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  1. #1
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    Conjurer Discussion

    Conjurer is my favorite class, probably one of the most interactive classes, but it's still lacking a lot.

    These are my experiences at a level29 Conj, and from being told stuff from multiple players, not sure if all this is true, so will be asking lots of quesitons

    Stoneskin seems like it's not worth casting because cure2 heals almost as much, if not more, and costs about the same MP or less, is this true?

    Esuna has a very long cast time, costs a good deal of mp(even with the chance to make it cost zero it's still a lot) and only removes 1 debuff, when most things spam debuffs in AOE, and apply multiple debuffs at once. Not really worth using so far. Does this change later on?

    Regen seems to not be worth casting like stoneskin. It's a HOT, it costs more than cure2 AND heals for less, plus needs to heal over time. The instant cast aspect of it seems nice, but does this make up for it's other faults? Is it true this spell is weaker than cure2?

    Lack of actual MP regen or really "managing" MP outside of just afking, using an ether, or not using any DPS spells/esuna and trying to stick mainly to cure. Does shroud of saints fix this at all?

    Now onto DPSing/soloing as a conj. Personally I find soloing as a conj extremely boring, sometimes you aero, then you spam stone. That's all you do, you spam 1 single DPS ability until the enemy dies, maybe take off cleric stance and heal if it's a tougher enemy, but generally, you spam stone and keep a long duration DOT up(sometimes) if the mob has decent HP. I find that very lacking, and I wish they would expand on this and make Conj much more interesting to solo with, especially since they FORCE you to do lots of solo content via solo only story instances. I really wish you could bring a friend into them, I don't find them hard, just boring and would be more enjoyable with someone to heal, since I did pick a Conj to heal, as I'm guessing pretty much everyone did. Seems to kinda contradict the entire point of being a Conj when you're forced to solo, be alone, and spam DPS spells as a pure support class.


    Overall, I find conj very enjoyable and fun to play in group content, leveling with someone, doing fates with someone, or dungeons. I still think it's very lacking though, and listed a lot of reasons why. I do wish the healing aspect of it was more interactive, it seems the freecure and other cure trait for cure3 seems to make it more interesting, but it still seems to be severely lacking compared to healers in other games. Especially WOW, I mean, disc priest has so many spells to manage, has to actually manage MP, has all types of spells, shields, HOT, prayer of mending, long cast heals, fast cast heals, haste proc on their shield(basically stoneskin), etc. There could be a lot more done to make Conj more interactive and more varied spells, and the entire dispel system in this game seems...very badly done.

    What does everyone else think about Conjurer?

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    Can we really talk about it, or it's gonna turn into another mad thread?

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    Started as a MRD in beta3 (new character), ended up on CNJ and took it all the way to 35. I really enjoy it, though part of that is because it gets me groups instantly (and all my friends groups instantly when we're partied up, but not quite a full group of 4).

    Stoneskin is good if you know you're just sitting on MP between fights. It lasts 30 minutes now (I think?) so it's great to throw on everyone when you know you'll be at full MP, at the very least. It's also useful if your tank has a high max HP, since the amount blocked is based off of that. That said, I haven't used it much... I keep forgetting that I have it.

    The only times I've found Esuna to be necessary is to remove long-duration paralyze (paralyze really cripples casters, and can mess up PGL rotations) and the potent poisons from the Brayflox boss (Poison +1, +2, and +3).

    Regen / Shroud of Saints discussion... I don't know, I've been using a fresh beta3 character, so I don't have access to those. With as broken as Regen was in 1.0, I'm not surprised that it's been toned down a bit, but I sure hope it's not garbage.

    I really enjoy CNJ soloing. I find it odd that you say it's boring, because I find that it's the most complex of the jobs that I've used. I'll admit that it can be boring if you're fighting low- or same-level stuff, but have you tried to fight things that are much above your level? I know that my strategy and skill will be the deciding factor in whether or not I succeed. Start with Stone (for Heavy), follow up with Wind and run backwards while your spell recast comes back up. Stone 2 until it reaches you. Water for knockback and bind. Back up a bit, and wait until the bind debuff falls to 1s, start casting stone for a fresh Heavy (need to make sure it doesn't hit until after the Bind wears or it will get fully resisted). Wind again, backup, then stone 2s. If it still has a decent amount of HP by the time it reaches you again, Repose and move, then start the process all over again all whilst making sure not to pull the target outside of its leashing area. Change the strategy up if it's a caster (open with Thunder instead of Stone; always use Repose instead of Water). Using this strategy, I was able to solo my entire non-dungeon page 4 hunting log at level 33. The hardest things were definitely the lv39 Treants because of their stupidly small leashing area, so I couldn't back up as much as I wanted.

