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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Yeah, that's... why I said Sarnga+1, and why SD's question said Sarnga+1. I will edit my post so it says "because it's HQ iLvl70 too" for additional clarification.
    http://xivdb.com/?item/1953/Sarnga

    I just assumed the HQ added 1 or 2 base damage, not 4 to get you to 37. In that case, yeah it's closer; worse than Relic / Allagan as you said but comparable and possibly superior to anything else. Still, you need 9 saps for Sargna; I would just go for the relic and save your philos / money.

    And you can quantify the impact of crit+ on average WS damage, but as Dan mentions, I have no idea how to quantify the secondary impact of the increased BL procs.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfgang View Post
    Still, you need 9 saps for Sargna; I would just go for the relic and save your philos / money.
    NQ Relic is 900 philostones, correct?
    Sarnga is 1125.

    There's a savings there, but not major.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    NQ Relic is 900 philostones, correct?
    Sarnga is 1125.

    There's a savings there, but not major.
    Well yeah, but the relic is definitively better imo; I don't think the extra BLs from the crit+ outweigh the +3 WD.

  4. #184
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    There is also the issue that Sarnga+1:

    a) can be bought/made with gil
    b) is available to help you win hard mode fights

    Additionally, not sure if Sarnga+1 can take DEX melds, but that may be a factor.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    There is also the issue that Sarnga+1:

    a) can be bought/made with gil
    b) is available to help you win hard mode fights

    Additionally, not sure if Sarnga+1 can take DEX melds, but that may be a factor.
    While I was tempted to do that as well, in the end, if you win a titan fight with a sarnga, that means you would have won a titan fight with an ifrit/garuda bow.

    The "help" it gives is so marginal, it really isn't worth the effort.


    Honestly, you'd probably spend less time/money just buying the titan run to get your relic than going the sargna route.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    While I was tempted to do that as well, in the end, if you win a titan fight with a sarnga, that means you would have won a titan fight with an ifrit/garuda bow.
    There's a lot of assumptions built into that statement.

    1) Ifrit and Garuda bows are equivalent
    2) either of those are equivalent to a melded Sarnga+1
    3) you will get a primal bow drop on (one of) your first hard mode win(s)

    I'd say there's a rather large difference between going through Ifrit/Garuda/Titan hard modes once with a weapon you're already holding vs. farming Ifrit and/or Garuda repeatedly hoping for a drop so you can kill Titan.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    There's a lot of assumptions built into that statement.

    1) Ifrit and Garuda bows are equivalent
    No, just that they are good enough. Tons have killed titan with an ifrit bow. Garuda/sarna are nice but not needed.

    2) either of those are equivalent to a melded Sarnga+1
    idk how you even came to that conclusion based on what I said.

    3) you will get a primal bow drop on (one of) your first hard mode win(s)
    It took me about 50 times of fighting ifrit to get the bow. Still better time spent imo than spending 500k on a sargna that probably wasn't going to make me kill titan any sooner.

  8. #188
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    Why didn't you just get a GC bow since it's better than ifrit's bow? (At least it seems that way to me.)

    Or are these legacy problems.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    No, just that they are good enough. Tons have killed titan with an ifrit bow. Garuda/sarna are nice but not needed.
    So why get a relic at all? Buy/make a Sarnga+1 and start using that would-have-been-relic-questing time to farm more stones you can convert into gil (or start farming the coil for Allagan bow).

    It took me about 50 times of fighting ifrit to get the bow. Still better time spent imo than spending 500k on a sargna that probably wasn't going to make me kill titan any sooner.
    So how many philostones could you have farmed in the time it took to fight 50 Ifrits? Enough for a Sarnga, perhaps?

    Again, if you see the difference between Ifrit and melded Sarnga+1 as not a big deal then I'm not sure why you would even bother with a relic in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadgye View Post
    Why didn't you just get a GC bow since it's better than ifrit's bow? (At least it seems that way to me.)
    Can't speak for other GCs, but the Flame GC bow is pretty humble; definitely not better than any primal weapon.

  10. #190
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    It's also definitely not a requirement to need a primal weapon for Titan, assuming you have friends and aren't having to submit to the retarded gear checks most shout groups for him have.

    It's putting excess time and effort into something that will be junked in very little time, considering the relative ease of getting a relic.

  11. #191
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    I don't get it, Relic > Sargna+1 easily and you can beat Titan(and the other's) with a GC bow, why waste time/money on an inferior Bow, that is marginally better then Garuda's?

  12. #192
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    Well, that clinches it. You heard it here. Don't bother upgrading your gear at any point between AF/GC gear and Relic/Allagan/AF+1 unless the gear just drops into your lap. You're wasting your time.

    Melding onto that HQ Gryphonskin? What are you doing? Allagan gear totally trumps that. What a waste of money.

