[Guide] Paladin Tanking Compendium (Last update 11/13/13)

[Gilgameshx]

I'll gonna be quite honest, after fighting and observing Garuda HM at number of times as Off-tank, I'm finding this really doubtful that Shield Oath is 2x.

I total 317 STR with Full darklight, Ifrit's Blade, Darklight Shield, and a 20VIT/10STR spec. Other PLD had 308 STR. Same weapon, Same shield, just not full darklight. That's a 9 point difference.

I once again managed to grab hate from the MT, and he was using Fight or Flight at the time (10% Damage increase with Shield Oath up), and I had no buffs whatsoever up. He used his Halone Combo, I used mine right after.

Unless Sword Oath is that fucking good, I'm really doubtful Shield Oath is x2 enmity.

I've been spamming the Garuda fight a lot the last 2 days and I've noticed enmity is very weird with that fight, especially with all the lag spikes during it. I start every fight the same way with shield oath up... Shield lob > scorn and spirits > flash > rampart > halone combo. Out of about 20ish runs, I lost hate at very start to whm twice and sch fairy twice. Two of those times with the whm, I had a full bar of enmity while everyone barely had anything.

I did the same rotations a couple times without shield oath, and my enmity was solid, only difference was damage taken.

[Carth]

Just took hate off a Relic +1 Paladin with 334 Strength by just mimicing his rotation. Whenever I was in Shield Oath, he had a clear lead. When I switched to Sword Oath, I slowly crept up and eventually overtook him. I have Garuda's Gaze.

Shield Oath does not double enmity. I am confident in that now.

[djzombie]

i'm a newer paladin tank(level 38) but have tanked endgame in a few different mmos.

i have a question about the flash diminishing returns. it seems that no matter how long i wait between flash casts it will never be a full 12 seconds of blind unless its the first cast or its been completely resisted.

it seems to go something like 12 > 6 > 3 > 1 > full resist(sometimes twice) and then back to 12.

is there actually a reset timer for flash that i can wait long enough after the first cast to get a full 12 seconds of blind? is it even worth to do so? or is it always effected by diminishing returns so its just better to cast it whenever your enemies aren't effected by blind

[pixelshader]

i'm a newer paladin tank(level 38) but have tanked endgame in a few different mmos.

i have a question about the flash diminishing returns. it seems that no matter how long i wait between flash casts it will never be a full 12 seconds of blind unless its the first cast or its been completely resisted.

it seems to go something like 12 > 6 > 3 > 1 > full resist(sometimes twice) and then back to 12.

is there actually a reset timer for flash that i can wait long enough after the first cast to get a full 12 seconds of blind? is it even worth to do so? or is it always effected by diminishing returns so its just better to cast it whenever your enemies aren't effected by blind

I only flash right after I scorn and I have noticed this as well. I'm not sure what the reset timer is, but apparently 30 seconds is not long enough. I may just have to go through those half lifes to reset.

[Kaelan?]

How do the crafted accessories compare to coil stuff? I.e. for rings, Coil is 15VIT/16 Parry vs. Rose Gold's 10VIT/9 Parry, but you can probably add another 10 STR and DET/DEX with materia. Any idea which would be better?

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Just took hate off a Relic +1 Paladin with 334 Strength by just mimicing his rotation. Whenever I was in Shield Oath, he had a clear lead. When I switched to Sword Oath, I slowly crept up and eventually overtook him. I have Garuda's Gaze.

Shield Oath does not double enmity. I am confident in that now.

I've noticed this too. Off tanks I run with can basically steal hate from me if they're not in shield oath mode even with my relic +1. If it does increase enmity, it doesn't increase it enough to counter balance the -20% damage debuff.

[Obsidian]

The -20% damage taken is enough to negate the -20% damage penalty. The increased enmity is just icing.

[Carth]

No one is saying Shield Oath isn't good, just that it's enmity modifier isn't x2.

[Irvy]

I'll gonna be quite honest, after fighting and observing Garuda HM at number of times as Off-tank, I'm finding this really doubtful that Shield Oath is 2x.

I total 317 STR with Full darklight, Ifrit's Blade, Darklight Shield, and a 20VIT/10STR spec. Other PLD had 308 STR. Same weapon, Same shield, just not full darklight. That's a 9 point difference.

I once again managed to grab hate from the MT, and he was using Fight or Flight at the time (10% Damage increase with Shield Oath up), and I had no buffs whatsoever up. He used his Halone Combo, I used mine right after.

Unless Sword Oath is that fucking good, I'm really doubtful Shield Oath is x2 enmity.

It's actually also happening to me when I tank garuda with a PLD offtank (and I have 481 accuracy with relic sword and relic shield +1, which is the hit cap of binding coil of bahamut). Also, when I offtank Garuda, I must restrain from using the Halone combo at the beginning of the battle in order not to pull agro off the MT (therefore it's not merely a matter of being bad or good).

I'm starting to think that the enmity bonus of shield oath is merely intended to give an enmity bonus on flash and to balance the 20 % DPS loss coming from the stance.