    I am so glad that DoT doesn't break sleep in this game.

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    Could costs be adjusted? Sure, but stoneskin and regen are preventative spells not really reactionary like the Cure spell line. It may cost a bit more but it serves to help maintain mp. During curespam you're regaining very little. If say your target had a dot(poison, shock etc) it's best to try to keep them from bleeding as much hp as possible. I've noticed that mp conservation on cnj/whm seems to be very focused on time management and taking advantage of things like freecure. You can regen a good deal of mp by spacing cures which brings be back to regen and stoneskin. Using these two spells as preventative measures than reactionary they are very worth casting. You can't cast a cure outside of battle (regain mp to full) and have it activate on the field. Stoneskin will likely become more potent as you level. Is there still an enhancing magic potency? Haven't checked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thiefami View Post
    Stoneskin will likely become more potent as you level. Is there still an enhancing magic potency? Haven't checked.
    No enhancing skill anymore

    Stoneskin is as powerful as a direct % of your target's max HP (starts at 15%, boosted to 18% with the lv36 trait), so I guess teeechnically it goes up as you level because everyone's HP goes up as they level, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that you leveled up. ...or at least, that's what the skill description on xivdb would lead me to believe, I haven't actually done any testing.

    In response to the post below, because I'll feel like a dick if I make every other post...
    VIT only helped in 1.0 because it increased your Enhancing Skill. If that's gone in 2.0 (it's certainly not in the stat window, and the description sounds pretty static), then it's highly unlikely VIT will do anything now.

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    If it's like 1.0 Vit helps you enhance Stoneskin

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    The thing with spells like Esuna and Regen is that CNJ in 1.0 had an ability (Sacred Prism) that turns a single target spell, into a party AOE spell. It was also on a relatively low recast timer, so it made Regen viable because you'd turn it into an 8 party member AOE. It's the same with Esuna, everyone is poisoned? AOE Esuna.

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    Maybe it'll be a quested skill 30+? I'd really hope they wouldn't remove a cool utility skill for good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reve View Post
    The thing with spells like Esuna and Regen is that CNJ in 1.0 had an ability (Sacred Prism) that turns a single target spell, into a party AOE spell. It was also on a relatively low recast timer, so it made Regen viable because you'd turn it into an 8 party member AOE. It's the same with Esuna, everyone is poisoned? AOE Esuna.
    Yeah but SE removed 2 imo critical WHM skills
    Sacred Prism is gone atm no AOE
    Somethiing Mind (forgot the name) It was like a sublimation from FFXI SCH, that is also gone

    Those are as for now in the beta phase 3

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    Full skill lists are on xivdb, so unless it ends up as a cross-classable skill from ACN, it's definitely gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reve View Post
    The thing with spells like Esuna and Regen is that CNJ in 1.0 had an ability (Sacred Prism) that turns a single target spell, into a party AOE spell. It was also on a relatively low recast timer, so it made Regen viable because you'd turn it into an 8 party member AOE. It's the same with Esuna, everyone is poisoned? AOE Esuna.
    Stuff like sacred prism(accession from ffxi), penury, the +enhancing duration JA, sublimation, etc would make Conj more enjoyable. That would also make esuna actually worth casting. Kinda weird that Conj is less interactive as a healer than SCH or WHM in ffxi O_o SCH and WHM are also the least interactive healers ever, compare it to something like this from wow:
    http://www.icy-veins.com/discipline-...owns-abilities

    Really gotta ask what Yoshi-P was thinking when WOW's disc priest is so complex and interactive. Seriously, look at how much more interesting Disc priest is compared to Conj..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Stuff like sacred prism(accession from ffxi), penury, the +enhancing duration JA, sublimation, etc would make Conj more enjoyable. That would also make esuna actually worth casting. Kinda weird that Conj is less interactive as a healer than SCH or WHM in ffxi O_o SCH and WHM are also the least interactive healers ever, compare it to something like this from wow:
    http://www.icy-veins.com/discipline-...owns-abilities

