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Thread: Conjurer Discussion     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #21
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    In before IT'S BETA. Seriously we have our own Rokien over here.

  2. #22
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    Priest back then pretty much killed stuff spamming... smite... smite smite smite smite smite smite, oh forgot it had shadow word pain (pretty much the same as aero for ffxiv). oh and there was no "talent switch" or pay service if I recall back then, so once you go one path, thats it.
    I used to have a silly shout macro for smite just so I wouldn't kill myself while lvling it. (I forget it now, but it was something like, "I SMITE YOU ALL WITH LIGHTNING....VERY VERY WEAK LIGHTNING.")

    regardless, disc priest tends to be one of the more broken classes in regards to pve. And bliz really doesn't give a shit of how things get broken pre-cap lvls when they change stuff. Currently, disc priests can out dps people by an insane amount pretty much until 90 in dungeons. And then if they try to do the same in raids everyone dies.

    [edit] So I don't double post. This is actually one of my few beefs with how bliz handles classes. I understand in this day and age of the game most just want to get to cap. I like leveling though and I do think it's a design flaw to have people play a class one way for 90 levels and then basically have to relearn it once at cap. (lvling has become so fast in that game though it's becoming a moot point.)

    Whatever design they have in mind for conj/whm for cap I home it remains consistent while lvling.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by YukonWildAss View Post
    Not sure what point you're trying to make here. That we may have to wait 4 years before CNJ isn't boring and basic, or what?
    No

    I was compared shiyo's wow reference to ffxiv.

    As I said, whm has a few dps spells, aka a sort of disc spec which CNj can switch to.

    If you want to go "shadow priest mode", might as well switch to THM (aka strong dps magic, crappy healing sub cnj cure).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Regen is a spell...
    Had to look it up, because like I said, I haven't played WHM (and apparently thats a WHM spell). Considering the thread said conjurer, I knew conjurer itself did not have regen at all. Anywa...!

    Something like regen, is usually used for boss type fights. Its to heal slow damage over time, with a slow heal over time. Its a "to help heal" healing spell, its not ment to be awesome.

    lets say you are fighting a boss, it does random target attacks (for instance lv32 boss). You can regen whoever gets blasted then go back to Cure1 spam the tank or esuna etc, while that other person is still getting healed.

    Or if their buttnaked and being ass raped by the first boss , you can regen when its readying its hammer beak and cure1 bomb them while its doing normal attacks instead of Cure2 bomb constantly to make sure they live.

    its a situational cure, or to do extra cures to people over time when you are busy keeping someone else alive while ensuring your group as a whole lives. That is what regen is for.

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    If you want to go "shadow priest mode", might as well switch to THM (aka strong dps magic, crappy healing).
    This is not a valid comparison at all. Switching to THM would require you to level an entirely new class to the level cap. Switching to shadow priest in WOW simply requires you to pay a very cheap 1-50g(1-2 days of dailies) respec cost. After dual spec was added, and I think it was added in TBC, 2006, you simply press a button out of combat and are instantly shadow spec.

    lets say you are fighting a boss, it does random target attacks (for instance lv32 boss). You can regen whoever gets blasted then go back to Cure1 spam the tank or esuna etc, while that other person is still getting healed.

    Or if their buttnaked and being ass raped by the first boss , you can regen when its readying its hammer beak and cure1 bomb them while its doing normal attacks instead of Cure2 bomb constantly to make sure they live.

    its a situational cure, or to do extra cures to people over time when you are busy keeping someone else alive while ensuring your group as a whole lives. That is what regen is for.
    This is what I thought regen would be used for, it still seems really meh. It's just your basic HOT like in other games you keep up 100% of the time on tanks, but usually in other games, HOT's heal for more than direct heals over time, or cost much less MP, that isn't the case with regen.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    lets say you are fighting a boss, it does random target attacks (for instance lv32 boss). You can regen whoever gets blasted then go back to Cure1 spam the tank or esuna etc, while that other person is still getting healed.

    Or if their buttnaked and being ass raped by the first boss , you can regen when its readying its hammer beak and cure1 bomb them while its doing normal attacks instead of Cure2 bomb constantly to make sure they live.

    its a situational cure, or to do extra cures to people over time when you are busy keeping someone else alive while ensuring your group as a whole lives. That is what regen is for.
    Not sure but from what XIVdb insinuates Regen activates the GCD so popping a Regen on someone so you can focus on cures on another person still doesn't really make more sense than just using Cure 2 on them anyway. Both don't allow you to do anything for 2.5 seconds but Cure 2 is more potent and more MP efficient especially if you had been spamming Cure 1's for a chance at a free Cure II. There is also the issue that Regen is barely any stronger than Cure 1, so really instead of using Regen it would be more prudent to Cure 1 someone who took random damage for pretty much the same healing potency and a chance of getting a free Cure II for the tank.

