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  1. #101
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    It goes:

    Waste Not II
    Master's Mend II
    Waste Not
    Manipulation
    Master's Mend

    That being said, WN2 has a VERY low probability of actually realizing that efficiency, given that the only way to realize it is to go 8 straight turns without popping any other ability (notably: Tricks of the Trade).

  2. #102
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Does the CUL50 ability just make it so your failed synth has a 90% chance of returning your mats, for free? Does it last for a certain number of turns?
    So, I don't think this was ever answered. The CUL50 ability costs 50-some CP. I noticed it while looking over my wife's shoulder. Just throwing this out there for anyone who might've still thought it was free.

  3. #103

    Do the old Hamlet items serve any purpose anymore?

    ie. Light kidney ore

  4. #104
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    If it doesn't say "Crafting Material" it has no current use

  5. #105
    Old Odin
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    Not sure if this is common knowledge (just hit 50 CRP like an hour ago) but Byregot's Blessing counts as a Touch for the purposes of Great Strides.

  6. #106
    Hydra
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    So, I obviously don't post here frequently, but I do lurk quite a bit. I've recently done a few studies on various crafting mechanics and figured I'd share my results, since they may be of interest to some of you. I have most of these in an Excel spreadsheet, but haven't bothered to upload it on Google, so bare with me if I don't share the raw data. Most of these results are fairly easy to confirm for yourself.

    First, I performed a bunch of different crafts with varying class and recipe levels in order to figure out the relationship between Control and Quality Gained. To do this, I started a recipe, used Steady Hands and performed a Basic Touch (100% efficiency) a number of times at different levels of Control, ignoring an result not on Normal condition. I also repeated the process with Inner Focus active to determine the mechanism of that buff.

    The results indicate that Control and the basic quality gain are a nice, simple linear function (with R-squared of 0.9997, for those that care) of:

    Code:
    "Base Quality Gain" = 0.36 * (Control) + 34
    This "Base Quality Gain" is of course multiplied by the Touch efficiency and other boosts, such as Condition modifiers.

    Another finding from this test is that your crafter level and the difficulty of the recipe have no effect on the amount of quality gained. In other words, a successful Touch will add the same quality on a level 10 recipe as a level 50. -Later testing shows this to be inaccurate. Each level that a craft is above your job seems to cause a 5% reduction in quality gains. See following posts for details. - Rehwyn

    Second, Inner Focus is a 20% boost to Control per prior successful Touch. After five successful touches, your Control is twice what it was at the start. After ten successful touches, it's triple. However, because of the relationship between Control and Quality (see above), it is not a 20% boost to Base Quality Gain per prior Touch. Without going into the details, Inner Touch adds less additional quality with low base Control (5.3% greater Quality per prior Touch with 34 starting Control) and gradually increases, reactiong 9.8% greater with 90 starting Control and (based on the above formula) 15.2% greater Quality per prior touch at 300 Control. Eventually, it'd get close to 20% greater per touch, but that would require Control far higher than possible.

    Here's a chart of how much the Base Quality Gain is improved per prior Touch, based on the above formula.

    Code:
    Base Ctrl	Qual Increase per IF#
    50		6.92%
    100		10.29%
    150		12.27%
    200		13.58%
    250		14.52%
    300		15.21%
    350		15.75%
    In other words, if you had 200 Control when you started and have used five Touches since Inner Focus, your next Touch will add 67.9% (5 * 13.58%) more Quality than if you had not used Inner Focus. Even without Byregot's Blessing, Inner Focus becomes CP efficient rather quickly with any decent amount of Control.

    The Inner Focus test was relatively simple, because you can actually see the change in Control if you open your character tab. Still, I related the results I got to the previous formula and confirmed the Control value in the character sheet was accurate.