    Really gotta ask what Yoshi-P was thinking when WOW's disc priest is so complex and interactive.
    There we go FFXI again

  13. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Stuff like sacred prism(accession from ffxi), penury, the +enhancing duration JA, sublimation, etc would make Conj more enjoyable. That would also make esuna actually worth casting. Kinda weird that Conj is less interactive as a healer than SCH or WHM in ffxi O_o SCH and WHM are also the least interactive healers ever, compare it to something like this from wow:
    http://www.icy-veins.com/discipline-...owns-abilities

    Really gotta ask what Yoshi-P was thinking when WOW's disc priest is so complex and interactive.
    gdi

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    Remember this WHM will be boring if you make it boring

    Learn your skills, place your spells strategicly on your bar. And you will be able to do much more

    I can sleep nuke heal and open doors + chests in brayflox NP and send some random esunas



    The job is not boring, the player is

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    The title is funny but passive-aggressive

    Kick her out of the XIV section instead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    Remember this WHM will be boring if you make it boring

    Learn your skills, place your spells strategicly on your bar. And you will be able to do much more

    I can sleep nuke heal and open doors + chests in brayflox NP and send some random esunas



    The job is not boring, the player is
    I think the class is really fun and enjoyable, I just think there's so much more they could do with it. I really enjoyed SWTOR's sage healer in 1.0, was my favorite healer in any MMO ever for a long time. Cleric in aion was pretty fun too, in PVP at least, had a root and some DPS and CC. I also liked mystic in aion, lock on healing was really fun. I just think there's so much more they could do with Conj, and I hope they do more with it ; ; It's still my favorite class by far, might change when scholar is released but we will see.

  17. #17

    I played conj almost exclusively this beta and I had whm unlocked and at 50 so I took the time to test it out. To be fair nothing was high enough level to put up much of a fight for 50s that I found but I tried anyways.

    I really enjoy the healing system for them. I've heard people dislike the proc system, but I'm leaning in favor of it atm. Plus the fact that medica 2 provides a bonus of regen is a nice touch.
    The way I've found is: Cure = tank is high/full hp. Cure II = freecure proc/tank is below 40%ish/half. Cure III = Overcure proc(in which case wait till tank drops a bit and reapply regen or wait a sec for mana)/tank and melee need hp. Medica = minor hp drop of party. Medica 2 = stupid amounts of excessive mana to give tank and party regen effect/big party heals. Keep regen up when needed and toss stoneskin when tank is full (normally when pld is @ full and pops Dmg resist or when warrior pops max hp up).

    I can't talk much for Cure 3 and Medica 2 cause I didn't have many chances to use them properly, however I definitely see where they are going with the heal spells.

    In terms of mana usage, to be honest I hardly ran outta mana. With a solid pld rotating his def skills and a warrior self healing like a baus I had plenty of time to regain mana. The only times I got close to running out was the first boss of brayflox and even then it wasn't too bad. With freecure procs, which 15% is pretty high, I don't think mana will be a problem except for a few fights. Lets not mention the fact that shroud of saints is a 80 potency refresh for 15sec on a 3min CD.

    To be fair I came at this from a level 50 perspective not from a leveling one so other people's experiences may be different

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Stoneskin seems like it's not worth casting because cure2 heals almost as much, if not more, and costs about the same MP or less, is this true?
    Stoneskin is nice for a "prefight damage absorber", its not ment to use in place of cure, it lasts 30min on whoever you cast it on. So you cast it on people like the ranged/non tank before a boss fight, or while herp derping waiting in the "wait for PS3 people to load" ring.

    Esuna has a very long cast time, costs a good deal of mp(even with the chance to make it cost zero it's still a lot) and only removes 1 debuff, when most things spam debuffs in AOE, and apply multiple debuffs at once. Not really worth using so far. Does this change later on?
    This removes 1 debuff "and all of its stacks", this seems pretty useless except to remove stuff like, paralyze off the tank, or mainly to remove the poison from the boss in th lv32 instance.

    Regen seems to not be worth casting like stoneskin. It's a HOT, it costs more than cure2 AND heals for less, plus needs to heal over time. The instant cast aspect of it seems nice, but does this make up for it's other faults? Is it true this spell is weaker than cure2?
    Last I recall from looking (currently at work), only medica 2 at Lv like 50? has a regen effect. I'm sure it will have its use by that level for 4man/raid content.


