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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    When it comes to chiptune in video games, the Mega Man series has famously been regarded as high-ranking among the classics. It's an admirable thing, too, especially when you consider that this started on the NES, which only supported five sound channels. The depth and complexity of its tracks made the audio pleasant to hear, and this was in a day and age when it was considered acceptable to complement your game's stages with uninspired beeps and boops, or—at worst—nothing at all. It embodied a level of quality that helped the franchise rocket to stardom.

    Consider: you know the theme songs to "Super Mario Bros." and "The Legend of Zelda," correct? Koji Kondo is considered one of the industry's best composers. Likewise, you would know the music from the Wily stages of "Mega Man 2," wouldn't you? Perhaps not, but the answer to that is more likely yes than no—and that's because of how widely appreciated it is. Now, how many other tracks from that era do you remember? Can you think of any? If so, how many? Do you know them as well?

    To claim that music isn't a contributing factor to the series' fame isn't true, as it's part of the atmosphere. Naturally, if you play everything muted, you wouldn't experience it regardless—but let's say that you don't. Let's say that you listen to everything. If videogame developers didn't care about the aural component at all, then you would have had to listen to something like this:

    You don't have to listen to the music in a game yourself, but to say that it hadn't anything to do with the series' fame is blasphemy.
    I guess this is the result of forums instead of RL. Taking everything too literally? Perhaps, because this is not what I meant at all.

    Saying that it's not the cause of its fame doesn't mean it didn't have anything to do with it. Of course it had SOME cause, but it's not the main cause lol. I'm saying that the game itself and its characters had more to contribute. Because they're so popular, you'd be surprised how difficult it is to find Mega Man/Zero figures in Japan just because of the character itself (at least in Akihabara, but it's possible I missed the proper store to find them since there are so many), unless it's some kind of special event.

    Actually, I know exactly what you're saying. And I do appreciate it, but it's sort of obvious, right?

  2. #42
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    Lol really Kohan? The music is classic, but c'mon man people have all kinds of different reasons to play things. Those earlier games, yeah the music was definitely a bigger part of the whole package. It obviously stopped mattering later down the line for the series as a whole. I know I didn't play Mega Man Zero for the music, because it's fucking terrible.

    But I do know what you are saying on how music can really change the atmosphere of a game. If it wasn't for the amazing tunes and gameplay found in the Ys series, I probably wouldn't have given it a chance.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprias View Post
    Saying that it's not the cause of its fame doesn't mean it didn't have anything to do with it.
    It does, actually. That's what "not" means. It's a negative adverb, and an absolute. It means that whatever it's used in reference to is not something, not that it partially is. If you had said, "the game and its characters are what made MM, though its music played a part," that would have conveyed an entirely different message. Context and word usage matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprias
    Actually, I know exactly what you're saying. And I do appreciate it, but it's sort of obvious, right?
    It isn't as obvious as you may presume, and that's why I can be such a stickler about it. A lot of people state that elements like art direction, music composition, sound effect creation, etc., are unimportant when put up against pure game play. This is wrong, and it has always been wrong. You'll be hard-pressed to find a classic title that didn't shine or at least put up a respectable offering on all of those fronts, and that's because an experience has multiple layers.

    As for music in particular, it's a large part of the experience due to all of the things it can aurally provide: mood, pacing, et cetera. Uninteresting music isn't stimulating, and doesn't help paint a mental picture. Music created by an invested composer who's trying to make the most of limited hardware is something else entirely, especially if they manage to pull off something with interesting instrument travel, hooks, and so on.

    What will you find if you read about the entire MM franchise's history, across all its iterations? Beside comments on gameplay and character design, you'll also find praise for its music. It's a large part that doesn't deserve to be undersold. Composers may not be designing characters and levels, but what they contribute is just as important as palette choices, sprite designs, and everything else, as all of these things come together to deliver the game designer's vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitoshura
    Lol really Kohan? The music is classic, but c'mon man people have all kinds of different reasons to play things.
    I don't see what that has to do with well-rounded design elements, and the quality of music in particular, unless you don't believe that anything can have artistic merit.