    If Regen cost less MP then I could see its use in healing a DD or someone who got hit by potshots from a boss. They wouldn't likely be hit again so getting them topped off isn't as much a priority as keeping the tank healed so a cheaper and slower HoT would be good to use on them. I hate to bring up XI since that seems to be Taboo but this is pretty much how the Regen spells worked in there too. Regen 1 healed about the same (or more depending on merits) as a Cure II and cost less but you didn't see people using it over Cure II because its effect was gradual not instant.

  6. #26

    Assuming you have mp to spare and a small window of downtime. I see no harm in tossing a Regen on the tank. Even if it is gradual it still adds up and if you dont end up losing too much mana or wasting time. no harm no foul imo

    Edit: Also keep in mind you can always Divine Seal -> Regen to increase its effect seeing as how it lasts quite a bit of time.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    This is not a valid comparison at all. Switching to THM would require you to level an entirely new class to the level cap. Switching to shadow priest in WOW simply requires you to pay a very cheap 1-50g(1-2 days of dailies) respec cost. After dual spec was added, and I think it was added in TBC, 2006, you simply press a button out of combat and are instantly shadow spec.
    Yup not a valid comparison really, this isn't wow. Different game, different way of things being done. They probably intend the "healer" to be a "healer". It can do some damage, just like thm can do some healing but not enough to solo heal at higher levels.

    This is what I thought regen would be used for, it still seems really meh. It's just your basic HOT like in other games you keep up 100% of the time on tanks, but usually in other games, HOT's heal for more than direct heals over time, or cost much less MP, that isn't the case with regen.
    This sure does sound like Scholar which will be pretty much a HoT class (aka druid like mode), which has a possibility to pass over a HoT to WHM, and WHM can pass cure to SCH giving both classes a bit more healing power...! Both in regen power and direct cures...!

  8. #28
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    Yup not a valid comparison really, this isn't wow. Different game, different way of things being done.
    I <3 u

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    This sure does sound like Scholar which will be pretty much a HoT class (aka druid like mode), which has a possibility to pass over a HoT to WHM, and WHM can pass cure to SCH giving both classes a bit more healing power...! Both in regen power and direct cures...!
    Few problems I see with this. If that ability list for Arcanist is to be trusted, Arcanist doesn't get any HoTs naturally and Job skills can't be cross classed so any HoTs that SCH gains will be SCH exclusive. True a SCH could sub Cure 1 for emergency direct heals but that still doesn't change the fact that WHM's Regen really has no purpose as it isn't MP efficient in either form (It costs more MP than an equal level Cure and heals for less).

  10. #30

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyage1970 View Post
    Few problems I see with this. If that ability list for Arcanist is to be trusted, Arcanist doesn't get any HoTs naturally and Job skills can't be cross classed so any HoTs that SCH gains will be SCH exclusive. True a SCH could sub Cure 1 for emergency direct heals but that still doesn't change the fact that WHM's Regen really has no purpose as it isn't MP efficient in either form (It costs more MP than an equal level Cure and heals for less).
    Keep in mind Yoshi-P did just go on record saying he didnt have a problem changing 'class' skills to better meet the 'job' skills using Gla -> Drk as a reference point. (ill reiterate just so were clear: drk isnt confirmed comming from gla he just used it as an example.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    Yup not a valid comparison really, this isn't wow. Different game, different way of things being done. They probably intend the "healer" to be a "healer". It can do some damage, just like thm can do some healing but not enough to solo heal at higher levels.



    This sure does sound like Scholar which will be pretty much a HoT class (aka druid like mode), which has a possibility to pass over a HoT to WHM, and WHM can pass cure to SCH giving both classes a bit more healing power...! Both in regen power and direct cures...!
    Most healers in games have a HOT, and are not a HOT class. Their HOT is actually useful, unlike regen in this game. HOT classes simply have the strongest hots, and more HOT's than non-HOT classes. Regen should be a decent HOT, and not as weak as it seems to be.