[pixelshader]

How do the crafted accessories compare to coil stuff? I.e. for rings, Coil is 15VIT/16 Parry vs. Rose Gold's 10VIT/9 Parry, but you can probably add another 10 STR and DET/DEX with materia. Any idea which would be better?

The one with more vit is better.

[pixelshader]

No one is saying Shield Oath isn't good, just that it's enmity modifier isn't x2.

Until further data is released we will be going off that japanese blog and valks findings. Regardless of the multiplier nothing changes in the rotation. Both rotations are the highest enmity per GCD.

[Sapphidia]

Until further data is released we will be going off that japanese blog and valks findings. Regardless of the multiplier nothing changes in the rotation. Both rotations are the highest enmity per GCD.

I'm starting to wonder if shield oath IS 2x multiplier but sword oath might have some kind of hidden extra enmity on it.

I know as people in this thread have said many times that the data they have is correct and has been retested, the amount of times i've been able to compare two paladins in near-equal gear doing near-equal rotations and seeing the Sword Oath offtank having the faster threat generation is quite high. There's definitely something weird going on with it. Maybe the extra 50 potency attacks have an enmity boost on them. I'll grab a paladin friend over the next day or two and do some testing.

Obviously yes, it doesnt make a huge difference because you'll -always- be in Shield Oath when tanking anything which does damage to you, but it would be nice to get the relative difference confirmed.

[dogtime]

I'm starting to wonder if shield oath IS 2x multiplier but sword oath might have some kind of hidden extra enmity on it.

I know as people in this thread have said many times that the data they have is correct and has been retested, the amount of times i've been able to compare two paladins in near-equal gear doing near-equal rotations and seeing the Sword Oath offtank having the faster threat generation is quite high. There's definitely something weird going on with it. Maybe the extra 50 potency attacks have an enmity boost on them. I'll grab a paladin friend over the next day or two and do some testing.

Obviously yes, it doesnt make a huge difference because you'll -always- be in Shield Oath when tanking anything which does damage to you, but it would be nice to get the relative difference confirmed.

Whats hard to understand? In Shield oath you do 20% less damage and generate 20% more hate so it's the same single target enmity as having no stance at all (outside of flash). Sword oath adds extra damage on top of that so of course its better single target hate than shield oath.

[Carth]

Whats hard to understand?

Whoosh.

The problem is in Phase 3 and Phase 4 it was tested that Shield Oath is an x2 multiplier to everything, and there hasn't been a major test ever since then.

Obviously, it's not an x2 multiplier (anymore), but Valk's data is still being used as a reference until further testing disproves his chart.

[cute]

With Shield Oath's damage reduction, wouldn't it only be like 1.6x modifier in the end compared to Sword Oath?

[Viertel]

No one is saying Shield Oath isn't good, just that it's enmity modifier isn't x2.

Whoosh.

The problem is in Phase 3 and Phase 4 it was tested that Shield Oath is an x2 multiplier to everything, and there hasn't been a major test ever since then.

Obviously, it's not an x2 multiplier (anymore), but Valk's data is still being used as a reference until further testing disproves his chart.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. No one gives a shit about anecdotal evidence; go test and give conclusive proof or shut up.

Just took hate off a Relic +1 Paladin with 334 Strength by just mimicing his rotation. Whenever I was in Shield Oath, he had a clear lead. When I switched to Sword Oath, I slowly crept up and eventually overtook him. I have Garuda's Gaze.

Shield Oath does not double enmity. I am confident in that now.

I'm confident that tank fucking sucked and that's the ONLY conclusion you can draw from that situation if you're using an Ifrit's Blade. "Same rotation" means jack if you're not slamming, trying to weave too many non-GCDs in between two, or your DTR sucks ass.

[Ferien]

With Shield Oath's damage reduction, wouldn't it only be like 1.6x modifier in the end compared to Sword Oath?

To be pedantic, no. The modifier is applied to abilities and spells as well, so it'd just confuse the matter to say it's just 1.6x. When discussing the Halone combo, you're effectively right, though.

I'm curious, though, how much of the damage formula is known already. From what I'm reading right now (http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...hanics_enmity/, posted by Valk), it seems like the +50 potency from Sword Oath would be a pretty significant increase to AA damage.

Gah, so much to test, so little time.

[Weltall]

I'm confident that tank fucking sucked and that's the ONLY conclusion you can draw from that situation if you're using an Ifrit's Blade. "Same rotation" means jack if you're not slamming, trying to weave too many non-GCDs in between two, or your DTR sucks ass.

I am here to agree with this. There is no way you would take hate off me as an Ifrit's Blade PLD.

[Jem]

If you're going to blast the guy, at least read his post. You guys didn't even read his weapon correctly. Your point may or may not still be correct but Garuda's Gaze is a decent step up from Ifrit's.

[VentusInvictus]

http://ventusinvictus.blogspot.com/2...din-guide.html

Have been testing base Enmity and Shield Oath for a long time folks. Haven't presented information because there is just some things I cannot figure out, maybe I am missing it. The above post serves as 3 things.

A guide for Paladin
A comparison of why we are superior to Warrior in Coil
How Enmity and Shield Oath are completely broken and the table found here: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231 is misleading as fuck.

Edit: Hell the Dancing-mad table is just wrong not misleading.