  4. #44
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    I didn't even imply that lol. I'm just saying that every Mega Man game doesn't have good music, Mega Man Zero is living proof of this. Despite that, I really enjoyed it.

    Why so defensive over this? I am not disagreeing that music isn't a huge importance when making a game, but sometimes it just isn't there.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitoshura View Post
    I didn't even imply that lol. I'm just saying that every Mega Man game doesn't have good music, Mega Man Zero is living proof of this. Despite that, I really enjoyed it.

    Why so defensive over this? I am not disagreeing that music isn't a huge importance when making a game, but sometimes it just isn't there.
    I don't think you understand the conversation we're having.

    Someone's ability to enjoy a game with the music removed wasn't what started this discussion. The quality of the music in the MM series, particularly the classic one (which Manami Matsumae contributed to), and the significance that music plays in relation to an overall aesthetic, is what we're talking about. To dismiss its significance is to err, as the level of quality that the compositions bore has inspired may game composers since, and it's produced memorable tracks that can be immediately associated with the franchise.

    It doesn't have nearly as much to do with defensiveness as it does design ethics and video game history.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    It does, actually. That's what "not" means. It's a negative adverb, and an absolute. It means that whatever it's used in reference to is not something, not that it partially is. If you had said, "the game and its characters are what made MM, though its music played a part," that would have conveyed an entirely different message. Context and word usage matters.



    It isn't as obvious as you may presume, and that's why I can be such a stickler about it. A lot of people state that elements like art direction, music composition, sound effect creation, etc., are unimportant when put up against pure game play. This is wrong, and it has always been wrong. You'll be hard-pressed to find a classic title that didn't shine or at least put up a respectable offering on all of those fronts, and that's because an experience has multiple layers.

    As for music in particular, it's a large part of the experience due to all of the things it can aurally provide: mood, pacing, et cetera. Uninteresting music isn't stimulating, and doesn't help paint a mental picture. Music created by an invested composer who's trying to make the most of limited hardware is something else entirely, especially if they manage to pull off something with interesting instrument travel, hooks, and so on.

    What will you find if you read about the entire MM franchise's history, across all its iterations? Beside comments on gameplay and character design, you'll also find praise for its music. It's a large part that doesn't deserve to be undersold. Composers may not be designing characters and levels, but what they contribute is just as important as palette choices, sprite designs, and everything else, as all of these things come together to deliver the game designer's vision.



    I don't see what that has to do with well-rounded design elements, and the quality of music in particular, unless you don't believe that anything can have artistic merit.
    You're obviously pretty passionate about it, and frankly I can care less about whether the meaning of "not" is what it is, but "the cause" and "a cause" are definitely two separate things. This might just be my mathematical reasoning rather than the actual English language itself though (as in higher-level Proofs anyway). Furthermore, I don't really care who's right because you know exactly what I'm saying now, and I know what you're saying. Now it's not really an argument, so whatever. lol

    I guess having been in the business myself, it's probably just obvious to me instead of others. Oh well.

    To return to topic, Mighty No. 9 reached it's "Making-of" Documentary goal, and is about $300,000 shy of it's PS3/360/Wii U iterations!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprias View Post
    You're obviously pretty passionate about it, and frankly I can care less about whether the meaning of "not" is what it is, but "the cause" and "a cause" are definitely two separate things. This might just be my mathematical reasoning rather than the actual English language itself though (as in higher-level Proofs anyway). Furthermore, I don't really care who's right because you know exactly what I'm saying now, and I know what you're saying. Now it's not really an argument, so whatever. lol

    I guess having been in the business myself, it's probably just obvious to me instead of others. Oh well.
    To be honest, I'm very sorry to hear that last part. I too work in the video game industry, and have for years. It disappoints me whenever people casually dismiss the importance of various design elements, as that's what leads to the production of lesser quality games. It shouldn't merely be "obvious," but rather, it should be at the forefront, and important.

