The crafting & gathering thread.

[Twilight Sky]

You probably live in the boonies of the probability function. You need to pray to the RNG gods more, obviously.

lol yeah but a fews hours after saying that, I got one and it landed me an HQ gear, for 100%. I was like "whoa!".

[YukonWildAss]

Has anyone managed to get any crafting materia from Aetheryte Rings? I just got a Wind III and Mind III worth a grand total of 500g for the both of them. I want to confirm it is possible to get crafting materia for these before I ever convert them again.

[Spider-Dan]

In any case, I agree that you shouldn't take crafting out of context other abilities, but it's also true that you can't put all abilities into context with each other unless you first understand their properties in isolation. You can't just jump to the end without going through the beginning. I suppose you can in isolated scenarios (such as this one), but that's not really very interesting. I think it's better to start with basic comparisons (which by the way are still useful for new players who perhaps don't have every ability yet) and build up to more complicated relationships.

The more useful comparison is to say:

- if you have Hasty Touch, use that for all quality gains, unless
-- you are in a special condition (e.g. Excellent) where you need a large quality gain action, in which case you use your most potent quality gain available, unless
--- you have limited CP available, in which case you use the most potent quality gain you can afford

In short, there's really very little reason to use Basic Touch or Standard Touch at all, and in the limited situations where you would use one of them, CP efficiency is not likely to be a driving factor as much as pure quality potency.

Must have done 2,000 synths and got exactly 1 excellent.

How many Poors have you gotten? Every Poor is after an Excellent, and Poor is much harder to miss.

[Niiro]

On 80 dura synths when TotT is proccing out the ass I'll use Basic ir order to not waste CP gain from CZ/potential future TotTs.

That's about it.

[Pyros Eien]

I use Basic when I'm running out of dura, still have one touch to go and have more CP than I need for the Byregot bomb combo. Basic is a guaranteed touch vs another Hasty, and that CP would be wasted anyway. If I have a lot more I'll use Standard but that happens very rarely. I will also sometimes use Basic on Good in the same case but if it pops 2 or 3 moves from the Byregot bomb and I know I'm spamming hasty anyway but again have too much CP. To sum it up, I use it as my go to CP dump before I finish a craft, since it builds Inner Quiet 100% of the time(with SH2 obviously). And also use it when Good keeps procing early in the craft but that's rare as hell.

Oh and lately I've been using Basic on Excelent instead of Advanced, if the excelent is early(if it's late I Byregot it). I don't feel an early excelent is worth fucking up my usual rotation, it's hard to recover efficiently from the 48CP cost of Advanced and I don't need the progress to begin with. I Basic since it's 100%, it's only one good worth of CP so it's easy to recover from, the progress is mostly there to offset the loss on the Poor that follows, and to finish crafts faster.

[Raldo]

So, today I was really bored and thought to myself, "I'm going to spiritbond some crafting gear, and see what I get!". 300 lv50 quick-synths later, and this is what I got:


I didn't get to blow up the headpiece, since I acquired it later than all the rest of my gear, so it didn't have enough spiritbond on it.

Not pictured (because they spiritbonded well before I was done):
• HQ Raptorskin Merch. Pouch --> Craftsman's Competence III
• NQ Militia Wristlets --> Craftsman's Command III
• NQ Aetheryte Ring --> Dexterity III
• NQ Spinel Ring --> Wind III

I'm pleased to see that the Aetheryte Rings can turn into something besides shit elemental materia, since that's what I had heard up until this point.

Note: I made a fresh HQ iLvl55 item just to see how much spiritbond it would get. After my 300 quick-synths, it has 82% spiritbond. That's not a scientific data point, since I didn't keep track of how many quick-synths blew up, and I was wearing +1 spiritbond for some portion of the synths.

[Niiro]

What level was the synth?

Also I guess aertheryte rings are considered non-craft items I guess, kind of silly.

So you can either wear them for the spiritbond/melds bonus or use gimpier electrum crafting rings to have something to convert.

[Churchill]

I know it feels it breaks all the time when you're using the lower tier touches, but I'm only comparing Quality / CP. In terms of Quality / CP, and without stacking anything else like Steady Hand, Basic Touch is still better because you can do it again.

Basic Touch is 18 CP and Standard Touch is 32 CP (I believe). Even if you breka the first Basic Touch, you can still do another one and only have used up barely more CP than if you had used Standard Touch. So the fact that you still can use the ability a second time makes up for the lower success rate.

In any case, this isn't 100% of the story, as durability comes into play (if you only have 20 durability left, for example, then you should obviously use Standard Touch as this is the last action before you need to complete the synth).


In any case, like I said I'm only comparing Quality / CP here, and in terms of Quality / CP, Basic is always better than Standard (I don't have Advanced yet, so I don't know what the stats are and how it compares).

Sure you can use Steady Hand, but that also uses up CP. Would that CP be more efficiently used on something else? It's not immediately obvious. Needs more research. the easiest place to start though is just by comparing abilities against each other directly without considering stacking.

?

What are you researching exactly? I will reclaim one, maybe two 2-Star 40 dura synths because I wasn't going to HQ. Forget about 80 dura. There's not a lot of secrets out there, my only issue with doing it from day 1 was I was missing an ability.

[Niiro]

I don't really have any idea what they're trying to say.

It should be painfully obvious to anyone that just looks at the abilities that the progression of Basic -> Standard -> Advanced is lower efficiency for higher single action gains and success rate.

[Raldo]

What level was the synth?

I mentioned the level up in the first sentence, but it's easy to miss (and not entirely clear whether it was my level or the synth level).