    It's good to compare games of the same genre, you see what other devs do, what other games do, and you copy the good things, and improve on their good things. Yoshi-p has done this a lot, but it when it comes to the battle system, especially Conj(and gladiator too imo, but didn't really get past 21 on that class), you see a lot is lacking. You take a look at other MMO's, see how they do healers, and see how much more interactive, fun, and interesting their healers are. You also see how they have more spells - not that more spells = better, but just the fact they have more buttons to hit to respond to situations. WHM doesn't even really have "oh shit" cooldowns besides benediction, no real tank CD's, and only a 10s cast speed increase on a 5 minute cooldown. Divine seal is really really good + nice though, short cooldown, decent duration, and powerful. WHM definitely needs more powerful cooldowns like Divine Seal.

    I still see more, a lot more, that they can do with the class. I hope they expand on it, and fix some of these "meh" spells like stoneskin/regen.

  12. #32
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    Well, if at any point you need to move during a fight, Regen/Stoneskin seem like they would be useful. Since you kinda can't cast while moving.

    edit: Not Stoneskin, didn't realize it had a cast time. >.>

  13. #33
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    The only pro to Regen is that it's instant cast, it's inferior in every other way so the only time you should be throwing it out is if you're moving (so you can still do something when moving out of the way of AoEs like Ifrit's ground targeted crap. The spell really needs adjustments to make it useful more than 1% of the time.

  14. #34
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    Could someone fill us in on the cost of Regen vs Cure 1 and Cure 2 at 50?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    The only pro to Regen is that it's instant cast, it's inferior in every other way so the only time you should be throwing it out is if you're moving (so you can still do something when moving out of the way of AoEs like Ifrit's ground targeted crap. The spell really needs adjustments to make it useful more than 1% of the time.
    The worst part is it's not even instant cast, it's 2.5 sec cast since it invokes a 2.5 sec CD. Which you are saying with the "while moving", but I just thought I'd restate that if someone didn't understand what you meant. It's the exact same cast time as a cure 2 or 1, and heals for less than a cure2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scythiroth View Post
    Well, if at any point you need to move during a fight, Regen/Stoneskin seem like they would be useful. Since you kinda can't cast while moving.

    edit: Not Stoneskin, didn't realize it had a cast time. >.>
    Yeah, stoneskin definitely should not have a cast time. It's the power world: shield of this game, or that jedi shield thingy sages got. Reduce it's effectiveness if you have to, but make it instant. Also instants shouldn't invoke a 2.5 sec GCD, defeats the entire point of them being "instant".

    Quote Originally Posted by Druin View Post
    Keep in mind Yoshi-P did just go on record saying he didnt have a problem changing 'class' skills to better meet the 'job' skills using Gla -> Drk as a reference point. (ill reiterate just so were clear: drk isnt confirmed comming from gla he just used it as an example.)
    This is a good point I did not think of at all, they will probably change arcanists DOT's into HOT's for scholar, meaning it won't have any DOT's. I was assuming it was going to have DOT's and HOT's(lol) but now I think it won't.

  16. #36
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    So on CNJ, what seems to be a good strat for choosing attribute points? Full MND, full PIE, or some mix of both?

  17. #37

    @ 50 WHM it is:
    Regen: 319mana 50Potency over 21s (roughly 63 hp every 3 or so seconds it seems with whm af and standard other gear)
    Cure1: 133mana 300Potency
    Cure2: 266mana 500Potency

  18. #38
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    Holy shit that's way more than I expected. And just to double-check, the DoT/HoT ticks are... every 3 seconds, I guess?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Druin View Post
    @ 50 WHM it is:
    Regen: 319mana 50Potency over 21s
    Cure1: 133mana 300Potency
    Cure2: 266mana 500Potency
    Also keep in mind Cure can crit, so its 350 potency vs 500 potency with crits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    Also keep in mind Cure can crit, so its 350 potency vs 500 potency with crits.
    Regen is completely horrible, wow.

    Conj needs more spells like this:

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=47788
    Calls upon a guardian spirit to watch over the friendly target. The spirit increases the healing received by the target by 60%, and also prevents the target from dying by sacrificing itself. This sacrifice terminates the effect but heals the target of 50% of their maximum health. Lasts 10 sec. Castable while stunned.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=142723
    You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=73325
    You pull the spirit of the friendly party or raid target to you, instantly moving them directly in front of you.
    Fun, powerful, interesting, many ways to use them properly.

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