  13. #193
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    Can't speak for other GCs, but the Flame GC bow is pretty humble; definitely not better than any primal weapon.
    Serpent's bow was the one I had in my mind when I said GC bow. Forgot that they were different.

    http://xivdb.com/?item/1946/Serpent-Lieutenant's-Bow
    http://xivdb.com/?item/1950/Ifrit's-Bow

    1dmg, 3dex, 2vit vs 25 crit. And then there's the ease of getting the Serpent GC bow whereas Ifrit has been stingy with me.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadgye View Post
    Why didn't you just get a GC bow since it's better than ifrit's bow? (At least it seems that way to me.)
    Limsa bow def not better than primals ( I had one until ifrit's). I am also not complaining, just stating I'd rather do that than farm CM for tomes for a sargna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    So why get a relic at all? Buy/make a Sarnga+1 and start using that would-have-been-relic-questing time to farm more stones you can convert into gil (or start farming the coil for Allagan bow).
    Wat. I shouldn't get a relic so I don't have to farm primals? What if I don't mind it?


    So how many philostones could you have farmed in the time it took to fight 50 Ifrits? Enough for a Sarnga, perhaps?
    I got three other weapons out of ifrit in the process of getting it, so more like ~12 ifrits per weapon.

    Again, if you see the difference between Ifrit and melded Sarnga+1 as not a big deal then I'm not sure why you would even bother with a relic in the first place.
    I see ifrits/garuda/sargna as stepping stones to get a relic. I see ifrit's/gardua being easier to get and good enough to get to the relic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
    It's also definitely not a requirement to need a primal weapon for Titan, assuming you have friends and aren't having to submit to the retarded gear checks most shout groups for him have.
    This is very true, but not enough of our FC is at titan yet, so we end up joining shouts/DF which yes, it makes it "required" because shouts won't take you without a primal weap, and DF people leave.

  15. #195
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    So there seems to be two lines of thought here:

    1) You don't really need [iLV60/70] bow to get relic
    Hey, if you and your similarly-geared-friends* can kill Titan with AF/GC gear, have at it. No need to discuss anything vs. anything; if you can jump straight from using iLV50 to using iLV80+, good on you.

    2) There's Not a Big Difference between [item X] and [item Y].
    This applies to nearly anything. Particularly given the way gear works in this game (where there are no unique stats), there's no single piece that makes the difference between winning and losing. That being said, good gear is still better than bad gear.

    *I say "similarly geared" because if you aren't similarly geared, then one (or more) of you is just leeching. And it isn't any amazing revelation to find out that the gear of leeches is unimportant.

  16. #196
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    2) There's Not a Big Difference between [item X] and [item Y].
    This applies to nearly anything. Particularly given the way gear works in this game (where there are no unique stats), there's no single piece that makes the difference between winning and losing. That being said, good gear is still better than bad gear.
    I would disagree with this. There is no big difference in going from one tier to the next. ie. there isn't a huge difference between GC to ifrit, or ifrit to garuda. But there is when you skip tiers. If you do have an ifrit's bow, the relic is going to be a big difference because that skips a bunch of tiers. Yet you don't need the tier below relic in order to get the relic.

  17. #197
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    It should also be noted that if you want to get to endgame, you have to beat all the primals once anyways, so why not just get the relic in the process?

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    I shouldn't get a relic so I don't have to farm primals? What if I don't mind it?
    What if I don't mind buying/making a Sarnga+1 and skipping the Ifrit/Garuda bow farming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    There is no big difference in going from one tier to the next. ie. there isn't a huge difference between GC to ifrit, or ifrit to garuda. But there is when you skip tiers.
    HQ meldable iLV70 is effectively 1 tier above non-meldable iLV70 and two tiers above non-meldable iLV60. This applies to gear, as well. So going from Ifrit to Sarnga+1 is effectively skipping a tier, and if you don't have Ifrit yet, going to Sarnga+1 is effectively skipping 2 tiers.

    Furthermore, if moving up one tier is no big difference, and Sarnga+1 is one tier below relic, then can't you buy Sarnga+1 and call your weapon questing done (until Allagan drops)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    It should also be noted that if you want to get to endgame, you have to beat all the primals once anyways, so why not just get the relic in the process?
    This is a sincere question:

    Which (overlapping) parts of the relic quest do you need to complete to enter the Coil?

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    What if I don't mind buying/making a Sarnga+1 and skipping the Ifrit/Garuda bow farming?

    ok? You were the one that came in asking about it...

    I said I thought the same thing initially, then decided it wasn't worth it. And you were the one who came all attacking me in a rant for coming to a different conclusion than you.

    If it's worth it to you, go for it. You don't need my approval, nor did I never suggest as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Well, that clinches it. You heard it here. Don't bother upgrading your gear at any point between AF/GC gear and Relic/Allagan/AF+1 unless the gear just drops into your lap. You're wasting your time.

    Melding onto that HQ Gryphonskin? What are you doing? Allagan gear totally trumps that. What a waste of money.
    Is that what I said? Oh, thanks dude. Spend an entire day farming/melding to get a replaceable bow or spend it getting Relic. hmmm.

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