    On a related note, it is for this exact same reason that Innovation will not cause a 50% increase in Quality, since it is a 50% Control boost instead. What I'd like to test is how Innovation and Inner Focus affect each other, but I unfortunately do not have 50 goldsmith to test it. If they are multiplicative of each other, at the end of Hasty/TotT spam, throwing it in like Innovation > (Hasty/Basic) Touch > Great Strides > Byregot's Blessing would be even more ridiculous for the mere cost of 18 CP and 0 Durability.

    Third, I tried to derive the formula for Quality to HQ Chance, but it proved a bit beyond my means. To test this, I took Current Quality and divided it by the recipe's Max Quality, giving a % Quality. I recorded this value and the HQ % Chance at a variety of different levels. The results somewhat match a logistic function with an inflection point around 75% Quality, but running a logistic regression in excel is a pain and the graph didn't quite match by visual inspection later on anyways.

    The important conclusion from that test, as I'm sure people have noticed by now, was that the HQ chance is very flat until about 70% Quality, where it is about 25% HQ chance. After this, it shoots up to around 75% HQ chance at 80% Quality and then more gradually approaches 100% HQ chance. Based on this, you can look at the max quality of a recipe and estimate approximately how much quality you have to gain before your HQ chance becomes decent.

    Lastly, there was some question on how much CP Rumination returns. It's actually very simple, based on my observations:

    Code:
    IF#	CP Return
    1	15
    2	24
    3	32
    4	39
    5	45
    6	50
    7	54
    8	57
    9	59
    10	60
    While I did not personally test all of these, you'll notice that it starts at 15, then increases by 9, then again by 8, then by 7, 6, 5, 4, etc. I'd assume that at 11+ prior Touches, Rumination would continue to return 60 CP and not increase any further.

    While the above information doesn't exactly show a new method or steps of crafting, I hope this information was helpful and not too boring. Let me know if anything seems off and I'll see if I can look into it more.

  7. #107
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rehwyn View Post
    Another finding from this test is that your crafter level and the difficulty of the recipe have no effect on the amount of quality gained. In other words, a successful Touch will add the same quality on a level 10 recipe as a level 50.
    Not that I'm saying you're wrong, but there's some part of the equation we're missing, because otherwise your data would indicate that the only differences between a LV1 recipe and a LV50* recipe are 1) the length of the progress bar (i.e. difficulty) and 2) the length of the quality bar.

    Is there possibly some hidden variable for recipe level vs. [undetermined stat] for success rate?

    edit: Actually, I am saying that you're wrong. Ingenuity (lowers recipe to same level as you) makes a significant impact on my quality gains on a 50* recipe (spruce lumber).

    My normal starter sequence is Comfort Zone, Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, [Ingenuity or Waste Not], Hasty Touch. If I use Ingenuity, I get 155 quality on that Hasty Touch. If I use Waste Not (or nothing), I get 116.

  8. #108
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Not that I'm saying you're wrong, but there's some part of the equation we're missing, because otherwise your data would indicate that the only differences between a LV1 recipe and a LV50* recipe are 1) the length of the progress bar (i.e. difficulty) and 2) the length of the quality bar.

    Is there possibly some hidden variable for recipe level vs. [undetermined stat] for success rate?

    edit: Actually, I am saying that you're wrong. Ingenuity (lowers recipe to same level as you) makes a significant impact on my quality gains on a 50* recipe (spruce lumber).

    My normal starter sequence is Comfort Zone, Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, [Ingenuity or Waste Not], Hasty Touch. If I use Ingenuity, I get 155 quality on that Hasty Touch. If I use Waste Not (or nothing), I get 116.
    I suppose I should clarify. I'm still in the process of leveling my weaver so I was not able to test a 50* recipe. However, in all my tests of equal or level level recipes compared to crafter level, the quality gains were identical. This was the same on my carpenter, which is a lower level job.

    It was an oversight on my part to not test crafts above my current level, but based on what you're saying there might be some penalty specific to that situation. I'll have to look into that when I get the chance, but I'm fairly confident about crafts equal to or below your level.

    --Followup Info---

    So, thanks to what was posted above, I've done some followup tests on crafts above your current level.