    It's entirely relevant to this particular topic, too—after all, Inafune specifically left Capcom due to the creatively draining environment that he faced there. This team he's built is invested in creating a quality product that draws on their experience and dedication. It's the very antithesis of not caring about what goes into a game. Music, naturally, is included.

    I wouldn't say that this is so much an argument as it is discourse. "Mighty No. 9" would not exist if it weren't for these sort of ethics.

  8. #48
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    New Stretch Goals:


  9. #49
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    gdi just clicked to post that lol

  10. #50
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    May as well post the details

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...hty-no-9/posts

    Hello, fellow Mighty Beckers!

    Monday. For some of us it means back to school, but for many of us it means back to work -- so we wanted to give you one boss each Monday you’d actually look forward to seeing!

    And our original idea was just that: drop a new, final Mighty No. boss image for you to see each Mighty Boss Monday of our Kickstarter campaign. But given the HUGE response to our design-evolution walkthrough of Mighty No. 5 for the last Comcept Concept Wednesday (still our most commented update so far!), director Koji Imaeda and lead character designer Kimo Kimo volunteered to give you another peek behind the process on how another of our big baddies came about! Take it away, guys:

    PHASE 1: FIRING BLANKS

    Imaeda: As we mentioned in our previous boss design update, part way through the creation of Mighty No. 5, we decided to flesh out the basics of all the other Mighty Numbers. As part of that process, Mighty No. 1's theme was set as "fire."

    We asked Kimo Kimo to come up with a design that was more than just breathing fire, or using a flamethrower, or any of the usual stuff; we wanted his entire body to be like a flaming sun or a furnace -- difficult to even get close to.

    After that, Kimo Kimo and Inafune worked together to develop and refine Mighty No. 1’s look. I've asked Kimo Kimo to provide comments on his illustrations below.


    Kimo Kimo: We’ve been thinking of the Battle Colosseo that the Mighty Numbers fight in as something like a cage deathmatch -- which is where I got the idea for the illustration above on the left: a boxer-type robot, burning with fighting spirit. At this point, I wasn’t officially assigned as the designer for Mighty No. 1, so it was just a rough sketch.

    The images on the right side are from after I took on design responsibilities. Inafune told me that the design didn't have to be humanoid, so I took Imaeda’s ideas literally and came up with sun- and furnace-themed robots.


    Kimo Kimo: Around this time, we starting having trouble on the design for Mighty No. 5 (Note: if you haven't already, see Phase 3 of our update on the making of Mighty No. 5), and decided to set basic designs for all the bosses, so I came up with this wrestler-like body for No. 1. But I still didn’t know exactly what the end-goal was for this boss design, so every day was just non-stop trial and error, over and over. I started having thoughts like, "Well, if the world ended today, at least I wouldn't have to worry about (Mighty No. 1) anymore!" (laughs)

    Inafune asked me to add some kind of special feature to the design, so I came up with this mechanism on the boss’s back that can fire out ropes to create a wrestling ring, and then he could do moves off those ropes. Looking at it again now, I'm surprised I thought something so plain would be a good idea. In retrospect, the whole design was a little too hung-up on the whole wrestling-robot theme.

    PHASE 2: INAFUNE’S SPARK OF INSPIRATION

    Kimo Kimo: When I showed the above illustrations to Inafune, he drew the following sketch as a counter-proposal:


    PHASE 2: INAFUNE’S FEEDBACK:

    “The key element here could be the change in appearance from one form to another: Maybe when he’s on fire, Mighty No. 1 looks big and muscular, but when the fire is extinguished, it turns out he’s actually quite thin, revealing gas burners and such responsible for the massive flames. Gameplay-wise, it’d be fun if Beck, too, would get all bulked-up after he steals this ability and transforms, but then he could turn off the flames to enter smaller passageways.”

    PHASE 3: ALL FIRED UP

    Kimo Kimo: With a clear direction set by Inafune, I changed the main body to have it composed entirely out of flames, and soon, Mighty No. 1’s design was finally complete!


    (above) No. 1 in the nude, as it were (left), and fully ignited (right).