To be exact, it was Lv50 (Mega-Ether)

[OnlyAura]

I don't really have any idea what they're trying to say.

It should be painfully obvious to anyone that just looks at the abilities that the progression of Basic -> Standard -> Advanced is lower efficiency for higher single action gains and success rate.

If it's painfully obvious then either you can do complex computations in your head, or you're reasoning isn't sound.

If you reduce the CP cost of Standard by only 2, it becomes more efficient than Basic for Excellents. Not sure what's painfully obvious about that, really.

[Seravi Edalborez]

That might hold water if Excellent was guaranteed to come up once a synth. It doesn't. Looking at abilities in a vacuum doesn't really matter when the system is just that easy.

You can argue for CP efficiency on that small of a scale but that runs into the second hurdle of Durability, which is itself a CP sink.

[Akiyama]

I mentioned the level up in the first sentence, but it's easy to miss (and not entirely clear whether it was my level or the synth level).

To be exact, it was Lv50 (Mega-Ether)

It sucks that quicksynthing is the best way to spiritbind your crafting gear (class specific) and offhand. I've been making (as a LTW) the boots/gloves/belt related crafting gear (The Raptor stuff) and then having a GSM friend make the accessories so I can go do either DD, or do CM-Speed Runs.. but ugh, what I'd give to have an easier way to spiritbind my offhand. D: Grade 4 from yours? Nice: o

[Niiro]

I'm actually quite surprised we were given the small mercy of only getting craft/gather materia from DoH/DoL appropriate gear, even more so that junky elemental resist crap doesn't appear to be in the result pool at all.

[OnlyAura]

That might hold water if Excellent was guaranteed to come up once a synth. It doesn't. Looking at abilities in a vacuum doesn't really matter when the system is just that easy.

You can argue for CP efficiency on that small of a scale but that runs into the second hurdle of Durability, which is itself a CP sink.

Disagree, its precisely due to the random nature of the condition that it's important to know how each ability stacks up against other abilities. Sure, we can try to always SH +HT, but that uses alot of durability for one thing and we cant guarantee that we'll never need to raise quality with SH down.

In any case, i promise you that there will be plenty of times where you're looking at a good/excellent and no buffs are up. When that happens, you need to know how abilities stack up against each other in isolation.

That being said, more useful than Q/CP is perhaps measuring Q/(CP*D)

[Seravi Edalborez]

In any case, i promise you that there will be plenty of times where you're looking at a good/excellent and no buffs are up. When that happens, you need to know how abilities stack up against each other in isolation.

All the more reason to use Advanced (90% success) over Basic (70%).

Crunch for Goods by all means but nobody is going to take a 30% chance at nothing (followed by a Poor, mind you) on Excellent if they have a choice.

[OnlyAura]

All the more reason to use Advanced (90% success) over Basic (70%).

Crunch for Goods by all means but nobody is going to take a 30% chance at nothing (followed by a Poor, mind you) on Excellent if they have a choice.

In that case I guess I would argue that you're not paying attention to the math. That advanced is costing you almost 50 CP, which you could use for 2-3 other actions.

Not sure why we're debating this really. If actual math shows that Basic on an Excellent gives .156N Quality / CP, and Advanced on an Excellent gives .15N, you would still choose Advanced out of the two (assuming that you've already decided to use some kind of touch, as opposed to a completely different ability)?

[Seravi Edalborez]

I don't know how many times I need to say success rate for you to understand that's a thing that happens, CP efficiency be damned.

Pulling numbers out of my ass (I look forward to being ripped into for prefacing this way), Let's say Basic(Excellent) + Hasty Touch (Normal) = Advanced (Excellent)
Efficiency (for Quality)
100%*4 + 100% vs 150%*4
500% vs 600%
Throw success rate in there, assume Hasty has Steady and Basic/Advanced have nothing buffing
(500%*.7) vs 600%*.9
350% vs 540%

CP spent: 40 (assuming you did Steady+Hasty, 18 if you really wanted to take that 50%) vs 48
Dura used: 20 vs 10

My 2 gil

Edit: I forgot Excellent multiplier.

[OnlyAura]

I don't know how many times I need to say success rate for you to understand that's a thing that happens, CP efficiency be damned.

Pulling numbers out of my ass (I look forward to being ripped into for prefacing this way), Let's say Basic(Excellent) + Hasty Touch (Normal) = Advanced (Excellent)
100% + 100% vs 150%
Throw success rate in there, assume Hasty has Steady and Basic/Advanced have nothing buffing
2(100%*.7) vs 150%*.9
140% vs 135%

CP spent: 40 (assuming you did Steady+Hasty, 18 if you really wanted to take that 50%) vs 48

So Advanced is 5% worse for Quality gained (a little more probably because the Hasty will have another IQ stack). For 10 less durability spent. I'm gonna take that every time because when I need to tank up on Dura, that's 90/160/56(preventive) CP. Can't do that forever.

That's my 2 gil.

The cp efficiency calculation i presented factors in success rate. Basic is still better

Edit: My original numbers only compared Basic vs Standard. But I went ahead and factored in Advanced as well. Also I fixed a slight error in the original table:

Basic 0.038888889 0.058333333 0.155555556
Standard 0.03125 0.046875 0.125
Advanced 0.028125 0.0421875 0.1125

First column is for Normal, second is Good, third is Excellent. So not only is Basic better, but it's *alot* better (almost 50%). Even factoring in success rate.

[shepardG]

Anyone found/read about craft/control caps for HQ craft armor? Should I be pushing CP materia on most of the pieces? ( when other stats are capped)