find it all pretty boring, diablo 3 boring, and ignoring it or saying "It's just the beta it'll change" is what everyone did in 1.0 and we see how that worked out.

  12. #12

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Yoshi P wasn't running shit back then.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadgye View Post
    Am I the only one who didn't want to brush off Shiyo's itemization post? I find it all pretty boring, diablo 3 boring, and ignoring it or saying "It's just the beta it'll change" is what everyone did in 1.0 and we see how that worked out.
    I care less about XI's itemization than D3's, because having chr on Drg AF is bullshit, having piss-poor defense on Drg AF is bullshit, and having 400 sidegrades is bullshit. The only stat enhancements I'd like to see that aren't currently in the game are the ones that existed for D2 and uber AF items in XI: shit that enhances existing abilities or traits. You can keep your fire resist, your fucking +hp while healing and your chr stat. Give me some +5% threat to overpower, some +5 seconds to bloodbath, ect. Your useless XI side stats can kiss my black ass.

    Also, [email protected] duty finder complaints in terms of both gear and bad players. Blaming the system for bads makes you a bad. The only gear-oriented issue comes from the fact that only mage gear drops, so there needs to be a token system to supplement the fact that only mage gear drops.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    I care less about XI's itemization than D3's, because having chr on Drg AF is bullshit, having piss-poor defense on Drg AF is bullshit, and having 400 sidegrades is bullshit. The only stat enhancements I'd like to see that aren't currently in the game are the ones that existed for D2 and uber AF items in XI: shit that enhances existing abilities or traits. You can keep your fire resist, your fucking +hp while healing and your chr stat. Give me some +5% threat to overpower, some +5 seconds to bloodbath, ect. Your useless XI side stats can kiss my black ass.

    Also, [email protected] duty finder complaints in terms of both gear and bad players. Blaming the system for bads makes you a bad. The only gear-oriented issue comes from the fact that only mage gear drops, so there needs to be a token system to supplement the fact that only mage gear drops.


    CHR helps voke, you heard it here first folks!

  15. #15
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    I think you're only remembering the crap parts of XI's gear system. I loved how I could gear for specific type of things. For example I was able to decrease my recast time on all spells by like 30-40% as thief. Or I could boost my evasion rate from 55% to 80% purely through gear.

    It was the drastic differences gear could allow you that was great. I had to decide if I wanted to gear for pure evasion while soloing, or a mix of evasion and damage, or just pure damage output. Or I could gear for increased steal rate because loldynamispulling. The differences were huge.

    What I'm seeing now is just +str +dex +vit (+skill speed or +accuracy or +parry) and that stats make barely any difference.

    I think this only relates to PVE gear though. Gathering and Crafting gear feels like it has a substantial effect that's simple and worth while.


    edit: Also none of the dragon af had chr on it, wtf are you talking about lol.

  16. #16
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    In the limited time of playing, as far as itemization goes.. I completely agree with Shiyo here. D: Like.. stats are just boring as fuck. "Straight Upgrades" are only really upgrades because ofa whole +1 defense and maybe an extra point in Strength. I mean.. I just don't think that sort of thing really makes a difference in the long run.

    And I've seen the AF/Relics and stuff and yeah.. they look boring as all hell. Now I don't know for sure, but do you get any new like..skills for using a Relic? or is it just a new weapon skin with slightly better stats than other shit?

  17. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadgye View Post
    I think you're only remembering the crap parts of XI's gear system. I loved how I could gear for specific type of things. For example I was able to decrease my recast time on all spells by like 30-40% as thief. Or I could boost my evasion rate from 55% to 80% purely through gear.

    It was the drastic differences gear could allow you that was great. I had to decide if I wanted to gear for pure evasion while soloing, or a mix of evasion and damage, or just pure damage output. Or I could gear for increased steal rate because loldynamispulling. The differences were huge.

    What I'm seeing now is just +str +dex +vit (+skill speed or +accuracy or +parry) and that stats make barely any difference.

    I think this only relates to PVE gear though. Gathering and Crafting gear feels like it has a substantial effect that's simple and worth while.


    edit: Also none of the dragon af had chr on it, wtf are you talking about lol.
    XI's problems is that these "drastic differences" were never drastic enough. It didn't allow THF to be more of a ranged attacker if they wanted to, especially on anything harder than fodder you farm, it didn't give THF a spectacular evasion rate so they could forgo /NIN and still dodge competently. The only differences gear made in XI were for the most part, against far weaker opponents because on anything worthwhile, it didn't mean a damn.

    You go around the various jobs, look at what gear choices they have and you realise that non of the gear specifically changed much of what you could realistically do. Sure, maybe a DRK could focus more on magic damage on weaker opponents, but it was never a real option for them. Same with weapons, you used what your class was best at, since anything else was just too inferior to even give a second thought about. XI's system would've been pretty impressive if it wasn't so restrictive. The most meaningful changes you make to gear are only to enhance your true role better, not give you viable options and alternatives to play your job. It may have worked to some degree, but XI's itemization meant that even if you wanted to change how you played your job, you needed to put in hours or a fuckload of gil to achieve it. And what for?

    I agree that ARR itemization is boring, but it is a pretty complex topic that can't be underestimated in importance. What we see now doesn't show creativity, just a baseline for what's better and what isn't. Gear is pretty clear cut, so in order to improve it's easy to see where you go next.

  18. #18

    I just do not seem any gear with specific skill enhancing stats on them working in 14 at all. The progression is very vertical. Even if I add some enhance xxx ability to say AF, how long will that be useful? Not very. As soon as I get the next piece with better base stats (which makes such a huge difference at the moment), I will never use my af piece again. The only reason this worked in 11 was because of gear swapping. which doesn't happen in 14.

    Edit, just read an interview and it seems that there will be consistent updates adding new raids and dungeons with new gear. I would not mind side grades when everyone is at level cap but, I just do not see it happening with the progression as it is.

    Also another thing we also have to look at that is being added is the gear score, and gating.

  19. #19
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    XI's itemization also didn't mean shit for any content that mattered. For anything that mattered, you maxed your precious haste, maxed your precious attack and maxed your precious strength as a DD, and so and and so forth for other classes. No thf became some tank for a major boss fight because of gear choices. No Summoner became some major main-line DPS because of gear choices, or a tank due to gear choices that allowed avatars to tank, or anything like that.

    So much fucking nostalgia up in here. Your "freedom of choice" consisted of blue-boxing as much as you could while leveling a class and maxing 3 or so stats for HNMs. For douching around, soloing, duoing and the like, that's where your "freedom" came in.

    For all the talk of cool AF in XI, how many linkshells actually allowed a corps of Drgs to main-heal as a group through proper utilization of AF wyvern bonuses? So potentially useful on specific fights, yet so underused because of "loldrg!"

    Shut the fuck up with all this pointless nostalgia.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Gear is pretty clear cut, so in order to improve it's easy to see where you go next.
    This is exactly the point of getting gear as you level; it's supposed to be linear upgrades until you get to end game, at which point it's supposed to enhance your main job's abilities or role. Unfortunately, stats are so saturated that it takes far to many to see any particular gain in things like Skill/Spell speed, Crit, and Determination, which is fine if they have a good idea of what abilities/skills they want to enhance. Regardless, it seems to me that we're on the path where most people are wearing the same gear, with the same stats, just like most other MMO's.

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