    Kimo Kimo: The roaring flames make the chest area resemble a face, giving No. 1 a very aggressive feel -- but with the fire extinguished, his body brings to mind a gas lantern, or the top part of a (Zippo-style) lighter that actually produces the flame.

    Imaeda: With a design like this, he's dangerous when his body is burning, so perhaps when the flames go out, that's the time to attack. Maybe the flame on his head could be his weak point? Hmm... We’ve still got plenty more to think about!


    (above) On the left, we see the color of his flames change as he takes damage; on the right, we see another view where his inner skeleton is starting to show.

    And that wraps it up for the Mighty Boss Monday portion of our update -- but speaking of having plenty more to think about...

    STRETCH GOAL UPDATE!

    Here is is, folks! We are very proud to announce that, after hours of discussion and some long weekend meetings sifting through and discussing your feedback, different costs, and what the team believes would be best for the game overall, we have our next set of expanded stretch goals! A few notes before we dive into them:

    1. These are not all of our stretch goals! If we’re lucky enough to get through a good number of these goals, we have lots more ideas. We’re up for it if you are!

    2. Handhelds are still a possibility! Just because you don’t see them in this next set of goals doesn’t mean we aren’t working on this. We know many of you have been asking about the possibility of Vita and 3DS versions of Mighty No. 9, so now we know the desire is most definitely there -- what’s left is to figure out if the money and production realities can make this possible. We wish we could say more at this point, but we can say this: There might be other ways to make this happen (besides stretch goals) that we are currently investigating. (Or maybe it will end up being a later stretch goal after all?)

    Either way, we hope to have an update of some kind on this by later next week -- and just to be 100% clear, this is not a confirmation we can or will be able to offer handheld versions, only that we hear your feedback here, and there are some interesting possibilities we are busy looking into!

    3. These new ??? goals are not exactly the same goals as they were before. We think you’ll ultimately agree this isn’t that important in the long run, but we know a good number of people have been curious about what our original two ??? stretch goals were that we ended up moving to make way for cheaper PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U console versions. For those who are still curious, we plan to discuss the evolution of the stretch goals in the next podcast -- but suffice to say, we feel these new ones match better where we are in the campaign now, what we feel is best for the game, and the desires we’ve been hearing through your feedback.

    4. We understand no list of goals and features will make everyone happy, but we hope you understand that we only came up with this list after a lot of careful consideration, balancing the team’s plans for the game, our budget and schedule, and most importantly feedback from all of you! A big part of any major undertaking is inevitably compromise -- something that, as a big, diverse group and extended part of our dev team now, we hope everyone is ready to learn or acknowledge, since we want to continue to be open and honest about every part of the process we can. That said, we are really happy and proud with the list we came up with and we hope you will be, too! :D

    And so, without further adieu:



    $2.0 Million: BONUS Boss Rush Mode!

    That’s right -- we’re adding a stretch goal here without pushing any of the other goals back! (Think of it more like a stretch reward.) After a lot of feedback (which we agreed with) on the big gap before the next goal of PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U console versions, the team really wanted to have something for everyone to aim for and celebrate along the way. So we took our best-bang-for-the-buck potential future goal and will include it as a bonus feature if we can hit $2 million: a separate mode where you can challenge all the Mighty No. Bosses, back-to-back, with a clock ticking to keep track of your best time, so you can share, compare, and show off your skills to your friends!

    $2.4 Million: Challenge Mode!

    Similar to the Challenge Modes in games like New Super Mario Bros. U, this special extra mode would remix parts of existing levels and enemies to create dozens of mini-missions you can use to test your skills in a variety of enjoyably frustrating ways!

    $2.55 Million: Extra End Stage & Boss!

    We’ll add another full stage, complete with an intense, original boss battle (!), to the final area Beck will take on once he defeats the other eight Mighty No. bosses!

    $2.75 Million: BECK & CALL ONLINE CO-OP CHALLENGE MODE!