    Repeating the tests with the same gear and job levels, I found the following results.

    For crafts +1 above my currently level, Quality Gains averaged around 95% of what I'd expect from my prior formula (and prior results) based on 10 samples at different Control values.
    For crafts +2 above my currently level, the gains were 90% of expected.
    For crafts +3 above my currently level, the gains were 85% of expected.

    This seems to indicated a 5% penalty for each level that the craft is above you. This also matches with your findings, since +5 levels would be a 25% penalty, and 75% of 155 = 116.25 quality.

    I repeated a few lower level crafts to confirm my previous findings and my repeat results were consistent with the original. In other words, you don't gain 5% per level a craft is below you.

    Thanks for bringing that up. I'll edit my post to strike out that segment and direct readers to the next posts.

    Next on my agenda is to look into Progress Gains, but that might be a few days due to some other work I need to finish.

  9. #109
    Yoshi P
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    Absolutely wonderful and incredibly helpful information. Thanks a ton and keep up the hard work.

  10. #110
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Head (HQ AF): 4 Craftsmanship; 5 Control; 0 CP
    - Optimum meld: Control IV, Craftsmanship II, Control I
    Where is Tier 4 crafting materia from? I tried converting misc Lv50 greens and HQ AF and I still only see Tier 3s. What am I missing here?

  11. #111
    D. Ring
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    I got literally every single one of my T4 materia from converting Cracked IVs from 1.0, so I can't really help you there. I have heard there is a chance to get T4s from iLvl50+ items (militia, etc.), but it takes so god damn long to spiritbond any of that shit, that I can't confirm or deny.

    One of these days, I'm going to run outside wearing a full set of Patrician's gear + militia accessories on my DoW just to see if shit spiritbonds faster.

  12. #112
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelan? View Post
    Where is Tier 4 crafting materia from? I tried converting misc Lv50 greens and HQ AF and I still only see Tier 3s. What am I missing here?
    I'm almost certain it has to be iLv.55+ to get Tier IV. So, when people finally run out of their 1.0 stockpile of Cracked IV... that shit is going to skyrocket. Also, it makes me regret using a bunch of IVs on my Fishing gear...

  13. #113
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    One of these days, I'm going to run outside wearing a full set of Patrician's gear + militia accessories on my DoW just to see if shit spiritbonds faster.
    I spent some time messing around with binding stuff last night and night and this morning. I did all my spirit bonding on BSM, making cobalt ingots (42) and cobalt rivets (43). The spiritbond gain seems to be directly related to the difference between the recipe's level and the ilvl of the item (which is why green shit takes forever and a day to bind). Doing 100 Lv16 synths didn't give any spritbond progress at all, so the lower cap on gain is 0 (which makes sense).

    It took me roughly 500 synths to bind NQ green gear, while wearing 2 aetheryte rings. Lv45 whites (i.e. red coral earring) took roughly half as many synths. I even tried a piece of HQ AF, like I mentioned, but it all gave T3 materia. Still unsure whether quick synthing givees slower spiritbond gain, but it doesn't seem like it (though even if it does, if you have money/materials to burn, you probably just want to avoid doing hundreds of synths manually anyway).

    There is a T4 on auction on my (non-legacy) server though, so there must be a way to get them. Maybe, like you said, it's a chance on the ilvl55 gear?

    Edit: Oh, I should say the numbers I got were with the FC spirit bond bonus up. So normal numbers will be a bit higher.

  14. #114
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelan? View Post
    It took me roughly 500 synths to bind NQ green gear, while wearing 2 aetheryte rings. Lv45 whites (i.e. red coral earring) took roughly half as many synths. I even tried a piece of HQ AF, like I mentioned, but it all gave T3 materia.
    Did you see how much Quick Synthesis gives? 500 is a loooooot of synths... Did you just progress bang those out without messing with quality?

