Diablo III: Reaper of Souls

[Karbuncle]

Maybe you guys should get over your fixation on loot. You may find you enjoy the game more.

That might be the one thing I think you've said that I've found to be incredibly dumb. Diablo, and basically the entire Action RPG genre, is about loot grinding, and relies on a "Carrot on a stick" to keep the major portion of their base interested. While the gameplay itself has appeal to some, without the loot grind it would be unplayable and boring after a certain point (I mean, why grind 1000 rifts if the only experience is the gameplay or clicking a mouse on some enemies?). The gameplay and the loot work well together, but its the combined experience that makes it great... like Borderlands, if it was just a FPS, it probably would not have gotten as far as it did, despite its unique style and humor. It'd done well, but not as well.

Adding "Exclusive powerful" legendaries to a system they can clearly see has divided a good portion of the community was just a bad call. Especially if these legendaries are build changers. While most builds can work, some items undoubtedly completely change how you use the build, their viability, or increase their effectiveness greatly... like say Wand of Woh, Cloak of Garwulf, (Theres 1hand xbow that "MFDs" everything), a (Bow?) that turns Elemenal arrows into Hatred gens... so on. Some legendaries undoubtedly make certain builds far more usable and sometimes unlock completely new builds only available with that weapon (I.E the Elemental Arrow one).

While I enjoy building around what i get (I have a Physical build atm on DH cause almost everything I've gotten thats good rolled physical, I make it work), the only reason i continue to play is undoubtedly finding that legendary that starts me down a new build path (Like Cinder/Magefist). It why i sometimes keep "meh" Legendaries that don't fall into my current build, but have something like "Thunder Skill+20" because maybe I'll find a use for them if I get more thunder skill+ gear, or throw it on my MNK, or something. Finding loot that unlocks new possibilities is what these grinders are all about.

Edited_Alot
Editin: I would like to mention, If i found out there was a bow/xbow/whatever in the Seasons system that made "Bola" fire 2 more projectilces (similar to mirror ball), I'd have to play that... cause I've loved Bola builds but they're kinda weak i comparison... but a Bola build with 2 Extra projectiles coupled with the Quiver that causes them to explode instantly would make my Bola+Eminent doom build quite a bit more enjoyable, and isn't enjoyment your argument :D

[Anakron]

I think building your build around your drops is a lot more fun than fiending for specific drops to suit the needs of your build...

I like this idea as well, but with elemental and active skill damage modifiers, I feel pigeonholed into a build once I've started, even though by nature I like to mess around with different builds. And if I don't take any of them, then I'm doing at least 50% less damage than I could be, which kinda sucks.

And there are things like Cindercoat which help so much that you'd have to really not care about performance to not try and get it (or not use it if you have it).

[Oxyminus]

I like this idea as well, but with elemental and active skill damage modifiers, I feel pigeonholed into a build once I've started, even though by nature I like to mess around with different builds. And if I don't take any of them, then I'm doing at least 50% less damage than I could be, which kinda sucks.

And there are things like Cindercoat which help so much that you'd have to really not care about performance to not try and get it (or not use it if you have it).

Yeah the philosophy is mostly hindered by the fact that once you start enchanting gear to a particular element/build it can be costly to switch, other option is to gimp your damage.

But generally speaking, I just try to keep an open mind and working with drops, instead of saying "I NEED this drop and this drop alone"... Sure there are drops and combos out there I'd love to tinker with, but I rather find utilization for almost any unique drop along the way.

[Plow]

i have a krider that will be godlike when they fix elemental damage (almost perfect roll on holy damage or some shit, dex, socket, and vit to reroll into +%dmg)

I'll be happy to rock an elemental + fok build or some shit at that point, but it'll take me a long while to get a frost set that can even remotely begin to compare to my fire stuff. And even then, it won't be as powerful unless there's something new from seasons or dh gets a bunch of buffs.

[aurik]

Diablo, and basically the entire Action RPG genre, is about loot grinding, and relies on a "Carrot on a stick" to keep the major portion of their base interested. While the gameplay itself has appeal to some, without the loot grind it would be unplayable and boring after a certain point (I mean, why grind 1000 rifts if the only experience is the gameplay or clicking a mouse on some enemies?).

Wrong! The entire point of the game is to kill hordes of monsters. Sure, loot helps you do that, but it is a means to an end--you get loot so you can kill monsters better, not the other way around.

[Krandor]

And there's no point to killing the monsters without some incentive. No one is playing these games for the story, they're playing to get cool items.

[Plow]

to help them kill stuff better


it's both ways

[Fievel]

People enjoy getting better gear because it helps them progress their characters, people like making progress. The gear helps kill monsters, which helps them get more gear, but it's all just for the sake of progress.