    Lack of actual MP regen or really "managing" MP outside of just afking, using an ether, or not using any DPS spells/esuna and trying to stick mainly to cure. Does shroud of saints fix this at all?
    no idea, but if ya get good gear (namely green quality dungeon gear) you'll have a noticeably large amount of MP, I have around 1300 or so at lv 32. Unless the dps/tank is herp derp sitting in poison, I usually don't have a mana issue.

    Now onto DPSing/soloing as a conj. Personally I find soloing as a conj extremely boring, sometimes you aero, then you spam stone. That's all you do, you spam 1 single DPS ability until the enemy dies, maybe take off cleric stance and heal if it's a tougher enemy, but generally, you spam stone and keep a long duration DOT up(sometimes) if the mob has decent HP. I find that very lacking, and I wish they would expand on this and make Conj much more interesting to solo with, especially since they FORCE you to do lots of solo content via solo only story instances. I really wish you could bring a friend into them, I don't find them hard, just boring and would be more enjoyable with someone to heal, since I did pick a Conj to heal, as I'm guessing pretty much everyone did. Seems to kinda contradict the entire point of being a Conj when you're forced to solo, be alone, and spam DPS spells as a pure support class.
    its a healer class, dedicated to healing, I would not expect much out of it, as its main thing is healing, not obliterating mobs via thm nukes. WHM soulstone I hear adds more dps spells, however I never got whm so dunno besides the holy spell (if it still has it in 2.0)

    Overall, I find conj very enjoyable and fun to play in group content, leveling with someone, doing fates with someone, or dungeons. I still think it's very lacking though, and listed a lot of reasons why. I do wish the healing aspect of it was more interactive, it seems the freecure and other cure trait for cure3 seems to make it more interesting, but it still seems to be severely lacking compared to healers in other games. Especially WOW, I mean, disc priest has so many spells to manage, has to actually manage MP, has all types of spells, shields, HOT, prayer of mending, long cast heals, fast cast heals, haste proc on their shield(basically stoneskin), etc. There could be a lot more done to make Conj more interactive and more varied spells, and the entire dispel system in this game seems...very badly done.

    What does everyone else think about Conjurer?
    priest was pretty boring and basic back in the early days of wow, pre TBC.
    pre TBC talent calculator for the priest, you can see just how "amazing" those -few second cooldowns, +1% crit chance to a cure.. amazingness that stuff is.

    Priest back then pretty much killed stuff spamming... smite... smite smite smite smite smite smite, oh forgot it had shadow word pain (pretty much the same as aero for ffxiv). oh and there was no "talent switch" or pay service if I recall back then, so once you go one path, thats it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    priest was pretty boring and basic back in the early days of wow, pre TBC.
    Not sure what point you're trying to make here. That we may have to wait 4 years before CNJ isn't boring and basic, or what?

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    Priest could spec shadow and deal damage, comparing it to a HEALER SPECCED priest is completely insane, especially since they introduced Dual spec in TBC(i think?), even if they didn't, it cost so little to respec it didn't matter. A conj has no way to spec for damage, and a holy/disc spcced priest never expects to deal damage or have interactive damage dealing. A conj, by default, should have a more fun and interactive DPS rotation. Same with healing. None of that matters, because I am comparing a 2013 , almost 2014 game to multiple games that are all much, much MUCH older than FF14.

    That also doesn't matter though, because I'm just curious what people think about Conj. I still feel it should be done a lbetter though. It has allt he basic abilities, but should use some more complex ones.

    Last I recall from looking (currently at work), only medica 2 at Lv like 50? has a regen effect. I'm sure it will have its use by that level for 4man/raid content.
    Regen is a spell...

    priest was pretty boring and basic back in the early days of wow, pre TBC.
    http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?cat...w=Talents.View
    pre TBC talent calculator for the priest, you can see just how "amazing" those -few second cooldowns, +1% crit chance to a cure.. amazingness that stuff is.
    Talent trees, the thing FF14 doesn't even have a single ounce of, yes. I wasn't talking about talent trees though, I was talking about the actual spells, interaction, rotations, etc. A priest had to do a lot, even in TBC, and TBC was 2006 which is 7 years ago, WOW has evolved since then.

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