    We’re excited about all our stretch goals, but even so, this one is really special to us: based on your feedback, we wanted to offer something that both included Call as a playable character and put her on equal footing as Beck, while not breaking our schedule or budget. We also wanted this to be something new -- something the genre has never seen before. And that’s how we came up with this: over a dozen missions you can play online with a friend, playing as Beck and his community-appointed partner, Call! Like the single-player offline challenge Mode, these missions will be parts of levels remixed, but this time around the theme of cooperative play. Players will need to use Beck and Call’s different powers to complement each other and defeat these special challenges!

    $2.9 Million: ???

    TBA ASAP!

    $3.1 Million: ???

    Mysterious mystery is mysterious...

    $3.3 Million: PS4 and XBox One Versions!

    Yes! We heard your calls and are proud to report we can finally offer next-gen versions of Mighty No. 9 here! We know by the time the game ships in 2015, many of you will be proud owners of one next-gen system or the other -- or maybe both! If we reach this level of funding, we can add the PS4 and the Xbox One to the list for every backer getting the digital version of Mighty No. 9 to choose from! To recap, that would mean you could choose one of the following: PC, Mac, Linux, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, PS4, or Xbox One!

    Aaand that’s all for today! As always, let us know what you think -- both of Mighty No. 1 and our new stretch goals -- and know that we will keep doing all we can to make them a reality, but it’s your help that will be the true deciding factor!

    Thanks again from all of us, and hope you enjoyed update #9 on this 9/9 Mighty Day!

    Sincerely,
    - @markmacd (Mighty No. 84), @johntv (Mighty No. 99), and the Mighty No. 9 Team

  11. #51
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    broke 2mil

  12. #52
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    As exciting as this sounds, I'm almost afraid Capcom is going to sue in order to stop it. Remember, they are the ones who sued Data East, saying they infringed on their IP with Fighter's History.

  13. #53
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    I never want to underestimate the complete idiocy of some people/corporations, but I think Capcom knows that they would get a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of blowback if they tried to stop this.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaun View Post
    I never want to underestimate the complete idiocy of some people/corporations, but I think Capcom knows that they would get a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of blowback if they tried to stop this.
    Not only that, but Comcept already offered Capcom their resources for the development of RMD3/MML3, and was denied. If Capcom is not interested in investing any significant resources into MM franchises, I don't know why they would spend money on quashing a spiritual successor instead.

    Unless they're stupid, which is possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaun View Post
    I never want to underestimate the complete idiocy of some people/corporations, but I think Capcom knows that they would get a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of blowback if they tried to stop this.
    As if they're not hated enough for the "DLC" controversy and driving all their employees away. I'll give them another 5 years before they get a new CEO or go belly up.

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    Going belly up might happen sooner rather than later.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...difficult-fy13

    At present, Capcom has just over $152 million in cash, which isn't much for a company attempting to navigate the costly transition to a new hardware generation and the company-wide implementation of a service-based infrastructure.

  17. #57
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    Not only that, but Comcept already offered Capcom their resources for the development of RMD3/MML3, and was denied. If Capcom is not interested in investing any significant resources into MM franchises, I don't know why they would spend money on quashing a spiritual successor instead.

    Unless they're stupid, which is possible.
    Capcom is definitely stupid. They are still of the mentality that "if we don't do it, then none of you can have it either." I almost expect some kinda retaliation from Capcom over this. Regardless, I will throw my money at this project. This shit is awesome.

    (If it matters, the main theme of this new game drew me in instantly.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Capcom is definitely stupid. They are still of the mentality that "if we don't do it, then none of you can have it either."
    Not only that, but as you surely know, they've also been happy to run many of their franchises into the ground, such as RE and DMC. Given that, Mega Man is probably luckier than most realize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    Not only that, but as you surely know, they've also been happy to run many of their franchises into the ground, such as RE and DMC. Given that, Mega Man is probably luckier than most realize.
    things could have been much worse


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    Not only that, but as you surely know, they've also been happy to run many of their franchises into the ground, such as RE and DMC. Given that, Mega Man is probably luckier than most realize.
    Mobile Breath of Fire.

    Mobile. Breath. Of. Fire.

    We're done here.

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