Loot is the main thing that progresses your character. Without it the game would be shitty and boring, so as others have said, it's a loot driven game.

[aurik]

And there's no point to killing the monsters without some incentive. No one is playing these games for the story, they're playing to get cool items.

The point in killing monsters is that it is fun to kill monsters. It literally is the reason to play the game. If you're not having fun killing monsters on its own right, you should quit "playing". Don't let fictitious loot incentivize you to do things that you don't enjoy.

[Plow]

you kill things to get better loot to kill things better to get better loot to kill things better to get better loot to kill things better

the goal of seasons is to keep you from reaching a point where you're "done," which some people would actually like to achieve


if you want to play more at that point, or enough to get to that point, should be up to the individual

[aurik]

you kill things to get better loot to kill things better to get better loot to kill things better to get better loot to kill things better

The key here is that this statement starts and ends with killing things, not the other way around. Which means ultimately you can remove the whole loot progression and still have the core engagement of a fun game.

I mean, if people are simply killing stuff because they want loot, they might as well save time and effort, and just do the same operation by flipping a coin or rolling a die.

[Karbuncle]

Wrong! The entire point of the game is to kill hordes of monsters. Sure, loot helps you do that, but it is a means to an end--you get loot so you can kill monsters better, not the other way around.

Someone explained it so much better here:

And there's no point to killing the monsters without some incentive. No one is playing these games for the story, they're playing to get cool items.

Still, I can safely say killing the enemies in itself is a means to an end. When i get an item that drops that really helps my build, Its usually "Now i can tackle Tier (X) for a chance at better items!" not "Now i can press 1-2-3-4 and Left click slightly less!! WOO". I.E I'm excited the drop lets me to tackle higher tiers so I have a chance at better drops, not that the things exploding are doing so a little quicker.

On that note, I should probably mention that we are both right, kinda, and both wrong. Fun is subjective, some enjoy the gear, some enjoy left clicking their mouse through hordes of enemies for hours. I consider myself the more reasonable one, but you sir can enjoy all the rigorous index finger work out enjoyment you want.. I'll stick to looking for cool and interesting items, which is what drew me to D2, and later D3.

The key here is that this statement starts and ends with killing things, not the other way around. Which means ultimately you can remove the whole loot progression and still have the core engagement of a fun game.

I mean, if people are simply killing stuff because they want loot, they might as well save time and effort, and just do the same operation by flipping a coin or rolling a die.

Words.

While the gameplay itself has appeal to some, without the loot grind it would be unplayable and boring after a certain point (I mean, why grind 1000 rifts if the only experience is the gameplay or clicking a mouse on some enemies?). The gameplay and the loot work well together, but its the combined experience that makes it great... like Borderlands, if it was just a FPS, it probably would not have gotten as far as it did, despite its unique style and humor. It'd done well, but not as well.

Literally on the same page, and from a post you actually quoted. Strategically ignored?

And on that note, the being forced into the act of killing to get more loot doesn't validate your point that the game is about the killing. Killing is a step in the game, the majority of people enjoy the fruits of the kills, the items, not the clickclickclickclick*drinksoda*click.. but the "OOH SHINY". One without the other would be boring. Its the property of both that draws us in, but what we find fun will be subjective. normal people find the shiny green/gold beam of light to be the highlight of their fun, other(you) like clicking your mouse a lot. Its subjective.

[aurik]

Again, you might as well save yourself time and just use http://www.random.org/integers/

[Karbuncle]

You either cannot read or you didn't bring a candle into the ground with your head.

[Anakron]

The key here is that this statement starts and ends with killing things, not the other way around. Which means ultimately you can remove the whole loot progression and still have the core engagement of a fun game.

That kinda sounds like Diablo 3 with the AH (no loot progression from killing). And we all know how that went.

(though admittedly many still played)

[Arximiro]

Someone answer my question from last page geez

[aurik]

That kinda sounds like Diablo 3 with the AH (no loot progression from killing). And we all know how that went.

(though admittedly many still played)

D3V was actually really good. The problem is that people are generally stupid, and felt compelled to buy items from the AH rather than engage in the core mechanic of the game (kill monsters), and felt compelled to play in the highest difficulty possible (A3+ Inferno) rather than play at a level that roughly matched their character's capabilities.

[Arvin]

wrong.

[Arvin]

It's a loot based game get the fuck over it, jesus christ. Vanilla D3 was terrible and your argument about inferno is stupid.

[aurik]

Vanilla D3 was great, and it's too bad you're not smart enough to realize that. Enjoy your burnout.