  15. #115
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    I'm almost certain it has to be iLv.55+ to get Tier IV. So, when people finally run out of their 1.0 stockpile of Cracked IV... that shit is going to skyrocket.
    Already seems to be happening on Sargantas.

    Trying to finish off my Carpenter set asap before the prices become a nightmare.

  16. #116
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Did you see how much Quick Synthesis gives? 500 is a loooooot of synths... Did you just progress bang those out without messing with quality?
    I was doing everything with Quick Synth. I tried doing ~10 normal synths, then 10 quick synths and it seemed to give the same amount of progress, but since the exact spiritbond progress is truncated in the UI, I can't say for sure. Would have to try a larger number of manual synths and I didn't really feel like doing that at the time. 99 Quick synths were giving me roughly +17% progress on ingots (+18% on rivets). When I did normal synths, I never did anything with quality, just progress till finished.

    I'll try to get more exact numbers when I do this again.

    Also,

    There is a T4 on auction on my (non-legacy) server though, so there must be a way to get them. Maybe, like you said, it's a chance on the ilvl55 gear?
    Disregard this, I'm retarded and don't read item descriptions.



    But again, this also happened to me last night:



    So, yeah. It's some chance, but it's not anywhere close to guaranteed.

    (also, aetheryte ring is not crafting materia? wut?)

  17. #117
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Is there a lower limit on recipe level that will still give spiritbond? Like how lowbie enemies don't give SB for battle jobs.

    Has anyone else been able to figure out the Control materia cap on HQ Militia offhand? All I could find was that it was 8+, but I think in the current build of the game, the optimal meld for Militia offhand should be [max control] + CP III + Craftsmanship IV in remaining slots (not in that order).

  18. #118
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    (double)

  19. #119
    I like turtles.
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    I'm a 40 GSM, and I'm noticing I'm having a hard time HQ'ing items. I have all the latest gear for my level - http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1202971/

    This is the only DoH I have.

    I'm currently spamming a mythril cuff leve that when I hq i'm getting close to 60k xp. The issue is my quality synths are only gaining me 102, what stat do I go after to up this? Is it control? I've been eating control food but I am not seeing spectacular gains. I plan on leveling all DOH jobs, this however being my first I would like to know how I can maximize my crafting/hq. I did already learn by reading through this that my inner quality can wait up to three full synths to wait for a higher quality to pop. I've got to say this is pretty addicting, and being able to HQ my own jewelry is awesome. I'm shooting for a mythril choker, but haven't been able to HQ one yet.

    Also, what should I be looking for materia wise to socket into my gear?

  20. #120
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadrojj View Post
    This is the only DoH I have.
    This is going to be your main problem. My suggestion is to take every DoH to 15 for the easiest-to-reach cross-class abilities. If you don't want to level them all to 15, the most important Lv15 skills are located in the OP (note that "ALC50" implies the ALC15 ability). Personally, I'm a fan of the LTW15 ability as well, which is not mentioned in the OP.

    Beyond that, you'll just need to find a skill rotation that works best for you and the skills that you have available. Also, you should always use Inner Quiet, even if you don't have the CRP abilities.

    Crafting stats:
    • Craftsmanship - Increases the potency of your progress abilities
    • Control - Increases the potency of your quality abilities
    • CP - Increases your CP so you can use more abilities

    As far as materia and/or food goes, there's really only three choices, each of which shine in their own regard. If you're a couple points of Craftsmanship away from finishing your progress actions a turn early, then that should be your focus; if it's not going to do that for you though, then it's worthless. If you're a couple points of CP shy of optimizing your skill rotation (or adding another ability, etc.), then that should be your focus. If neither of those apply, then push Control, because every point of control directly increases the amount of quality you get.

    Again, the most important things are your cross-class skills. I leveled up BSM to 50 recently, and thanks to my ALC/LTW/WVR/CRP being at 50 (and everything else at 30), HQing things at (and often above) my level was a complete cakewalk. I never bothered to materia my gear until I reached 50.

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